help with a continuation

[straube]

In the context of a strong club system and a 1D weak or strong response and a few relays we get to...

 

2H-opener forces with 5+S/4+H

.....2S-GF relay

 

and

 

2S-opener forces with 4S/5+H

.....2N-GF relay

 

So we have an easy +1 relay when responder holds a strong hand. We have all of the other bids available for double negative (0-4 hcp) hands. Any ideas?

 

The obvious over 2H would be

 

2N-bleh

3m-6m

3M-fit and very minimum

 

but I think opener will be very seldom interested in hearing about responder's long and weak minor. Instead, he'd want to know degree of fit, fit and splinter info, perhaps a working

card (like the spade Q or heart K or even any ace). These 2M rebids come up seldom so I'm looking for something useful and easy to remember. A "weak" relay?

[Kungsgeten]

Over 2H it seems that you could play Lebensohl and use the 3-level as support showing.

 

2H---

2S = GF relay

2N = Lebensohl

...3C = The usual bid

......Pass = Long clubs, no fit

......3D = Long diamonds, no fit

......3M = Preference, can be 7 card fit

...Other = GF? Not sure

3C = Heart fit + some SPL, not dead minimum but not GF (relay asks SPL)

3D = Spade fit + some SPL, not dead minimum but not GF (relay asks SPL)

3M = 8+ fit, no SPL, non-forcing but not dead minimum (goes via 2NT)

 

More complicated would be to play a form of transfer Lebensohl:

 

2H---

2S = GF relay

2N = Weak with clubs / support with club SPL / dead minimum major preference

...3C = Normal bid

......Pass = Long clubs

......3D = Dead minimum, puppet to 3H

......3M = Natural + club SPL

3C = Weak with diamonds / support with diamond SPL

3D = Weak with major fit and SPL in other major. 3M is pass/correct

3M = Weak with 8+ fit, no SPL, not dead minimum

[straube]

Thank you. I think using your corresponding minor idea would be easy to remember.

 

Maybe

 

2N-no fit

.....3C-5413, 5404, or 5422, nf

.....3D-5431, nf

.....3H-5/5, nf

.....3S-6/4, nf

3C-GF, heart fit

3D-GF, spade fit

3M-fit, truly nothing

4M-fit, a little more than nothing

 

I'd thought of using 4m as splinters, but the most likely splinter to have is opener's other major. So a little tricky to show fit for one major and shortness the other major at the same time.

[benlessard]

"but I think opener will be very seldom interested in hearing about responder's long and weak minor."

 

Strongly disagree.

 

Opener will most likely be 5431/6421/5521 vs those hand type knowing responder long minor will often make a difference.

 

It also allow you to get some 5m or play 3NT without a stopper. The thing I dont care is stopping at 3M. Assuming that by opener strong hand is 22+. If opener can have only 20 pts its important to stop in 2M or at least to 2S so 2S cant be a relay IMO.

 

2NT= GF

3m= natural weakish

3M = weak hand but showing the best minor (stopper hopefully) and no fit.

4 level = weak hand with M fit.

 

If you really want to stop in 3M I suggest 3D as a force to 3H to singoff in 3M.

Something like 3NT directly crap with both minors, 3D-3H-3NT crap but tolerance for majors.

[straube]

We have a way to stop in 2M with a minimum 5+/4 or 4/5+ so a hand that fears play opposite a 0-4 hand can suggest a timely stop.

 

Specifically, 1C-1D, 2H shows 5S/4H minimum and 1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2H shows 4S/5H minimum. In those instances, 3m by responder shows a long minor and a weak hand.

 

Now the other day I had a 6S/5H hand that was not much more than minimum in hcps but I wanted to force game. Our auction went

1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2C-2D, 2H-3D, 4S

 

where 2H showed the forcing hand with 5+S/4+H and 3D showed 0-4 with long diamonds. In this case pd has something like KTxxxx for diamonds and I wasn't interested in his suit at all.

I would rather have known if pd had (for example) 1-3 in the majors (potential ruff a spade), etc.

 

I.e. often our "forcing 2M" hands have extra distribution and not necessarily extra hcps.

 

At the point of 2H, we need 2S to be GF relay to stay at +1. The idea of "forcing both majors" at the point of 2H is opener isn't afraid of the 3-level.

 

Hopefully this explains more of what we're doing. Still looking for ideas.

[straube]

Anyone like...

 

After 1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2C-2D, 2H showing 5+S/4+H GI+

 

.....2S-GF relay

.....2N-0-4, other

.....3C-0-4, 2 spades

.....3D-0-4, 3 hearts and 0-1 spades

.....3M-0-4, fit and very weak, no rough of other major

 

After 1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2C-2D, 2S showing 4S/5+H GI+

 

.....2N-GF relay

.....3C-0-4, other

.....3D-0-4, 2H

.....3M-0-4, fit and very weak, no rough of other major

[straube]

I think you folks are right. I've been looking at hands and seems responder needs a way to show a long minor. So after 2H showing 5+S/4+H we have 2N as misfitting with no long minor

and 3m as responder's own suit.

 

 

The frustrating thing is that at the point of 2S showing 4S/5H that I'd like to keep 2N as a gf relay and that doesn't leave a weak misfitting bid without a long minor. We could use

3C as bleh and 3D as diamonds and be able to show at least one.