Granting undos

[sceptic]

Hi, Something happened to me the other day and it left me with a dilema.

 

My opponent misplayed a card and asked for an undo.

 

My dilema was, it was the card I was having problems with , or in other words the card I wanted to be in the other hand.

 

Whilst I was happy to say yes to the undo, it totally baffled me as to what the right thing to do was?

 

How should I act or continue in these circumstances

 

1/. at the table

 

2/. in a tournament

 

I do not have a major issue with the occourence as it was a very nice table, I just wanted to know what is right in a tourney (assuming undos are allowed, this may be another discussion in itself)

 

or what is right in cyberland as this may be the only place this kind of thing can happen?

[Guest Jlall]

If I understand you right it was something like you had a 2way guess on the queen, and they misclicked and clicked the queen?

 

If this is the situation use this information by all means, and do not feel bad about it. This is totally authorized information to you. What are you going to do, purposely misguess it? That would be rewarding the misclick.

[Free]

I saw it happen. It was a K sitting behind the Ace (with QJx in dummy). As far as I know, in f2f tourneys, the player should play his K whenever he gets the opportunity, which means you can just cash your Ace. Online it's a little different imo. You allowed the undo, but you can't obligate someone to play a certain card (not in the main for sure), however, you're allowed to use the information you got imo.

[hotShot]

There are two things that might have happend:

 

1) Your opp just clicked the wrong card und wants an undo

 

2) Your opp is "testing" your hand (e.g. testing if you can ruff, or have a card left)

 

So you should wait 2 seconds befor you play your card all the time to give your opponent time to ask for an undo. If he does it, befor you played your card, fine.

 

If an opp asks for an undo after I played my card, it creates a bad feeling.

I usually grant the undo anyway, but if i think he gained an advantage by this action, I write a note in the players profile, that he askes for late undo's . If i see this happen again, i mark the player as enemy.

[Free]

Perhaps you should be more specific Sceptic, since we're going back to general approaches and thoughts on undo's. If you still have the hand, it might be better to post it :D

[sceptic]

http://online.bridgebase.com/cgi-bin/histo...11619149-898014

 

16:56

 

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=skt9ht974d843cq64&w=sq762hqj8dkcjt873&e=sa854ha62dajcak95&s=sj3hk53dqt97652c2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     3♦

 Pass  Pass  3NT   Pass

 Pass  Pass  

[sceptic]

I think the K hearts was misclicked on 6 or 7 round (I cant remember exactly)

[hotShot]

It seems that south could not gain anything by throwing the king. it just makes no sence. So it was a severe slip of mind or a true misclick.

 

You lost the contract when you decided not to finesse in ♣, while you still had control in ♦.

 

So this is a matter of "sportsmanship". Do you prefer to win 12 IMP's on a missclick or because you played well?

I don't like to win on intended or unintended gifts like that, i prefer to win on my own. In this case i can't see anything that could help south, if playing the King and than ask for an undo other than a missclick here.

[Rebound]

As usual, this just my opinion: first, in the main room, I will grant any undo. After all, it's just a game right? In fact, I will grant pretty much any undo if it is quick enough.

 

Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of misclicking. Although I request undos less frequently now out of courtesy to the opponents (and because it bothers ppl more than I would have thought), it leaves me sympathetic to the misclicks of others. I agree with waht has already been said tho. Nothing wrong with granting the undo but using the info.

[TimG]

I do not have a major issue with the occourence as it was a very nice table, I just wanted to know what is right in a tourney (assuming undos are allowed, this may be another discussion in itself)

 

or what is right in cyberland as this may be the only place this kind of thing can happen?

I think you did the right thing when you allowed the undo (not taking the club finesse is another matter).

 

You do raise an interesting point regarding the possibility that a mis-click during the play should result in a penalty card. And, I suppose, a mis-click during the auction could, by Law, lead to lead penalties.

 

On one hand, the penalty card would reduce or relief offered by an undo and on the other retracting an exposed card without penalty may give a defender unauthorized information without mechanism for redress should a defender take advantage of the UI.

[Elianna]

I always grant undoes in the MBC, but maybe that's because I'm usually playing with friends, and want everyone to do the best they can, and also know that they're not undoing because of something played subsequently. I always grant undoes to people I don't know, too, because it generates good feelings, and I'm not that competitive a person.

 

It would be really great if there were no need for undoes, like you had to confirm the card you want to play (maybe by dragging it to the table, or clicking a "yes" box or something). This would be great for people like me who have eye-hand coordination issues, and for people who don't have as much control over their hand movement as they would like. Maybe it could be an option, though, so those juniors who may not like it can continue to play at lightning speed and astound the rest of us.

[inquiry]

Grant udo's when they help you and when they hurt you. An undo should be asked because of a misclick (that is it).. I believe them. If I think someone ask for undo's because they have rethought about it, I will leave after the hand and find different opponents (but I still grant it).

 

Ben

[paulg]

I believe life is easier if you have a simple policy that you keep to, as then the actual hand is irrelevant.

 

I always grant undos but never ask for them.

 

When arranging team matches for the Beginners/Intermediate Lounge I always permit undos (as I know these are friendly games) but never permit undos in other team matches that I host (again to make my life easier).

 

paul