Are you constrained?

[jillybean]

Another question. As a director when polling players do you include the fact that you have UI from partner's BIT or do you present the problem as a pure bidding question?

[aguahombre]

Another question. As a director when polling players do you include the fact that you have UI from partner's BIT or do you present the problem as a pure bidding question?

A poll should be to determine if the action taken has a logical alternative. No, the information about a BIT has nothing to do with whether there is an alternative. If there is an alternative, then we need to decide if the action taken could have been suggested rather than the alternative by the UI. The poll is not about what is suggested; it is about alternatives --- whether they exist.

 

Of course, anyone with an IQ above their shoe size will know why you are asking the question; but so what?

[barmar]

Although after asking the question without mentioning the BIT, to determine the LAs, a TD who is unsure what the BIT suggests might then ask a followup question about what the pollee thinks the BIT suggests about partner's hand.

 

If there were enough time and pollees, it would probably be better to do these as two separate polls, so that the answer to one question doesn't bias the answer to the other. But that's probably not practical in most cases.

[mycroft]

Yeah, I don't think anybody thinks that 2♠ isn't "demonstrably suggested by the unauthorized information". And it clearly will almost certainly work better than anything else. So it all boils down to "would a significant number of the player's peers think about passing this, and would a non-trivial number of them actually do it?" If the answer is "yes", then we roll back to 1NT making whatever. If the answer is "no", then we let 2♠ stand.

 

And the difficulty is, of course, determining the player's peers. I argued that I am highly likely to be not one because I play a weak NT by preference, and have a *lot* more experience than most with these auctions. I would also argue that it is likely I would open this hand, even at these colours, at MPs. My *guess* is that I'm also not likely to be this player's peer in sheer experience and play level (and neither would most of the commenters here) - but it could turn out that I'm wrong. [Edit: I am reminded that this is Flight A NAP final. Ignore this. Still, I wonder how you get to either 2500 MPs or "happy playing against minimum 2500 MPs" without knowing what to do over a weak NT with a borderline call. Oh wait, no I don't - they've learned exactly how to.]

 

I will say that were I to be playing with not my regular partners, I would treat this as a teaching moment of the "Sorry, partner, from your manner I thought *you* had it!" genre. I'd pass and once partner sees the bad score, explain that "you have to learn to pass flat 11s routinely. If you tell me bidding is safe with your hesitation, the TD will take a good score away from me if I bid, and let me have a bad one." Even though this hand is in fact borderline safe (which means that we think that bidding is "well, I can *see* people thinking about passing, but nobody's really doing to do it, right?"), it's also borderline "teachable".

[jeffford76]

I will say that were I to be playing with not my regular partners, I would treat this as a teaching moment of the "Sorry, partner, from your manner I thought *you* had it!" genre. I'd pass and once partner sees the bad score, explain that "you have to learn to pass flat 11s routinely. If you tell me bidding is safe with your hesitation, the TD will take a good score away from me if I bid, and let me have a bad one." Even though this hand is in fact borderline safe (which means that we think that bidding is "well, I can *see* people thinking about passing, but nobody's really doing to do it, right?"), it's also borderline "teachable".

 

I'm not sure people playing in a Flight A NAP final will take well to their non-regular partner trying to teach them. :)

[mycroft]

Argh, NAP final. Read the opening post again every once in a while, Mycroft.

 

Having said that, the day I play with a non-regular partner in the NAP district A final is probably the day I will in fact not make a bid with a borderline-with-UI hand after partner tanks. Do I really want to play with someone who plays WeaSeL/weak NT in the national finals?

[barmar]

Still, I wonder how you get to either 2500 MPs or "happy playing against minimum 2500 MPs" without knowing what to do over a weak NT with a borderline call. Oh wait, no I don't - they've learned exactly how to.]

I have about 3700 MP, but around a third of them are from playing BBO robot duplicates. I don't do at all well when playing against real flight A players.

[nige1]

It's clear from this thread that I am reading too much into the laws in that I must "carefully avoid taking any advantage of the unauthorized information." In my inexperienced opinion, my decision not to pre-empt in first seat has now become a clear decision to bid after partner has hitched. If it is a marginal preempt then isn't the marginal

2 level over call influenced by the UI that partner has some values?

I like Jillybean's argument. Possible results from a poll of other players shouldn't be relevant to her decision. For Jillybean, herself ...

• This hand was inadequate for a 2♠ opening.
• Now, Pass is a logical alternative
• Partner's hesitation makes a protective 2♠ safer.
• QED

[jillybean]

This is exactly what I am talking about here

 

http://bridgewinners.com/article/view/hand-from-reisinger/

[Manastorm]

I bid 2♠ always, if it is rolled back, I think people are crazy. 3♠ is taking advantage of the BIT, because I am placing partner solid opening

values based on the BIT. I am not sure what hand partner is expected to have, but it must be close to an opening hand. I feel any action, which is based on

large deviation from it wihtout BIT is suspectful.

[Manastorm]

I add that I am in the camp: if nobody actually passes without BIT, pass can't be logical alternative.

I continue that people should change their system, if the hand can't be opened. Some values, awesome spade suit, shortness

and I want to let opponents bid their hand freely?

Edited December 15, 2015 by Manastorm