Fluffy Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 [hv=pc=n&w=sak3hdaq642ck7532&e=sqht8532d93cat864&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1dp1hp2cppp]266|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanoff Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 East needs to be a little more courteous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbenvic Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 East needs to be a little more courteous. LOL. I don't play strong jump shifts here (prefer 3♣ from opener as splinter agreeing ♥) so 2♣ is forcing. Even playing 2♣ as non forcing 5 trumps a singleton and a doubleton makes this on shape alone worth a kick to 3♣ Not sure how the bidding goes after 3♣ but you at least get to game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 1♦-1♥2♣-3♣ is beyond obvious, blame 100%E Playing standardish methods I would continue: 3♠-4♣4♦-4♠(bypassing hearts so now you can blackwood with no ambiguity)4N-5♦(1/4)5♥(Q ?) and now it's simply a question of whether E shows the Q holding a 5th one which I don't think he should so you stop in 6 (we play 2♣ forcing if you had a 1♥ bid, which with the 5th club you certainly do once partner bids them and the auction would develop somewhat differently due to 4♦ being kickback) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 This one is pretty obvious. Fluffy certainly knows the answer, wonder why he posted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Obviously E was the Walrus came up with his point count and passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Obviously E was the Walrus came up with his point count and passed.With 5 card support and this distribution, someone might refer to him as a different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Are E/W playing Gazzilli? That's the only reason I can think of for W to have bid differently (though he probably still wouldn't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I asked some international players/teachers in my area, they as me expect a 3♣ raise to be 9-11, perhaps with a good 8, but never to be heard with a 6 count. Seems that all players in my area are away from standard :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I don't think E's decision is nearly as clear as people in this thread are making out (presumably P nrmally bids 3N with a 2254 15 count and a spade stop?). But if anyone's going to do more bidding, it's him, so it seems like a weird atb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I don't think E's decision is nearly as clear as people in this thread are making out (presumably P nrmally bids 3N with a 2254 15 count and a spade stop?). But if anyone's going to do more bidding, it's him, so it seems like a weird atb. He opened 1N with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I asked some international players/teachers in my area, they as me expect a 3♣ raise to be 9-11, perhaps with a good 8, but never to be heard with a 6 count. Seems that all players in my area are away from standard :)Point counters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbenvic Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Point counters. Even point counters should call this an 8 count, 4 for the Ace, 3 for the singleton and 1 for the doubleton. That's 8 with 5 card support. Even if pards is capable of being cheeky with only 3 ♣ I still raise, without any qualms whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 He opened 1N with that If you open 1N with Kx xx AQxxx KQJx, I hope your system card notes that you open all 22(45) and presumably all (24)(25) hands 1N. Last I heard it wasn't 'expert standard' to do so with a small doubleton, good long suits and an easy rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 If you open 1N with Kx xx AQxxx KQJx, I hope your system card notes that you open all 22(45) and presumably all (24)(25) hands 1N. Last I heard it wasn't 'expert standard' to do so with a small doubleton, good long suits and an easy rebid. I don't but I play a weak NT. My experience suggests that this is done more often with a strong no trump although I'm not sure why, maybe because you're more likely to have both majors stopped and also because Acol instinctively treats 5422s as unbalanced while US systems don't so much. We rarely open 5422s 1N but when we do it tends to be 22(54)s and our system doesn't cater for this in any way, it assumes at least one 3 card major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyC Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'll join the "3C is automatic" camp. On the auction, partner will usually hold a spade fragment (and hence very short hearts) so all of our values are well placed and game prospects are excellent. Opposite a minimum hand with some extra distribution such as: [KJx --- Axxxx KQxxx], and the opponents will probably need to lead a diamond to beat 6 clubs! Another point in favour of bidding that no-one has mentioned is that if we pass, the bidding isn't over. Unless partner has some serious values, the opponents will almost always have a profitable partscore in spades. If South is sitting on decent hand with a heart stack and no convenient way to enter the auction they could easily be making game. Even if 3c leads to a negative score, it might be turn out to be a very cheap 'advanced sacrifice'. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 If neither opponent could find a 1♠ overcall, it's not going to be trivial for them to enter the non-fit auction at the two level. We could still have 7 spades between us, a misfit and c26HCP for all either opp knows. I would prob bid, tbh. I just think if W held the hand I gave above, and 3N: ATB was the thread, we know who'd be getting the blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I am a tad surprised to see so many 3c bidders. IMHO the best bid would appear to be 4c. Big trump fit and not a whole lot else and the type of hand that would make 3n a very low % chance opposite even a max 2c bid. 3c should have more stuff and 3n should not really be out of the picture opposite a max 2c bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 If you open 1N with Kx xx AQxxx KQJx, I hope your system card notes that you open all 22(45) and presumably all (24)(25) hands 1N. Last I heard it wasn't 'expert standard' to do so with a small doubleton, good long suits and an easy rebid. A fair number of folks will, including me. You get nice negative inferences if you treat your balanced hands differently from those with stiffs. Plus it is usually a big win to bid 1nt on any excuse. You communicate a lot to partner, have good constructive auctions, are well placed in competition, and have effectively preempted the opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't think E's decision is nearly as clear as people in this thread are making out (presumably P nrmally bids 3N with a 2254 15 count and a spade stop?).If it goes like that, East doesn't have to pass 3NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I like easts pass of 2C, the range is just too wide/impossible for partner if we are raising with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akwoo Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 If you are really concerned about this hand, you can adopt the K-S treatment where, after a 1♦ opening, a 3♣ rebid shows a weak 5-5 (usually) hand, and the 2♣ rebid shows reverse strength. That probably works better with a weak NT, but I don't think it's terrible with a strong NT. I don't see any other solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar13 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I would have bid 3♣ with either East or West, both a shade under strength, but reasonable because this hand probably won't play in 3NT anyway--the question is how we get to 6♣ (examples given upthread). If we don't have the stuff for six we play 5♣, no disaster here even at match points as 3NT is very unlikely to make an overtrick if it makes at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I've been pondering over this hand for a while and haven't posted 'til now because of it. My first and continuing impression is that this hand is a tough one. West has a big hand -- 16 HCP, 4 QTs, 4 unadjusted losers. But the ♣ suit is a bit anemic -- K high and no spots. I suppose you might adjust the losers for the actual honors held and make it a 5 loser hand (1 1/2 in ♦ and 2 1/2 in ♣). Is the hand good enough to make a jump to 3 ♣? I'm not sure it is. But 2 ♣ looks like an underbid. OTOH, 3 ♣ is forcing on partner and may get you too high especially opposite a non fitting minimum response. If responder has something like xxx KQxxx xx xxx, then 3 ♣ may be the limit of the hand. East barely has a response. IMO, the stiff ♠ Q isn't worth much more than its singleton value unless opener shows something in ♠. So, I'd be bidding 1 ♥ more as protection against ending up in a 4-2 or 3-2 ♦ fit than anything else. When opener rebids 2 ♣, the hand does improve quite a bit. The doubleton ♦ is a plus opposite opener's known length. So is the extra length in ♣. But the value, if any, for the stiff ♠ Q beyond being a singleton is still in doubt. If you reevaluate solely on the ♣ A and distribution points -- 3 for the stiff and 1 for the doubleton, you're at about an 8 value hand. Maybe you make it an 8+ to reflect the possible value for the ♠ Q if opener has something in ♠. I think that puts the hand on the cusp of a 3 ♣ raise. Opposite a minimum opener like Ax xx AJxxx Kxxx, 3 or 4 ♣ might be the limit of the hand. Part of the decisions that either player makes have to do with how forcing 2 ♣ is also. Here in the US, quite a few players will play the 2 ♣ rebid as non-forcing especially at matchpoints. Then a raise to 3 ♣ has to be invitational. OTOH, if the 2 ♣ rebid is absolutely forcing, then opener has to allow for the occasional hand such as East's hand where the raise might be made on less than invitational values. What either player does depends both on their agreements and each player's knowledge of their partner's bidding tendencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) One reason for East to raise is the fact that nobody has bid spades. If the opponents had ten spades, one of them would probably have bid them, so partner is likely to be 3154 or 3055. Opposite those shapes we don't need that much for game. A hand like KJx x AQxxx KQxx makes 5♣ good. Edited December 6, 2015 by gnasher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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