Mbodell Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 IMP pairs. [hv=pc=n&s=sj96hjt7dj98cq952&w=sq83hk963dakq72ca&n=s5hq542dt54ck8743&e=sakt742ha8d63cjt6&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d(precision)dp4sppp]399|300[/hv] No other pair faced opponent bidding and half ended in 6♠ making 7 and half in 7♠ so 4♠+3 was -12.5 IMP (and perhaps contributed to the overly aggressive action that produced a -870 on the next board for another -12.5 IMP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Depends how you play the 4S jump (e.g. should East have started with 2D instead?), but assuming this is a normal "game going values with 5+ spades" bid, West should be heading to slam for sure. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Maybe West could still have made a move but I don't like East's 4♠ bid. Even if this doesn't strictly show a weak hand with 7-8 spades (matter of agreement), three keycards is too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 East is too strong to just blast 4S IMO. He hasnt had the chance to pass so 4S is what you bid with like KJ9xxx Qx xxx xx or something. West has a normal pass of 4S opposite an expected 4S bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think East should start with a 2 ♦ cue, then bid 4 ♠ over West's 2 NT call (showing 19+ and ♦ stopper). I know 1 ♦ doesn't necessarily show ♦. But if the double is a take out of 1 ♦, 2 ♦ still needs to be the cue showing values. After 4 ♠, East can use RKCB and 0/3 response must 3, so at least 6 ♠ is an easy call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Agree East should take it slower but we still have a small slam without the ♥A so West gets a charge too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Agree East should take it slower but we still have a small slam without the ♥A so West gets a charge too.Like this? :huh: [hv=pc=n&s=sj96hjt7dj98cq952&w=sq83hk963dakq72ca&n=s5haq54dt54ck8743&e=sakt742h82d63cjt6&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d(precision)dp4sp6sppp]399|300[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Wow, precision 1D opening standards have dropped. edit: oh just saw the subtitle, hah. did he really psych in first seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Too much leaping to game with WAY too much strength. 100% east, they must have a train to catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Like this? :huh: [hv=pc=n&s=sj96hjt7dj98cq952&w=sq83hk963dakq72ca&n=s5haq54dt54ck8743&e=sakt742h82d63cjt6&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d(precision)dp4sp6sppp]399|300[/hv] Are we really supposed to be playing opener for a first seat psyche? The K♥ looks to me like a sure trick opposite xx, so while E should have done something more encouraging, I think W was really wet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 edit: oh just saw the subtitle, hah. did he really psych in first seat? Yes. Good timing from Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasetb Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Honestly, I am surprised by not only the votes for West, but also WHO voted for them. East not only has 12 HCP, but 12 PRIME HCP + SHAPE. Let's make West cuckoo, and give him/her ♠xxxx ♥Kxxx ♦x ♣AQxx . On the same auction (1♦) - X - (P) - ??? , I expect South to have a huge hand, so the King is in the hole, and 6♠ comes home ON 21 HCP!!! Heck, give West any of a bunch of standard minimum takeout doubles, and you have great play or are cold for slam. As is, if East just makes the normal 2♦ cuebid, they SHOULD get to 7♠. The reason I don't blame West is that I would expect something like a pre-emptive sort of hand, maybe a hand with lots of soft values, and definitely denying 2+ Key Cards, for East's 4♠ bid. So, even with that monster of a hand, by my definition you will be off 2 tricks, so no point in West looking for slam. Zel, I have a problem with your example hand. Not only would I never expect South to psyche in 1st seat, but North clearly has a responding hand, and might even take 2 bids looking for a resting spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Some thoughts:1) Psyching 1♦ Precision is legal only if the bid promises 3+ cards. Otherwise the opening is illegal and penalties should apply.2) Defending 1♦, play the cue bid as natural, 2♥ as weak Michaels, and 3♦ as strong Michaels. This hand is too strong for 2♦.3) East has a 2♦ call GF. 4♠ takes air out of the auction.4) West hearing 4♠ should try 4N. 5♦(lottery winner!) begets 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourdad Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 If the X is an opening hand with support for the unbid suits and, over a minor opening does NOT promise four spades (as a X of 1H would), then 4S shows an opening hand w/ 5+ spdaes. As W has an easy 20+ point count 6S should be automatic.How can South alert "precision" on this hand? Is it not a pure psyche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 How can South alert "precision" on this hand? Is it not a pure psyche?Alerts disclose the agreement, not what you have. Otherwise it would rather defeat the purpose of psyching. Also, this happened in live bridge, so N doesn't know about the psyche, unless he's clairvoyant or a cheater (or ignorant about the rules). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Some thoughts:1) Psyching 1♦ Precision is legal only if the bid promises 3+ cards. Otherwise the opening is illegal and penalties should apply.2) Defending 1♦, play the cue bid as natural, 2♥ as weak Michaels, and 3♦ as strong Michaels. This hand is too strong for 2♦.3) East has a 2♦ call GF. 4♠ takes air out of the auction.4) West hearing 4♠ should try 4N. 5♦(lottery winner!) begets 7. 1. Under which Law? Are you one of the players that thinks it is illegal to psyche an artificial call?2. You could do that but you should not pretend that it does not have disadvantages against standard methods.3. 2♦ is not GF for most. That does not make it the wrong call of course.4. Would you still think 4NT was the right call if East had ♠JT9xxxx and no ♥A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar13 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 1. Under which Law? Are you one of the players that thinks it is illegal to psyche an artificial call?2. You could do that but you should not pretend that it does not have disadvantages against standard methods.3. 2♦ is not GF for most. That does not make it the wrong call of course.4. Would you still think 4NT was the right call if East had ♠JT9xxxx and no ♥A? Not under any Law, but under (admittedly blindingly stupid) ACBL regulation, which the Laws allow regulating authorities to make, at least arguably. Not any kind of violation in the sane bridge jurisdictions of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodepp Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Agree with those who blame mostly East for a silly jump to 4♠, but West could (perhaps should) try RKC too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Alerts disclose the agreement, not what you have. Otherwise it would rather defeat the purpose of psyching. Also, this happened in live bridge, so N doesn't know about the psyche, unless he's clairvoyant or a cheater (or ignorant about the rules). Agree about the main points re: alerts obviously, but the hand actually happened online in a private tournament (Tuesday Lilypad game) but against people whom I know from playing a fair bit both in person and in this weekly online game. Also, for those of you who think West could/should bid on. What would you expect bids to mean? Is 4nt obviously keycard (seems likely to me although 19 balanced with xx of spades might want to try natural, but probably too thin)? Are new suits at the 5 level a cue bid, or revealing a single suited power double in this suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 What would you expect bids to mean?4NT keycard and new suit GOSH seems the most logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 4S is the very bad kind of bid that is rarely punished, but I don't know why it is not more common knowledge that with an opening hand you start with a cuebid then bid game (or if stronger than that you don't have to jump to game next). A 4S bid can be based on KJxxxxx xx x xxx for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 4S is the very bad kind of bid that is rarely punished, but I don't know why it is not more common knowledge that with an opening hand you start with a cuebid then bid game (or if stronger than that you don't have to jump to game next). A 4S bid can be based on KJxxxxx xx x xxx for instance. Bidding opposite a t/o double is one of the least understood parts of the game among intermediate/advanced players imo. I bet if you polled most people would agree with 4dad's suggestion that this showed a opening hand with 5 spades. Its basically 100% to show a weak hand with 6 spades imo, since (1) Partner can double with a strong hand which might not have that much spade support. Who wants to play in 4 spades with an opening hand and 5 spades opposite x AKxx AKxxx Axx or some other strong flexible hand without spade support. (2) What do you bid with weak hands that are long in a suit? You cannot afford not to be in game if partner really has a classic t/o double, and you would like to take away the opponents spade since this is likely a competitive hand if you have a large fit and less than half the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted November 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 4NT keycard and new suit GOSH seems the most logical to me. What does GOSH mean here? Is that saying it means this suit (in the power double). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 What does GOSH mean here? Is that saying it means this suit (in the power double).Yes, it is short for good one-suited hand; ie natural and strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontoleon Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Only if 4♠ means Long S (at least 7) with 2 of 3 top cards, (and only on this case) your partener should bet 4nt here. You had AK from sure, (because he had the Q) He had 4 more tricks from sure(3 on D and one on♣) so he should try the 4nt. if you ask possitive 7 ♠ from sure. If no use the jujment if he can take the K ♥ But from me is at least 5s so no danger to try 4NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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