Fluffy Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 [hv=pc=n&e=sa952haq9853dk72c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1dp1hp1sp]133|200[/hv] Partner could still be balanced, options now are basically 4♣ splinter (could be followed by 5♣ exclusion), 2♦ XYZ Game forcing relay or 3X natural GF slam try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 You are slightly hamstrung by system here, it's much easier if 2♣ is simple 4th suit and 3♣ a splinter, also if you knew partner was unbalanced. Clearly you don't want to agree spades too early, partner could easily have something like Kxxx, Kx, AQJxx, xx which plays better in diamonds or hearts. I guess 2♦ to start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'd go with 2D also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Love XYZ so lets get more info and bid 2♦ here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Love XYZ so lets get more info and bid 2♦ here. XYZ is terrible for GF hands, as per Cyberyeti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 partner will rebid 2NT showing 4243 with club stopper or something like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 nonexpert here 4c granted I have huge hand that pard will not know I think 2d gf on this deal just complicates.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 aArtner will rebid 2NT showing 4243 with club stopper or something like.Can he also be 4153, or would that hand do something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 4♣ splinter (could be followed by 5♣ exclusion) Hijacking the topic for a moment, under what circumstances would your 5♣ rebid be exclusion after the splinter? Only on your subsequent bid/on any later bid (except an RKCB response)/other? I've not heard of non-jump exclusion before, but it sounds like a useful gadget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 aArtner will rebid 2NT showing 4243 with club stopper or something like. What's the difference between 3♥ now and 3♥ instead of 2♦ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Fluffy, I follow Cyberyeti's method where 3♣ here would be a splinter. Therefore 4♣ exclusion - what I want to bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 [hv=pc=n&e=sa952haq9853dk72c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1dp1hp1sp]133|200[/hv] Partner could still be balanced, options now are basically 4♣ splinter (could be followed by 5♣ exclusion), 2♦ XYZ Game forcing relay or 3X natural GF slam try.Am I the only seeing that Fluffy has posted the East hand? Should that hand not be South? [hv=pc=n&s=sa952haq9853dk72c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1dp1hp1sp]133|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Am I the only seeing that Fluffy has posted the East hand? Should that hand not be South? [hv=pc=n&s=sa952haq9853dk72c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1dp1hp1sp]133|200[/hv] Yeah man I don't know how anyone managed to respond to the question with that crucial error. It's on par with responding to a 12 card hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 What's the difference between 3♥ now and 3♥ instead of 2♦ ? 3♥ delayed suggest trumps, direct would impose it. If you try it partner bids 4♣ control implying ♥Hx, not denying spade control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Can he also be 4153, or would that hand do something else? Good clubs and bad diamonds yes, but normally 2♠ with that shape. (3♦ with very good suit also possible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 3♥ delayed suggest trumps, direct would impose it. If you try it partner bids 4♣ control implying ♥Hx, not denying spade control. When you say Hx is Jx enough or is H AKQ ? If I can be sure of ♥Kx I bid 4♦. Do I have any clue about partner's range yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 [hv=pc=n&s=sa952haq9853dk72c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1dp1hp1sp]133|200[/hv] Partner could still be balanced, options now are basically 4♣ splinter (could be followed by 5♣ exclusion), 2♦ XYZ Game forcing relay or 3X natural GF slam try.If partner holds ♠KQ and ♥K, these hands fit like a glove. Unfortunately bridge is an imperfect information game short of peeking there is no way of knowing the pertinent information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 When you say Hx is Jx enough or is H AKQ ? If I can be sure of ♥Kx I bid 4♦. Do I have any clue about partner's range yet ?Partner has 12-14 balanced. ♥9x would be enough if he feels rest of his hand is very good in context for playing hearts, but normally ♥Kx or ♥Jx is to be expected. Partner will keep cuebidding, 4♠ for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 XYZ is terrible for GF hands, as per CyberyetiWould you mind elaborating a bit why you think XYZ is terrible for GF hands?Which alternatives are better? Rainer Herrmanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Would you mind elaborating a bit why you think XYZ is terrible for GF hands?Which alternatives are better? Rainer Herrmanno In this sequence it probably doesn't matter, but being able to bid 2♦ over 2♣ 4SF rather than having to bid over 2♦ could make a lot of difference in terms of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 In this sequence it probably doesn't matter, but being able to bid 2♦ over 2♣ 4SF rather than having to bid over 2♦ could make a lot of difference in terms of space.I understand that. This is not too difficult to grasp. But what do you suggest instead? 1) If 2♣ is game forcing the question arises what do you do with invitational hands? It is nice being able to stop in 2♠ with 4 card support and an invitational hand or in 2♥ with hearts and an invitational hand. 2) If 2♣ is not game forcing, there must be non forcing sequences thereafter. Does this not defeat the advantage of being one step lower with a game forcing hand? For example: How do I distinguish a game forcing hand with hearts from one with invitational values thereafter, if the bidding starts 1?♦-1♥-1♠-2♣-2♦?If I have to jump to 3♥ with a game force where is the advantage? Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I understand that. This is not too difficult to grasp. But what do you suggest instead? 1) If 2♣ is game forcing the question arises what do you do with invitational hands? It is nice being able to stop in 2♠ with 4 card support and an invitational hand or in 2♥ with hearts and an invitational hand. 2) If 2♣ is not game forcing, there must be non forcing sequences thereafter. Does this not defeat the advantage of being one step lower with a game forcing hand? For example: How do I distinguish a game forcing hand with hearts from one with invitational values thereafter, if the bidding starts 1?♦-1♥-1♠-2♣-2♦?If I have to jump to 3♥ with a game force where is the advantage? Rainer Herrmann We play it non GF but we play 1♦-1♥-1♠-2♥ as inv so going thru 4SF is forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 2♣ is the best bid. We want to know if partner has wasted values in clubs. 3♣ or 2NT by opener means there are wasted club values. We should just show the spade support and allow opener to make moves towards slam.Other rebids by opener means all HCP are working. ♠ KQxx ♥ Kx ♦ QJxx ♣ xxx Isn't this a nearly 50% chance for slam? And opener rates to hold a better hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Sorry,I'm not expert.It should say that XYZ convention still is a expert bidding tool.For this hand,it would better employ XYZ and bid 2♦ to make a system bid of game forcing,its advantange is obviously :1- GF and save room,let opener describe in further.2- investigate whether opener has 3-card support in ♥.3- 1♦ - 1♥1♠1♠ says " I have a unbalanced hand",so responder should conform whether voidness is valid and also need to reevaluate both of hands so as to probe for slam or sign off at 4M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 2♣ is the best bid. We want to know if partner has wasted values in clubs. 3♣ or 2NT by opener means there are wasted club values. We should just show the spade support and allow opener to make moves towards slam.Other rebids by opener means all HCP are working. ♠ KQxx ♥ Kx ♦ QJxx ♣ xxx Isn't this a nearly 50% chance for slam? And opener rates to hold a better hand.Sorry,I'm not expert.If really holding ♠ KQxx ♥ Kx ♦ QJxx ♣ xxx,after responding 1♥,opener would better rebid 1nt to show the balanced hand instead of 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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