Transfer Preempts

inquiry · March 28, 2005

First, only wacky system people need bother to read this thread, and even most of them may want to skip it. It will not interest most people. Another thread exist which discusses this topic (see Transfer Preempts)

This thread will discuss the way this concept has been evolving in my partnership with Misho. This is still a work in progress, so any input on how to improve it or any gapping holes will be appreciated. But don't make any suggestions that will affect the meaning of any of our two bids.

To summarize.

1) We can not preempt specifically to 3C.

2) Opening three bids:

3♣ either preempt to 3♦ or strong two suiter without diamonds (4 losers or less)
3♦ either preempt to 3♥ or strong two suiter with diamonds and a black suit
3♥ preempt to 3♠ or strong two RED two suiter
3♠ = any solid seven card suit, nothing on the side
3NT = any preempt to four of a minor

First area of problem, responses are cramped. If you want to "raise" the preempt, you had best have two places to play. For instance,

3C-P-4D <<--- Your partner may not have diamonds at all!!! So if you bid 4♦, you have to be prepared to hear partner bid 4♥ (hearts and a black suit) or 4♠ (spades and clubs). And bumping the preempt to the five level? Forget about it.

Second area of problem, when you have your own extra long suit.. and fear partner might have big hand with two five card suits for which you don't fit. We play simply bid the suit rather than complete the transfer. This doesn't work so well if the transfer suit is your long suit. More on these later.

The most common initial response is to complete the transfer. Opener's rebids are to show the type of hand held. Pass being the most common, showing the weak hand. Any bid other than pass (even in competition) shows a strong two suited hand. That is, if you open 3C/3D/3H with the weak hand, you are now out of the auction if partner completes the transfer or passes in competition. As responder, if you hold a fit for a possible strong suit (assuming partner has the two suiter) then you must complete transfer unless you are extremely strong. For instance, if partner opens 3♦ and you have diamonds, you must bid 3♥. If partner opens 3♥ and you have hearts or diamonds, you must bid 3♠. If partner opens 3♣ is a little more problematic. A 3M bid is more common now.

In principle the easiest two suiter to show is hearts and diamonds. You open 3H and then bid again, this is always hearts and diamonds. The minimum holding is 4 losers, and the rebid to show this is 3NT. There are three ways to show a three loser hand, all ending at or below 4H, which maybe the limit to the hand. These are, 4C, 4D, and obviously 4H. 4H shows a spade void (making cover cards easy to count, ignore those in spades), 4C could be club void or no void, I waffle on which is best, currently I play it as no void (so 6511 or 5521). 4D shows diamond void. Bids higher than 4H show fewer losers and voids or not.

The next easiest two suiters to show are those with diamonds and a black suit. You open 3D and then over 3H, you show your losers and your second suit. We use 3S here to be 3 or 4 Losers (3S rebids always show 3 or 4 losers, all others describe more or less precise number of losers). 3NT shows minor two suiter with 4 losers, a 4C rebid shows minor two suiter with three losers, higher bids show different two suiter with specific number of losers with or without know voids.

The most difficult two suiters to show are those starting 3C. 3C is used with any two suiter that DOES NOT INCLUDE diamonds. Our rebids are such that they show the next two suits. Thus, over 3C-3D, a 3H rebid shows hearts and spades and exaclty four losers. A 3S rebid shows spades and club with 3 or 4 losers. A 3NT rebid shows hearts and clubs with 4 losers. Higher bids show specific two suiters with different number of losers (for instance 4H would show hearts and spades, 3 losers, and 4S would show spades and clubs with 2 losers or the rare EXCEPTIONAL 3 loser hands with lots of extra chances).

I can provide the complete structure for all opener's rebids if anyone is interested. But here is where the bidding gets fun. The bidding will be at the three hearts or higher when you have a strong two suiter. What kind of sure covers exist?

A sure cover will be the AKQ in either of your partners suits, A side ACE if he has denied a void in a suit. That is it. But there are a number of "possible cover cards". These include such things as King in a side suit, doubleton in one or openers suit, and even five small cards in one or partners suit (doubleton and five if partner is missing the queen). We have devised a way to explore all these possible cover cards, and that is what I would like comment on.

These will be outlined in the next post.

ben

inquiry · March 28, 2005

Reminder what we want to explore: What kind of possible cover cards exist?

Five card support will cover for a missing queen (should you partner be missing it)
A doubleton could cover for a missing queen (if you ahve adequate support in the other suit and your partner is missing it)
A side suit king may be a cover or may not. An oddity, two side suit kings are never more than one cover card.. keep this in mind when bidding, one is always wasted.
A side suit queen, while useful (say opposite Kx), is never a cover UNLESS your partner has a void and has specifically 5530 distribution.

We have developing a continuation scheme that allows responder/opener to explore which cover cards in responders hand are working and which are not. First, there is no BLACKWOOD (gasp). Let's look at the scheme.

After Opener shows his losers and his two suiter with his rebid, responder generally counts his sure covers, and bids to the appropriate level. Here is an example hand from a recent BBO event…

MP-828 1henryg    Dlr: West
Board 8    S 732    Vul: None
H 53
ellliii    D A754 igill
S AJT98    C KQT7 S Q654
H KQJ7 H T9642
D 82 wk05 D T3
C 86 S K    C J4
H A8
D KQJ96
C A9532

=======================================
# Contr   Ld Decl    Tr Score   Pts
=======================================
1 3N E S4 krsd 8   -50   3.23
2 7D E HT erenerkin12   -50   3.23
3 3N E S4 ikinci 8   -50   3.23
4 Pa C2 wk05 0    0 50.00
5 4S N DA tbdalak   8   100   9.68
6 4D W HK sever 12   170 19.35
7 4C E C4 witusek3 12   170 19.35
8 2D W HK master_3312   170 19.35
9 3D W HK ay    12   170 19.35
10 3D W D2 belde34 12   170 19.35
11 4HX   N CK erkkre 8   300 29.03
12 5D W HK gertrudei11   400 35.48
13 5C W C6 1junior 11   400 35.48
14 5D W HK ahmetabi 11   400 35.48
15 5C W HK cucui 12   420 59.68
16 5D W HK wespol11112   420 59.68
17 5D W HK Star37   12   420 59.68
18 5D W SA sakson   12   420 59.68
19 5C W HK gilbe 12   420 59.68
20 5C W HK AxelI 12   420 59.68
21 5C W HK zapallar 12   420 59.68
22 5D W SA mechanic212   420 59.68
23 5C E SQ lorran   12   420 59.68
24 5C E DT kermit11412   420 59.68
25 5D W SA fredgak7 12   420 59.68
26 5D W HK leszek_wj12   420 59.68
27 5SX   N CK enel 8   500 80.65
28 5CX   W HK rafcio77 12   650 90.32
29 5DX   W HK Zofia 12   650 90.32
30 5DX   W HK lafratta 12   650 90.32
31 5DX   W HK jean-pie012   650 90.32
32 5DX   W HK ibj004   12   650 90.32
33 6DX   W HK Katajewsk12 1090 100.00

Of course, one hand doesn’t prove much, but here out of 33 tables, only one bid slam. Our auction would be quick and simple. 3D-3H-3N-5N-6D-Pass. Where 3N showed minor two suiter with four losers. Responder sees three cover cards and a fit. 4 loser-3 covers = slam. What could be easier? (Opener might want to consider not opening 3D with Kx of hearts instead of Ax, but it is possible to be off two aces here, but that hand would not be worth a three diamond bid with such a weak club suit.)

Sometimes, responder will not know. If he has a side king, is that a cover? If it is, he may have 3 covers and slam should be bid, if it is not working, he only has two and no slam. Sometimes he will have five small cards in support. Is that a cover for missing queen or not? How about a doubleton in one of the two suits with support for the other? On some auctions, even a side ace is not a sure cover. The answer to these questions could be the difference between game and slam and slam and grand slam. We address this with some "uncertainty" auctions.

So, after opener shows his second suit, if responder does not immediately place the contract, we are sure there is uncertainty. That is obvious enough. We express the most obvious uncertainty using the two cheapest bids in the non-anchor suits which not onlyy express uncertainty, but also DENY control (ACE or KING) in the bid suit..... Let's see how this works...

3C-3D

3H-4C <--- 3H shows heart and spade, 4 loser

4C denied a cover card in clubs, and expressed slam interest if enough cover cards exist in responders hand. 4C is neutral on location of any other cover cards (but very unlike to have three sure covers in the majors or would jump to slam). Ok, one thing is easy, opener can bid 4H if he has two club losers, as pass/correct. Any bid other than 4H (the cheapest anchor suit) is encouraging by opener. The cheapest of these bids ask about the other side suit (here diamonds), other bids show disintrest in the other side suit and express other concerns.

Alternatively,

3C-3D

3H-4D <<---- 3H still major two suiter with four losers

Here, 4D denies a control in diamonds, and by inference, includes a control (A or K) in clubs (since you didn't bid 4D). We use 4NT rebid by responder to show 2nd round control in the higher of the two side suits, and if the lower suit was bypassed, it promises control there as well. If responder bypasses 4NT and both off suits, to cue-bid the cheaper off suit, it promises king in the bid off suit, and A in the higher offsuit.

Opener, hearing responders off suit controls (or lack there of), often knows where to place the contract. One of the major problems he might have where this is not true is where he has a singleton in the other side suit when responder promised a control there (say by bypassing it). Now the king of that suit WILL NOT BE A COVER CARD, while the ace will be. This is such a concern, we reserve a special bid for this case. After responders off suit bid (which can include 4NT), the cheapest non-signoff by opener express doubt that the other suit control might be useful. This means, discount the king in the offsuit. Let's continue with an example...

3C-3D

3H-4D <-----Here 3H showed a major two suiter with 4 losers,

4H-4S

?

4D DENIED a diamond control (ACE OR KING), but promised a club control (ace or king, because without a club control you would have bid 4C). Over 4D, 4H by opener would have been signoff (pass/correct), so 4S is the next cheapest bid. This is an uncertainty bid to allow responder to evalaute his club control. The king here is no longer a cover card or opener would have bid more than this. So if responder had two sure cover cards plus the club king, the auction ends here (or in 5H).

Opener often might have Ax of Kx in the off-suit responder promises something in, and will know full well that what ever responder has in it, it is working. In which case, he will not bid the uncertainty bid, nor the signoff bid. This leaves room for opener to express where five card support or a doubleton will be of use (suit without the queen). These suits without the queen bids are quite useful. On the above auction, 4S was uncertaintly about clubs, so 4NT is one suit without the queen (hearts=lower) response, 5C is the other (here spades), and since room allows 5D to show both or to ask for third roudn diamond control. This is unclear right now what is best.

So this allows you to find side A/K. doubletons where they help or in the same suit where doubleton helps, when a five card suit will help be a cover card.

Since opener with no question about the side suit can express suits where five small or doubleton will help, when he expresses uncertainty with the second cheapest non-signoff, responder with an ACE in the suit, can 1) Leap to slam, 2) show suit where he has EITHER five or two card support (with two, then real support for the other suit), 3) show AK in the other side suit).

The concept here is that if you made a slam try, opener expressed doubt your side suit control was useful. If it was useful, and that gave you enough cover cards for slam, you would bid it. To not bid slam suggest one of responders cover cards may or may not be working. Since we KNOW AKQ in both partners suit are working, and we know the ACE in the side suit is workng (due to the uncertainty ask), the "iffy" cover card will always be either long support (maybe JTxx or any five) for one of the suits, or doubleton for a suit with adequate support for the other. So responder uses exactly the same bid opener would have used to show these hands... for instance,

3C-3D

3H-4D <<--- 3H showed major 2 suiter, 4D denied D, promise C control

4S-4N <<--- 4S showed concern about King of clubs,

Here 4N showed CA and either 2 hearts, or five hearts. The concept is if you are missing the heart queen, responder wants to bid slam. Note, responder might have club king and five hearts, plus maybe heart King and spade Q. Since heart King and spade queen are working covercards, if the fifth heart covers for the missing queen, slam is assured anyway. So obviously responder need not signoff. Likewise, responder may have club ACE, five hearts to the king, and the spade Q where if you show the fifth heart is a cover card, grand slam can be bid, otherwise, responder stops in 6H.

When opener promises a void, all off suit bids are about the non-void side suit and investigating rather xx or xxxxxx in an anchor suit is a cover card.

Let’s look at one more recent hand…

MP-329 cato_ole Dlr: West
Board 4    S T976 Vul: Both
H K
left_13    D AQ82 bongo123
S KQJ85    C J875 S 32
H J762 H QT5
D JT96 mr1303 D 7543
C    S A4 C T432
H A9843
D K
C AKQ96
=======================================
# Contr   Ld Decl    Tr Score   Pts
=======================================
1 6C S SK mr1303   13 1390 95.00
2 6C S DJ civiliber13 1390 95.00
3 6C S SJ Sv Agger 13 1390 95.00
4 6C S SK Dostablit12 1370 85.00
5 2SX   W HK le-saint 4 1100 80.00
6 3N S DJ jeff971 11   660 65.00
7 3N S SK Wcool 11   660 65.00
8 3N S SK irena001111   660 65.00
9 3N N S3 iv567 11   660 65.00
10 3N N D4 fatatis 11   660 65.00
11 5C S SK Gulazade 13   640 42.50
12 5C S SK PACHINEW 13   640 42.50
13 5C N S3 kotens   13   640 42.50
14 5C S SK jeger 13   640 42.50
15 4H S SK krasim   10   620 27.50
16 4H S SK pthomp   10   620 27.50
17 5C S SK arym    11   600 20.00
18 3C S SK Toscanin 11   150 12.50
19 1C S SK ida2    11   150 12.50
20 6N S SK assafco 10 -200   2.50
21 7H S SK haver 11 -200   2.50

Only four out of 22 pairs found slam, no one found the excellent grand slam. How might this go playing the strong transfer preempts?

Auction one.

3C - 3D

3N – 4S <- - 4S promises A or K of diamonds, denies spade control

5D - 6C

Pass

5D shows no concern about the diamond ACE (it actually covers 2 losers, the 2nd spade!!). So now grand slam can almost surely be bid. Problem is the heart queen isn’t worth what it use to be worth. 5D shows need help in hearts, the queen is missing. North with K stiff, knows this one is working for two covers, the diamond ace is working, but he hasn't been able to visual a fourth cover card. It is still too much to ask him to bid the grand slam, but when he bids 6C, south must know that 7 in close. Responder didn’t bid this with two covers. The diamond ace is one, he has no other in diamonds, and he has none in clubs. Qxx or Kxx of hearts is only one. So he rates to have Kx, K, Q, Qx, or KQ(x) in hearts, nothing else makes. So 6C will be bid, and opener will at least consider grand slam here.

This system, however, actually allows you to find the grand slam when played as described above. All opener need do is bid 4N to ask about the diamond ace (which he knows responder holds), responder would not bid 5C or 5H (since we all know he holds the diamond ace). Instead, he might just leap to slam, or he might explore grand slam/slam possibility with a bid showing either five hearts or five clubs, or a doubleton club or doubleton heart. When showing either of these, he will not hold the Queen in that suit. So over 4NT (which ask for info on the promised diamond control), responder would have bid 5S showing either five hearts or doubleton heart. If doubleton without the queen. Since he will not have enough cover cards when missing heart king when not holding heart queen, Responder can bid 5NT (pick slam), and when responder picks clubs, he can confidently bid the grand slam. Responder can also bid 7C if he likes, as responder would have to have Kxxxx of hearts or Kx of hearts. He would correct 7C to 7H with five of them.

Ok. Can you really play with Blackwood (see the 6D hand above)? Does showing side suit kings, and five card and two cards in anchor suits really work? Can you find an improvement?

BTW, same exlusion bid, etc apply to higher responses... if 4NT is not available, then 5NT serves the roll of 4NT on lower auctions (king in higher side suit).

Ben

inquiry · March 28, 2005

This is just too good.. so I have to post this. Of course this is not a terrible difficult hand... with any method. This was played just now in Topflght. Almost all pairs were gold stars, as can be seen from the results here...

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=skq92hjt7da86ca92&w=st876hkq9432d72c8&e=saj543h865d3cjt43&s=shadkqjt954ckq765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

West North East South

- - - 3♦

Ps! 2♥l Pass 4NT!

Pass 5NT Pass 6♦

Pass 7♦ All Pass

4NT is minor two suiter, two losers, spade void. looking at two aces, grnad slam is assured.. just want to find best, so 5NT is pick slam then raise to seven. If they double, you can redouble and hope no club ruff.

As you cansee all these great players reached at least slam, and five of the seven reached grand slam, with some struggles.

6DE+1 -940 10

7DE= -1440 -0.17

7DxE= -1630 -4.33

7DxxE= -1960 -11

inquiry · April 5, 2005

Ok, some real world hands with results from the tables.

Remember.. I haven't given the full opener rebid schedule, generally the higher the rebid, the fewer the losers. So if opener rebids at the six level he is showing one loser and some very spefic distributions. If he rebids at the three level he is showing 4 losers (3 or 4 if he rebids 3s), and at the four level, generally 3 losers (4S shows two), etc.

Responder bids a new suit after opener shows his two suiter DENIES control in that suit, and if a suit was skipped, promises a control in the other suit. Opener can try to signoff if control in other suit is wasted or he can explore if responder has ACE (or king) in other suit. In addition opener can ask or responder can show a pseudo or substitute queen in either anchor suit (xx with adequate support for other suit or five card support missing the queen for an anchor suit).

Once side suit ACE/Kings are known, only final question to how high to go is if a pseudo queen in "working" or not.

Let's look at an example.

========================================
C:\BRBR\Hansi.98.IMP-27.414.txt
Produced by BRidgeBRowser on 04-Apr-05
========================================
IMP-27 WEST Dlr: East
Board 414 S T95 Vul: None
H K964
South D A52 North
S QJ742 C Q92 S K863
H T5 H QJ732
D T9 EAST D Q87
C JT84 S A C 7
H A8
D KJ643
C AK653

South West North East
3D
Pass 3H Pass 3N
Pass 4S Pass 5N
Pass 6C/6D All pass

3D = Heart preempt or diamond/black two suiter
3N = 4 loser, minor two suiter
4S = no spade A or K, promise heart A or K
5N = pick a slam, I am missing both minor queens

Opener can issue a pick a slam request here because [
1) partner's heart king is working (he promised heart control and I have ACE), &
2) Partner will have either two other sure working cards for 4S, or
3) Parnter will have one additional working cover card and a possible cover card in the form of a doubleton without queen in one minor and legnth in other, or
4) Partner will have one additional cover and five cards in one minor without the queen, or
5) Partner may have five cards in one minor without the queen and doubleton in other without the queen
6) Partner may have xxx Kxx AQxxx xx, or xxx Kxx Ax Qxxxx

Condition 3 the doubleton serves as a "replacement Queen" in the doubleton suit. Condition 4, the five cards suit serves as a "replacement queen" in the long suit. IF partner has condition 2, we will reach our slam. If partner has condition 3, we will reach 6 of the suit partner has support in. If partner has condition 4, we will reach six of the suit partner has five card support without the queen. And in condition 6, we will reach grand slam in the suit partner has five card support in. As you can see, many reached this excellent slam. Question becomes woul dthey have reached the grand slam if condition 5 or 6 existed?

Let's look at another one.
=======================================
# Contr Ld Decl Tr Score Pts
=======================================
1 4H W S3 PeterR 8 -100 -11.45
2 5C E S4 bengat 9 -100 -11.45
3 7D E DT jil 11 -100 -11.45
4 3N W S3 zionc 8 -50 -10.98
5 7D E S4 remin 12 -50 -10.98
6 Pa C6 Hansi 0 0 -10.42
7 2D E S4 chrisnap 12 170 -8.11
8 3D E SQ taj 12 170 -8.11
9 4D E HT stv 12 170 -8.11
10 3SX N CA forti 7 300 -6.06
11 3N E S4 egor 9 400 -4.34
12 3N W S3 serlich 9 400 -4.34
13 5C E SQ BarbaraW 11 400 -4.34
14 5C E SQ hermod 11 400 -4.34
15 5C E SQ aynm 11 400 -4.34
16 5D E DT ko 11 400 -4.34
17 5D E SQ swink 11 400 -4.34
18 5C E HT TrapDbls 12 420 -3.97
19 5D E DT wall899 12 420 -3.97
20 5D E SQ kajj 12 420 -3.97
21 5D E SQ mayda 12 420 -3.97
22 5D E SQ bilmur 12 420 -3.97
23 5D E DT jfb 12 420 -3.97
24 3N W H2 loli 10 430 -3.48
25 3N W HQ lesant1 10 430 -3.48
26 3N E SQ Sumi 11 460 -3.00
27 3N E S4 uri 11 460 -3.00
28 3N E S4 rupe 11 460 -3.00
29 3N E SQ jilos 11 460 -3.00
30 3N W S3 wchen 11 460 -3.00
31 3N W S3 andrey 11 460 -3.00
32 3N W S3 judypete 11 460 -3.00
33 3N W S6 carlh 11 460 -3.00
34 3N W HQ nutz 12 490 -2.55
35 5CX E HT Zon 11 550 -1.28
36 6C E SJ ozo 12 920 6.17
37 6C E SQ Awei 12 920 6.17
38 6C E SQ kodikodi 12 920 6.17
39 6C E SQ jacko 12 920 6.17
40 6C E DT grandgen 12 920 6.17
41 6C E S4 BUM 12 920 6.17
42 6C E HT tobym 12 920 6.17
43 6C E S4 ratboy 12 920 6.17
44 6C E CJ RSSANTOS 12 920 6.17
45 6C E S4 S.Pearl 12 920 6.17
46 6C E S4 serena 12 920 6.17
47 6C E SQ andre 12 920 6.17
48 6D E DT Achilles 12 920 6.17
49 6D E DT Jimmie 12 920 6.17
50 6D E DT mjb 12 920 6.17
51 6D E DT tunafr 12 920 6.17
52 6D E DT Lucvdb 12 920 6.17
53 6D E SQ shl 12 920 6.17
54 6D E SQ MooMoo 12 920 6.17
55 6D E SQ sdw 12 920 6.17
56 6D E SQ longw 12 920 6.17
57 6D E S4 mac-b 12 920 6.17
58 6D E DT abcde 12 920 6.17
59 6D E SQ manu 12 920 6.17
60 6D E DT mingwu 12 920 6.17
61 6D E SQ unicom 12 920 6.17
62 6D E D9 hherndon 12 920 6.17
63 6D E DT RF-Leach 12 920 6.17
64 6D E CJ RaviVenk 13 940 6.67
65 6D E SQ sam506 13 940 6.67
=======================================

I hope you see how the 5NT jump confirmed both queens missing, and we can make which ever slam you want to bid. With both queens missing, which ever pseudo queen responder was relying on (if he was), was working. Tell him the good news. This leads to some magic grand slams, as example 5 and 6 above shows.

========================================
C:\BRBR\xib.98.MP-20.400.txt
Produced by BRidgeBRowser on 04-Apr-05
========================================
MP-20 EAST Dlr: West
Board 400 S A75 Vul: E-W
H 987
est D A7532 jd
S QJT92 C 75 S K643
H AQJ62 H 543
D West D JT8
C 942 S 8 C QJ3
H KT
D KQ964
C AKT86

North East South West
3D
Pass 3H Pass 3N
4D 4H 4S Pass
Pass 5S Pass 6C
Pass 6D Pass Pass
Pass

(see example auctions later where WEST does not go quietly)

3D = heart preempt or strong two suiter with diamonds and black suit. West might find it difficult to bid immediately.

3N = minor two suiter, 4 loser. Here WEST finds his voice, with 4D shows majors.

4H = no heart cover, slam interest. I can count at least three potential cover cards.

4S = making it "tough for us", but we are already in slam try auction

Pass over 4S = First step, asking for nature (if exist of spade control), here as always the request is looking for ACE.

5S = spade ACE and two pseudo queen's. If I had spade ACE and two solid minor covers I would leap to slam. IF I had spade ace and one pseudo queen, I would bid 4NT. Opener would 5C only if pseudo queen in clubs does not work (in other words if opener has club queen). 5D only says pseudo queen in clubs does not work, and is neutral on diamonds. If either pseudo queen works, then over 4NT opener would bid beyond 5D

6C = we are off heart ace, so slam is limit

6D = ok, let's play in the right strain, which is diamonds

Only two pair found this slam, in part because of the michaels cue-bid they faced. LHO has trouble bidding over 3D since opener COULD have hearts. So here, I had him pass timidly. Below we will see a more aggressive approach.
=======================================
# Contr Ld Decl Tr Score Pts
=======================================
1 4SX S CA doss 10 -590 0.00
2 3SX N C7 berik 9 -530 1.27
3 4S S DK JavaDon 10 -420 2.53
4 5DX W SQ richardp 10 -200 3.80
5 3S N C7 PeggyP 9 -140 6.96
6 3S N C7 caos1411 9 -140 6.96
7 3S S CK chip_us 9 -140 6.96
8 3S S CA jai 9 -140 6.96
9 2S S CA lazar 8 -110 10.13
10 5D W SQ yetman 10 -100 11.39
11 Pa H4 xib 0 0 12.66
12 3S N DA BENSON 8 50 16.46
13 4S N DA dmoore 9 50 16.46
14 4S N C7 Strider 9 50 16.46
15 4S S CA santafe 9 50 16.46
16 4S S CA RuthieH 9 50 16.46
17 3SX N C7 forfun 8 100 22.78
18 4H N DA Jeanie 8 100 22.78
19 4H N DA Leeann 8 100 22.78
20 4SX S CA ragi 9 100 22.78
21 5SX N S5 benke 10 100 22.78
22 4D E S3 fitzkar 10 130 26.58
23 3D E S3 pah 11 150 30.38
24 4D W SQ vanluv 11 150 30.38
25 5S S CA judgie 8 150 30.38
26 5S S CA GrahamL 8 150 30.38
27 5S S CA gbs 8 150 30.38
28 3D W S9 kbaro 12 170 39.24
29 4D W SQ Lockie 12 170 39.24
30 4D W SQ friedi 12 170 39.24
31 4D W SQ wilmott 12 170 39.24
32 4D W SQ motaro 12 170 39.24
33 4D W SQ alpj 12 170 39.24
34 4D W HA jama 12 170 39.24
35 4D W HA GEEZE 12 170 39.24
36 4D W HA kittyh 12 170 39.24
37 2D W HJ Lisa 13 190 45.57
38 4HX N DA cardhog 8 300 52.53
39 4SX N C7 Marise 8 300 52.53
40 5SX N C7 JohnR 9 300 52.53
41 5SX N C7 janbgb 9 300 52.53
42 5SX N C7 abygail 9 300 52.53
43 5SX S CA glassact 9 300 52.53
44 5SX S S8 mirenzo 9 300 52.53
45 5SX S CA bobmax 9 300 52.53
46 5SX S CA lexi 9 300 52.53
47 5SX S CK Norma 9 300 52.53
48 5SX S CK hubert1 8 500 62.03
49 5SX S CA mezzie 8 500 62.03
50 5SX S CA jacco 8 500 62.03
51 6SX N C7 stellar 9 500 62.03
52 6SX S CA chen 9 500 62.03
53 5C W SQ bobeley 11 600 68.35
54 5D E H5 shytar 11 600 68.35
55 5D W SQ HEJ 11 600 68.35
56 5D W SQ mpm 11 600 68.35
57 5D W HA jdavis 11 600 68.35
58 5D E H3 RGraham2 12 620 82.28
59 5D W SQ janinge 12 620 82.28
60 5D W SQ kinks 12 620 82.28
61 5D W SQ geo1 12 620 82.28
62 5D W SQ knadar 12 620 82.28
63 5D W SQ kiri 12 620 82.28
64 5D W SQ slamboy 12 620 82.28
65 5D W SQ pitjopa 12 620 82.28
66 5D W SQ SandyT 12 620 82.28
67 5D W SQ carly 12 620 82.28
68 5D W SQ eripas 12 620 82.28
69 5D W SQ mane 12 620 82.28
70 5D W SQ ltt2000 12 620 82.28
71 5D W SQ wrich9 12 620 82.28
72 5D W SQ sallyg 12 620 82.28
73 5D W SQ cktoh 12 620 82.28
74 5D W SQ nachum 12 620 82.28
75 5CX W SQ niro 11 750 94.94
76 5DX W SQ WeiDong 11 750 94.94
77 5DX W HA dave1guy 11 750 94.94
78 5DX W SQ VickiR 12 950 97.47
79 6D E S4 vin 12 1370 99.37
80 6D W HA steneid 12 1370 99.37
=======================================

Imagine WEST could DOUBLE 3D or bid or bid 3H/4H to show major two suiter.

3D - (x) - P - (3S) <<--- this is "support" so doubles by opener show other 2 suiter

X - (4S) - 4N - (P)

6C - (P) - 6D - (all pass)

Over the interfernce here, since they are supporting each other. Dbl of 3S show minor two suiter, 4 loser, 3N shows minor 2 suiter 3 loser, 4C shows minor two suiter, 3 loser, void in lower suit, 4D shows minor two suit, 3 loser, void in higher suit, 4H show 2 loser, heart void, 4S 2 loser, spade void, 4N two loser no void, etc.

This auction has managed to effectively crowd your auction. If WEST passes 3Sx, then partner will bid 4H and proceed normally. Over 4S, north can make forcing pass then invite with five diamonds. But here north bids 4NT. This still does not ask for ACES, but rather shows spade ace. When they are bidding a suit, there is no need to show the normal "second round control". So 4N show first round control in their suit. Opener with heart control takes his best shot. This is more of a gamble than when they stayed out of the auction. But their bidding is not so clear.

Seems this thread is only interestig to a few. but if you run across any hands like this and want to discuss them, private message me. Also, I am willing to share my bidding notes and hundreds of example hands in lin file format if anyone is interested.

ben

Gerben42 · April 5, 2005

I'm just wondering how often you run into a hand like this:

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=saq98h7dqj8ckj865&w=s654haq94dak32c42&e=skjth2dt976caqt97&s=s732hkjt8653d54c3]399|300|[/hv]

On most tables 3♥ will end the auction, but you open 3♦ pass 3♥ pass pass DBL pass pass pass.

inquiry · April 5, 2005

I'm just wondering how often you run into a hand like this:

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=saq98h7dqj8ckj865&w=s654haq94dak32c42&e=skjth2dt976caqt97&s=s732hkjt8653d54c3]399|300|[/hv]

On most tables 3♥ will end the auction, but you open 3♦ pass 3♥ pass pass DBL pass pass pass.

You are correct. should I choose to open 3D, partner will bid 3H. On this death layout, and iwith diamond ace lead, and spade switch, I will win only five tricks (1S and 4 hearts) for -800 versus their 3NT game. The rule I use for preempt, as quoted in this forum a lot of times is 5421 (down five in my hand at favorable, down four if neither vul, down 3 if both vul, down one at unfavorable, at mp, I switch to 5431) . So when I am not vul they are, I will open this hand 3H (I have 5 winners, as opposite nothing I will win only 5 heart tricks. Turns out with this split I win only 4). At the vulnerabilty you gave, I will not open this 3H, but that is just me. Make EW vul, and I will bid 3D. Ok?

However, the question becomes what your opponent's agreements are. Let's consider their options (they really need to be able to discuss this, it is hardly fair to spring this on them unawares, but more and more people are opening some form of transfer preempt).

The options are,

Over 3D, a double shows diamonds.

Over 3D, a double shows a takeout double of hearts

Over 3D, a 3H bid shows a strong stake out double of hearts

Over 3D, a 3H bid shows hearts

Over 3D, a 3H bid shows a two suiter, spades and a minor

Over 3D, a pass is "waiting" and when 3H comes back around now dbl is takeout

Over, 3D, a pass is waiiting and when 3H comes back around double is penatly.

These are somewhat mutually exclusive. If they save 3H to show hearts, they will lose the opportunity to use 3H as takeout. If they don't have 3H showing hearts, they lose the oppotunity to interfer with your strong hands when they do hold hearts. If they use 3H to show micheals, they lose the ability to show hearts or use 3H as takeout. IF they use double of 3D as takeout of hearts, they lose the abiity to show diamonds with the double, and vise versa.

Clearly, you draw the assumption that over 3d, pass is waiting, and when 3H comes back around, double is penatly. That is certainly playable, and I am particularily fond of the pass and then act with no clear direction. So I like the pass here followed by the double to penalty oriented, "cards". However, on this hand, I will be no worse off than the people where the auction goes 3HppXppp, of course. And many (not all), will REOPEN with double with EAST's cards. Let's say half the field does so. I will get 25% for this bid. It will be slighlty higher becasue some (gasp) will open 4H with south hand or north willl take a call. How will I do at imps? I am minus 800 versus a vul 3NT that makes (for minus 600). And I was mildly unlucky. First the opponents had a way to play 3Hx as penalty (at a cost of using either an immediate 3H bid as takeout.. which means I will never face the 3H-X-all pass auction on other hands), or they use 3D-x as general takeout, which means they can not make use of lead directing or sacrafice suggesting 3Dx to show diamonds.

This defensive method leaves them at some considerable risk on other auctions, but then, there is no perfect defense to this transfer preempt that shows the transfer suit weak, or two other suits strong. Each defense you choose will work on some hands and not on others. It might be useful to discuss what the best approach to transfer preempts are. IF the SUIT bid is absolutely promised, I see no harm in cue-bid being general takeout, but I play if they cue-bid the suit, double by responder shows penalty double of the bid suit (consider it a raise), this can lead to some penalties when opener has the strong two suiter without the transfer suit.

Ben

chicken · April 5, 2005

in my opinion this is definately a brownsticker convention, good for this site and

A-Level tourneys, but not allowed in 90% of the tourneys all over the world. as far as i know (and i play X-fer preempts with str 2-suiter option as well) wbf calls this a hum convention as long as no anchor suit (dont know the precise technical term in english) is announced.

hrothgar · April 5, 2005

in my opinion this is definately a brownsticker convention, good for this site and A-Level tourneys, but not allowed in 90% of the tourneys all over the world.

While you are entitled to your opinion, the regulations state otherwise

Quoting the WBF system policy as published at http://www.worldbridge.org/departments/systems/policy.asp

2.2 HUM Systems

For the purpose of this Policy, a Highly Unusual Method (HUM) means any System that exhibits one or more of the following features, as a matter of partnership agreement:

1. A Pass in the opening position shows at least the values generally accepted for an opening bid of one, even if there are alternative weak possibilities

2. By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level may be weaker than pass.

3. By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level may be made with values a king or more below average strength.

4. By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level shows either length or shortage in a specified suit

5. By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level shows either length in one specified suit or length in another.

EXCEPTION: one of a minor in a strong club or strong diamond system

Its also worth noting that this premptive structure does even not qualify as a Brown Sticker convention since the "Weak" option always included 4+ cards in a known suit. Quoting the same page

2.4 Brown Sticker Conventions and Treatments

The following conventions or treatments are categorised as 'Brown Sticker':

a) Any opening bid of two clubs through three spades that:

i) could be weak (may by agreement be made with values below average strength) AND

ii) does not promise at least four cards in a known suit.

EXCEPTION: The bid always shows at least four cards in a known suit if it is weak. If the bid does not show a known four card suit it must show a hand a king or more over average strength. (Explanation: Where all the weak meanings show at least four cards in one known suit, and the strong meanings show a hand with a king or more above average strength, it is not a Brown Sticker Convention.)

EXCEPTION: A two level opening bid in a minor showing a weak two in either major, whether with or without the option of strong hand types, as described in the WBF Conventions Booklet.

inquiry · April 5, 2005

in my opinion this is definately a brownsticker convention, good for this site and
A-Level tourneys, but not allowed in 90% of the tourneys all over the world. as far as i know (and i play X-fer preempts with str 2-suiter option as well) wbf calls this a hum convention as long as no anchor suit (dont know the precise technical term in english) is announced.

The ACBL must be way ahead of the curve then, I quote the following from the ACBL Mid-level chart, under the heading:

ALLOWED ** Unless specifically allowed,

methods are disallowed **

7. A transfer opening bid at the two-level or higher showing a weak bid in

the suit being transferred to or a type or types of strong hand.

So this is hardly "brown sticker" (aka highly unusual) if the ultra conservative ACBL has it as mear mid-chart. The transfer opening bid occurs at the three level (thus 2 level or higher), showing a wek bid in the suit being transfered (the next highest suit), or a type (not types) of strong hand (in this case two suiter).

Here is a link to the ACBL convention charts, you will need adobe acrobat reader on your computer to read this file. http://www.acbl.org/documentlibrary/play/convchart2005.pdf

mikestar · April 5, 2005

Ben,

I am finding this thread quite interesting. I would like to see more hands where:

1) Opener has a three-level prempt

2) Responder has a preeptive raise of a three level preempt but opener is strong.

I particualry wonder about the last with the 3C opening when the auction would go 3D-5D with natural preempts.

Gerben42 · April 5, 2005

I agree you need to talk through a defence to this system, that is probably why it is MidChart in the ACBL. Not that any MidChart conventions are considered out of the ordinary for std. European tournament play...

In Europe where there are less rigid restrictions I would expect every serious pair to already have a defence to this as soon as you arrive at the table. Same for Multi and assumed fit preempts.

A good starting point would be that after 3♦:

a) Double is takeout of Hearts

:D Pass then double is Penalty

c) 3♠ and higher as after a normal 3♥ opening bid.

Now you can discuss what (3♦) 3♥ should be. As I play Leaping Michael's this asks for a stopper for 3NT.

hrothgar · April 5, 2005

The ACBL must be way ahead of the curve then, I quote the following from the ACBL Mid-level chart, under the heading:

....

So this is hardly "brown sticker" (aka highly unusual) if the ultra conservative ACBL has it as mear mid-chart.

Few comments

1. There are example of conventions permitted by the ACBL Chart that are also classified as Brown Sticker Conventions by the WBF. A 2NT opening showing a weak 3 level preempt in Clubs or Diamonds is the most obvious example, however, there are others. In short, I think that your argument is flawed.

2. Brown sticker is not equivalent to a "HUM"

3. Try to avoid using word's Highly Unusual in framing these types of arguments. I consider it very unfortunate that the WBF chose to use the expression "Highly Unusual". In doing so, the suggest that the primary issue is related to the frequency with which player encounter said methods. If you look at the definition of a HUM, its celar that HUMs are characterized by either

a) Strong pass and weak 1 level openings

B) Multi-meaning 1 level openings (for example, a 1♠ opening promises 0-2 Spades or 6+ Spades)

Using the expression Highly Unusual leads players to believe that methods that are not standard are HUMs...

Free · April 5, 2005

in my opinion this is definately a brownsticker convention, good for this site and
A-Level tourneys, but not allowed in 90% of the tourneys all over the world. as far as i know (and i play X-fer preempts with str 2-suiter option as well) wbf calls this a hum convention as long as no anchor suit (dont know the precise technical term in english) is announced.

Total rubbish! The anchor suit is only needed for a weak version, so the preempt suit is known (transferred). Apparently you need to read the rules, because you don't even know what kind of system YOU play.

Gerben42 · April 5, 2005

Now that we had the possible disadvantages, I think that there is great advantage in showing these 5-5 hands like this. They need very specific values for high-level contracts so they require special attention which most systems cannot cope with.

So I like the idea :D

inquiry · April 5, 2005

Ben,

I am finding this thread quite interesting. I would like to see more hands where:

1) Opener has a three-level prempt
2) Responder has a preeptive raise of a three level preempt but opener is strong.

I particualry wonder about the last with the 3C opening when the auction would go 3D-5D with natural preempts.

Before we show some hands were responder wants to or actually does raise the preempt (and there are hands where this is a good idea). Let's review a few rules.

1 - If opener is WEAK, he is not allowed to bid again after the three level bid. If he wanted to preempt higher than three he should have done so at once. So futher action by opener shows the strong variety.

2 - Doubles by either partner of an unsupported overcall are penalty oriented. Clearly if opener doubles this means this is one of his two suits

3 - Doubles by opener after they have raised each other (either overcall and raise or takout double and raise, or takeout cue-bid and raise), show the other suits (whatever strong two suiter he can hold). And, DOUBLE here is the WEAKER of openers options. (But opener's doubles double of "his transfer suit" shows most difficult to bid two suiter, since when strong, can never have that suit). The exceptions are these bids...

3C=(DBL)=Pass-(3H)-DBL = at three level, shows hearts and aother siot, strong. 3S shows spades and clubs (4Losers), 3NT shows spades and clubs (3L), etc.

3C=(DBL)=Pass-(3D)-DBL, here this shows hearts and clubs, 4 losers. This way it is possible to play 3Dx and 3H. 3H over 3D is still major two suiter, 3S over 3D is still spades and clubs, This allows 3NT to be 3 losers instead of four with hearts and clubs.

4 - At higher level, double show their suit (or if they raise), four losers. Bids show two suiter, fewer losers. The type of bid shows different loser... one example..

3C-(3S)-P-(4S)

Dbl = 4 losers, some exceptionally bad 3 loser hands, clubs and heart (3C can never hold diamonds)

4N = 3 losers, clubs and hearts

5C = 2 losers, clubs and hearts, etc.

Next time, over interference, examples.

Ben

inquiry · April 5, 2005

The following three hands are just the first three I downloaded... that competition would be expected. On the first, a very slam and possible grand slam failing only on 4-1 diamond split as missed at every table. A typical auction is shown as well as all the results. On this first one, the auction would be...

3D-(4H)-Pass-Pass

DBL-(Ps)- 4N - Pass (Opener can't have hearts, when strong, so DBL = 4loser)

6C-(Ps)-Pass-Pass (6C shows hearts under control, good hand for dbl)

All pass

The 4NT bid is necessary, because of uncertainty on this auction. If openers suits are known, 4NT would convey specific control meaning. Here it is a type of "slam try". Note, 4S would be pass/correct suggesting no diamond support. Opener passes with spades, and bids 5C without them. Here, 5C would be odd, as it shows no desire to stay at the four level in spades, no willingness to play 4Hx, and no diamond support. So in fact, 5C should show slam force if opener has heart control and spades. So 4NT denies the heart control here, but shows some willingness to move towards six.

With hearts under control and Ax of spades, opener should shoot the slam, I think, but at very least you get to cold five clubs, instead of 4Sx.

========================================
C:\BRBR\trebol.03.MP-27.616.txt
Produced by BRidgeBRowser on 4/5/2005
========================================
MP-27 kayvee Dlr: West
Board 616 S AT Vul: None
H J
elbi D AKQ98 kaps
S QJ983 C KJT85 S 5
H Q8 H AKT75432
D JT62 trebol D 3
C 62 S K7642 C 943
H 96
D 754
C AQ7

North East South West
elbi kayvee kaps trebol
Pass
Pass 1D 3H 3S
Pass 4S Pass Pass
Dbl Pass Pass Pass

Opening lead: HQ Result: Down 3
Score: -500

1 North HQ, J, 2, 6
2 North H8, ST, H3, H9
3 East DA, 3, 4, 2
4 East DK, S5, D5, D6
5 South HA, S2, S3, D8
6 North DJ, Q, H4, D7
7 East SA, C3, S4, S8
8 East C5, 4, A, 2
9 West SK, 9, D9, H5
10 West S7, J, C8, H7
11 North SQ, CT, C9, S6
12 North DT, CJ, HT, C7
13 North C6, K, HK, CQ

=======================================
# Contr Ld Decl Tr Score Pts
=======================================
1 4SX W HQ trebol 7 -500 0.00
2 4SX W HQ ally 8 -300 2.31
3 5SX W HQ keuka 9 -300 2.31
4 6S W HQ serfer 9 -150 4.62
5 4S W HQ ernae 8 -100 10.77
6 4S W HQ DavidRG 8 -100 10.77
7 4SX W HQ missdeal 9 -100 10.77
8 4SX W HQ BettyI 9 -100 10.77
9 4SX W HQ erichRWS 9 -100 10.77
10 4SX W HQ cash 9 -100 10.77
11 6C E HA ed500 10 -100 10.77
12 4S W HQ TERRY99 9 -50 24.62
13 4S W HQ johnjay 9 -50 24.62
14 4S W HQ bob_m 9 -50 24.62
15 4S W HQ JANEW1 9 -50 24.62
16 4S W HQ reliance 9 -50 24.62
17 4S W HQ cardgame 9 -50 24.62
18 4S W HQ delta 9 -50 24.62
19 5C E HA judydee 10 -50 24.62
20 5D E HA dave 10 -50 24.62
21 6C E S5 seatbelt 11 -50 24.62
22 6D E HA SELMA-1 11 -50 24.62
23 4H S D4 jjthomas 9 50 34.62
24 4H S CA greta123 9 50 34.62
25 3HX S H9 mariemc 8 100 43.08
26 4HX S D7 Lycaste 9 100 43.08
27 4HX S CA duong 9 100 43.08
28 4HX S CA chuckfin 9 100 43.08
29 4HX S D7 jim-2 9 100 43.08
30 4HX S CA hjohn 9 100 43.08
31 4HX S CA BHR 9 100 43.08
32 4HX S D4 RonTr 9 100 43.08
33 4HX S CA ava 9 100 43.08
34 4D E HK RoseMS 11 150 52.31
35 4D E HK sldp 11 150 52.31
36 4D E HK wem 11 150 52.31
37 4HX S D7 CHER608 8 300 60.00
38 4HX S H6 bridge07 8 300 60.00
39 5HX S D4 dow 9 300 60.00
40 5HX S S2 harold_1 9 300 60.00
41 5HX S D7 rjltree 9 300 60.00
42 5HX S CA ed2 9 300 60.00
43 5HX S CA JeanW 9 300 60.00
44 5C E HA murs 11 400 76.92
45 5C E HA leito 11 400 76.92
46 5C E HA hecodem 11 400 76.92
47 5C E S5 sbg1 11 400 76.92
48 5D E HA EEProf 11 400 76.92
49 5D E HA aliq 11 400 76.92
50 5D E HA malenap 11 400 76.92
51 5D E HK brdgnrt 11 400 76.92
52 5D E HK gavinl 11 400 76.92
53 5D E HK anneh 11 400 76.92
54 5D E HK skatearl 11 400 76.92
55 5D E HA mike15 11 400 76.92
56 5D E HA laurentt 11 400 76.92
57 5D E HA pkchance 11 400 76.92
58 5D E HA postum 11 400 76.92
59 5C E HK insight 12 420 91.54
60 5C E HK bano 12 420 91.54
61 5D E HA Gwyn 12 420 91.54
62 5D E HK Patty_S 12 420 91.54
63 5HX S H9 aud90 8 500 96.92
64 5HX S D4 b3jazz 8 500 96.92
65 6HX S CA lokos 9 500 96.92
66 4SX W HQ PAR32 10 590 100.00
=======================================

The next one, below, takes advantage of the fact that when opener opens 3H, his only strong two suiter can be both red suits.

Our auction would go...

3H - (4C)- Pass - Pass

4D - (Ps) - 4H/5D - all pass

Hee, over 4C, opener can NOT have clubs and hearts (would open 3C).

So double does not show clubs and hearts. Dbl shows red suits and 4 losers.

Opener didn't double, so is 4D bid shows red two suiter with 3 losers. Responder has (luckily), two winning options. He can bid 5D which is fortunate it makes. Or he cand bid 4H, which is equally fortunate it makes. Clealry responder is not thinking about bidding higher. Also note that opener can with 3 losers sometimes choose to double instead of make the cheapest bid to show the 3 loser hand. This is hand falls into that category. 4Cx would be nice result too (down four).

========================================
C:\BRBR\frna.03.MP-27.502.txt
Produced by BRidgeBRowser on 4/5/2005
========================================
MP-27 CHER608 Dlr: East
Board 502 S 8653 Vul: N-S
H T8
cookcat D T653 bob_lyon
S A4 C KJ9 S JT972
H QJ H 7543
D 97 frna D 82
C AQ85432 S KQ C T7
H AK962
D AKQJ4
C 6

West North East South

2C
Dbl Pass 2S 3H
4C Dbl Pass 4D
Pass 4H Pass Pass
Pass

Opening lead: CA Result: Made 4
Score: 620

1 South CA, 9, 7, 6
2 South C2, K, T, D4
3 West HT, 3, 2, Q
4 South SA, 3, 2, Q
5 South CQ, J, D2, H6
6 East HA, J, 8, 4
7 East HK, S4, S5, H5
8 East H9, C3, D3, H7

=======================================
# Contr Ld Decl Tr Score Pts
=======================================
1 5D E SA sandym 6 -500 0.00
2 4H E CA paxx 6 -400 1.89
3 5H E D9 reva 9 -200 3.77
4 4H E SA howie 9 -100 12.26
5 5H E D9 SUSU 10 -100 12.26
6 5H E SA cecil7 10 -100 12.26
7 5H E SA jcabraga 10 -100 12.26
8 5H E SA skim 10 -100 12.26
9 6D E SA recaptan 11 -100 12.26
10 6D E SA wood 11 -100 12.26
11 6D W CT uk_bloke 11 -100 12.26
12 3D E D9 margret 10 130 20.75
13 2H E CA steve42 9 140 22.64
14 4D E D9 tigers 11 150 29.25
15 4D E CA BOZOPAUL 11 150 29.25
16 4D E SA gtrione 11 150 29.25
17 4D E SA sparky1 11 150 29.25
18 4D E SA fyurdun 11 150 29.25
19 4D E SA Margaret 11 150 29.25
20 3D E D7 clf 12 170 37.74
21 2H E CA chaim 10 170 37.74
22 3H E CA LM2 10 170 37.74
23 4CX S HT gulkaya 7 500 41.51
24 5D E D9 mayjun 11 600 46.23
25 5D W CT Gina 11 600 46.23
26 5D W SJ sibanna 11 600 46.23
27 5D W CT margotk 11 600 46.23
28 4H E D9 CKW 10 620 60.38
29 4H E HJ ezoz 10 620 60.38
30 4H E SA bshastry 10 620 60.38
31 4H E CA frna 10 620 60.38
32 4H E SA ernesto 10 620 60.38
33 4H E CA tele 10 620 60.38
34 4H E HQ ARDeSan 10 620 60.38
35 4H E HJ andreadm 10 620 60.38
36 4H E CA tonyesp 10 620 60.38
37 4H E CA amra 10 620 60.38
38 4H E CA lizhowe 10 620 60.38
39 3N W CT jogovo 10 630 74.53
40 3N W CT superb2 10 630 74.53
41 3N W CT willow 10 630 74.53
42 4N W CT tanvir 10 630 74.53
43 3N W CT bigsandy 11 660 80.19
44 3N W CT madany 11 660 80.19
45 3N W C7 usha 12 690 83.96
46 3N W CT edvard 12 690 83.96
47 5DX E CA humberto 11 750 86.79
48 5CX S HT alia 7 800 90.57
49 5CX S HT fdd 7 800 90.57
50 5CX S HT bigm 7 800 90.57
51 5CX S HT delikara 6 1100 97.17
52 5CX S S5 ginel 6 1100 97.17
53 5CX S S5 shroit 6 1100 97.17
54 5CX S HT dow 6 1100 97.17
=======================================

Next hand, after three passes, you must always think this might be strong. Here West does and steps in with a 3S bid... (auction given in the quote). In balance seat, dbl would be spades is one of my suits, so 3NT is still 4 losers, minors, so that 4C is 3 losers, minors. North with two minor honors can do the math, 3 losers, minus two covers = slam. With four clubs, he can even try grand slam if his doubleton diamond Kx is good for two covers (his partner missing the queen). The Bid here is back to normal. 4H denies heart stopper (we know the suits), neutral on spades (he is bidding slam always, question is five or six)

Over 4Hx, pass would be first step. Redouble (since can't want to play hearts) would be second step, 4S would be their step and 4NT would be 4th step. PAss would ask about spade control. Redbl would look for pseudo queens in general (4S would show one, five spades, two), 4S would ask explain club queen missing, 4NT would show diamond queen missing. The 4Hx helps a lot. Responder knows the diamond Kx is only one cover, so he bids the slam.

If RHO had not doubled. Opener would have bid 4NT (skipping spades), to say, I don't care about any potential spade control you have. Do you have any pseudo queens? North has real queen of clubs (yeah), but has pseudo diamond queen. The bids here would be, 5C/5D = no fake queens and only one cover (spade king, if held not counted), 5H = one psuedo queen with enough covers already for six (5S would ask), 5S = two psuedo queens, 5NT = pick slam, 6C/6D enough for slam, no pseudo queens. Note over the pseudo diamond queen showing bid, opener just signs off, this doesn't really help since he has the queen AND BECAUSE the ace of hearts is missing.

========================================
C:\BRBR\lion.03.MP-27.418.txt
Produced by BRidgeBRowser on 4/5/2005
========================================
MP-27 bianca Dlr: West
Board 418 S 9765 Vul: N-S
H 984
superalf D K2 bbs
S KJT83 C QT97 S Q42
H T652 H AKJ73
D 64 lion D 973
C 53 S A C 86
H Q
D AQJT85
C AKJ42

West North East South
Pass Pass Pass 3D
3S Pass Pass 4C
Pass 4H DBL 4S
Pass 6C Pass All Pass

Opening lead: C5 Result: Made 7
Score: 1390

1 East C5, 7, 8, J
2 North C2, 3, Q, 6
3 South DK, 3, 5, 4
4 South D2, 7, A, 6
5 North DQ, S8, H4, D9
6 North DJ, S3, H8, H7
7 North DT, H5, H9, H3
8 North D8, H2, S5, HJ
9 North HQ, 6, C9, HA

=======================================
# Contr Ld Decl Tr Score Pts
=======================================
1 6CX S HA sun 12 1540 99.07
2 6DX N D6 jbr 12 1540 99.07
3 6C N C5 lion 13 1390 96.30
4 6C N H2 tuelho 12 1370 88.89
5 6C N HT elsina 12 1370 88.89
6 6C N H5 piteco 12 1370 88.89
7 6C S HK nikos 12 1370 88.89
8 6C S HK cats 12 1370 88.89
9 6D N H5 polfws 12 1370 88.89
10 6D N H2 maged 12 1370 88.89
11 6HX W SA jdchen 7 1100 80.56
12 6HX W SA simonsen 7 1100 80.56
13 5HX W CA alertb 7 800 76.85
14 6HX W CA sonny 8 800 76.85
15 3N S H7 buzzlevi 13 720 73.15
16 3N S H7 catalin 13 720 73.15
17 5C N S3 andreww 13 640 69.44
18 5D N C5 humberto 13 640 69.44
19 5C N H5 superb 12 620 49.07
20 5C N HT vjg 12 620 49.07
21 5C N H2 Harrsluv 12 620 49.07
22 5C N H2 bedouinf 12 620 49.07
23 5C N HT dhei 12 620 49.07
24 5C N H2 jjay 12 620 49.07
25 5C N H5 goofus 12 620 49.07
26 5C S HA delas 12 620 49.07
27 5C S HA judgie 12 620 49.07
28 5C S HA jkf 12 620 49.07
29 5C S HA gabe 12 620 49.07
30 5C S HA Trose 12 620 49.07
31 5D N C5 SBMatt 12 620 49.07
32 5D N C5 tibi 12 620 49.07
33 5D N HT Totalk2 12 620 49.07
34 5D N D6 ili 12 620 49.07
35 5D N H6 awcrull 12 620 49.07
36 5D S HA cloppy 12 620 49.07
37 5D S HA ImRon 12 620 49.07
38 5D S HA mercia 12 620 49.07
39 4HX W SA erlich 7 500 29.63
40 1C N S8 ricci 12 170 17.59
41 3C N H2 spooky 12 170 17.59
42 3C N H5 moen 12 170 17.59
43 3C N H2 cyn_ 12 170 17.59
44 3C N HT bcp 12 170 17.59
45 3C N H5 buzzy 12 170 17.59
46 3C N H5 redouble 12 170 17.59
47 3D N H2 reitop 12 170 17.59
48 3D N D6 idclare 12 170 17.59
49 4C N H2 JoanB 12 170 17.59
50 4D N ST honor 12 170 17.59
51 4D N H6 JorgeTR 12 170 17.59
52 3H W CA grandy 8 50 5.56
53 2S N DJ tonyc 4 -400 2.78
54 6N N H2 postum 8 -400 2.78
55 3HX W SA frank-1 9 -530 0.00
======================================

Does this really work? Find your hands and we can discuss them. Next when partner "raises the preempt"

Ben

inquiry · April 5, 2005

Here are some where you get the hankering to raise your partner's preempt.

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sq42ha74d9ct96542&w=sajt73hq32dq82cj8&e=sk9865hkj9865dj7c&s=shtdakt6543cakq73]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

West North East South

- - - 3♦

Pass 4♥ Pass 4NT

Pass 5♠ DBL Pass

Pass 5NT Pass 7♣

Pass Pass Dbl Pass

Pass Pass

4H was preemptive raise. Raises or fine when you have support for one of partner;s suits wehn he is stong. You don't have diamond support (one of his suits), but you have support for both of the others. Here, partner bids 4NT to show clubs, AND 3 or less losers. Responder with heart ACE, five clubs, and singleton diamonds, hopes at least one of these is working, so bids 5S (denies spade honor). Pass of 5Sx is first step, looking for heart ACE. without heart ace, responder would sign off. With heart ACE, he can bid 5NT to show a substitute queen (only because no room.. When responsder bid 4H he had a second suit in mind) . Opener doesn't care which substitute queen responder holds. IF partner has two diamonds, grand slam is great bet, with two clubs, he must have three or more diamonds, so same thing. With diamonds responder would correct to 7D.

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sq42ha74d9ct96542&w=sajt73hq32dq82cj8&e=sk9865hkj9865dj7c&s=shtdakt6543cakq73]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

West North East South

- - Pass 3♦

Pass 4♥ Pass 4♠

Pass Pass Pass

This one is a little more frightening. If you bid 4H, you will play 4S when your partenr doesn't have the week hand. You could bid 3H and maybe get out in 4S. Turns out 4S is on ice, and this is the type of "exceptional 3-loser" hand that is upgraded to 2 losers for 4S rebid. So 4S is reached either way.

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sq42ha74d9ct96542&w=sajt73hq32dq82cj8&e=sk9865hkj9865dj7c&s=shtdakt6543cakq73]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

West North East South

- - 3♦ PAss

4♥ Pass 4♠ Pass

5♣ Pass 6♦ Pass

Pass Pass

Here you can freely raise to 4H. If partner has the big hand, you have a super diamond fit. Five clubs shows heart ACE, no club control slam try. With heart king, would bid 4NT, with no heart and no club control, would bid the appropriate level based upon cover cards. Six diamonds seems to be the limit anyway. Even 5D is much better than the field did. West should probably just bid 6D, and hope spade void, five diamonds, and heart ACE are all full covers. 5C is a way to check not two quick club losers and that the heart ace is working.

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sq42ha74d9ct96542&w=sajt73hq32dq82cj8&e=sk9865hkj9865dj7c&s=shtdakt6543cakq73]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

West North East South

- - - 3♣

Pass 4♦ Dbl 4♠

Pass Pass Dbl Pass Pass

Pass

Here you can raise diamonds, because you fit whatever major partner might have. IF hearts, your queen is working, if spades, you hope your fourth spade or short club is working. Once again 4S makes. And once again, if you bid only 3D, you probably will be in 4S anyway. PArtners 3S bid will not be forcing, but it is never passed with good fit.

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sq42ha74d9ct96542&w=sajt73hq32dq82cj8&e=sk9865hkj9865dj7c&s=shtdakt6543cakq73]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

As you can see...

To raise preemptively, you should be prepared for the most logical run-outs. And when you raise preemptively wiht goodish hands, you make the auction much harder on yourself. So the trade off is when you are weak and don't raise preemptively, you give them more room when partner is weak. This is true. But if you are weak and partner is weak, well, they were likely outbidding you anyway. Those hands still have to be examined.

Ben

hrothgar · April 5, 2005

I admit to having some degree of skepticism regaridng the xfer preempt scheme...

The system violates one of my fundamental "Laws" of preempting: Partner should always be able to pass a premptive bid as to maximize the pressure on the opponents. Systemically, opening ♦ when you hold hearts is a big loss. I readily admit to blatant hypocracy given that MOSCITO uses Xfer openings for limited 1 level openings. In my defense I will only note the following:

1. I believe that partner will advance over a MOSCITO 1♦ opening showing 4+ Hearts much more frequently than over a weak level Heart preempt. The losses are smaller.

2. The Xfer opening produces some very big wins. most notably: We are able to align the opening level with the frequency of the bid (critical for relay methods). Equally significant, the transfer rightsides many contracts.

My gut tells me that slam invitational 5-5 hands just aren't frequent enough to justify the systemic loses when you hold a "normal" weak 3 bid. I'm sure that you get great results when these hands come up, but what's the frequency, (Kenneth?)

inquiry · April 5, 2005

I admit skeptism at first as well. The reason being that misho wanted 2NT, 3C, 3D, and 3H all to be two suiters or transfer preempt. I was not willing, in final analysis to give up normal 2NT opener.

The tradeoff, which you can see above, is some uncertainty when clubs is opened as to the two suiter. And a HUGE TRADE OFF, I feel obligated to point out again, now way to preempt in clubs below the four level.

Anyone who says they want to keep the ability to preempt 3C so throw this whole thing out has my full support. That is surely a fair reason.

To keep it the competition thing seems a minor point to me, as does most of the raises. What I miss most is 3Clbus. That is a biggie. It just seems the wins, and at imps, the size of the wins, when you have the strong two suiter out weigh the loses.

Ben

hrothgar · April 5, 2005

I admit skeptism at first as well. The reason being that misho wanted 2NT, 3C, 3D, and 3H all to be two suiters or transfer preempt. I was not willing, in final analysis to give up normal 2NT opener.

The tradeoff, which you can see above, is some uncertainty when clubs is opened as to the two suiter. And a HUGE TRADE OFF, I feel obligated to point out again, now way to preempt in clubs below the four level.

Anyone who says they want to keep the ability to preempt 3C so throw this whole thing out has my full support. That is surely a fair reason.

To keep it the competition thing seems a minor point to me, as does most of the raises. What I miss most is 3Clbus. That is a biggie. It just seems the wins, and at imps, the size of the wins, when you have the strong two suiter out weigh the loses.

Ben

Readily admit that you have good results when you're dealt 5-5 hands, however I'm skeptical if the frequency is sufficient to outweigh all of the loses...

Any complete analysis requires that you be able describe:

1. The frequency of the strong 5-5 hands, along with your expected gain compared to standard methods

2. The frequency of the weak 3 bids, along with your expected loses compared to standard methods

Have you done any type of analysis that will shed light on this issue?

inquiry · April 5, 2005

So far, my studies have been how to optimize bidding with the strong hands. I did do a study of what I will be missing by not being able to open 3C. An opening 3C is a small winner over thousands of hands at both imps and matchpoints. So I know I go in with a slight deficiet for that reason. What anticipate that I will make up for this on the big hans. The ratio of bid hands to preempt hands is roughly 1 to 3 to 1 to 4.

On the other hand, it is hard to caluclute the net negative affect of a 3D bid with hearts when everyone else opens 3H. A couple of issues,

3H-X-P-P-P where they got you, cancels out with

3D-(P)-3H-P-P-X.. .I the first case, WEst makes take out, East passes, in second case WEST can't make takeout but can make penalty.

So there is some finnagliing needed to even estimate this. IF you ahve any ideas how to do it, let me know.

Next, sometimes the bidding will go...

3H-P-5H/6H meant as preemptive. I can't see it every gong

3D-P-5H - unless responder has big diamond fit as well, so this really bump the preempt weapon is removed.

Next, the psyche-type 3NT is still here.. on this type auction

3H-(P)-3NT, now becomes

3D-(P)-3NT, if partner has a big hand, you will hear about it now.

hrothgar · April 6, 2005

On the other hand, it is hard to caluclute the net negative affect of a 3D bid with hearts when everyone else opens 3H. A couple of issues,

3H-X-P-P-P where they got you, cancels out with
3D-(P)-3H-P-P-X.. .I the first case, WEst makes take out, East passes, in second case WeST can't make takeout but can make penalty.

So there is some finnagliing needed to even estimate this. IF you ahve any ideas how to do it, let me know.

As you note, issues that are dependant on whether a specific hand is held in direct seat or balancing seat will cancel out and are largely irrelvant to the discussion at hand.

What would worry me is the following:

Your transfer preempt provides the opponent's with significant extra bidding room.

If I open a 3♦ preempt showing hearts, I'm giving RHO two shots at the apple. RHO can doube 3♦, cuebid, 3♥, and pass then double 3♥, bid a direct 3♠, and pass then bid 3♠ to show different types of hands...

I haven't spent much time thinking about an optimal defense to this method, but I'd probably use something like the following

Direct seat double of 3♦ = Cooperative oriented penalty double of 3♥

Direct seat 3♥ Cue bid = "Classic" takeout double

Direct seat 3♠ = Standard 3 Spade overcall

3NT = To play, typically based on a running minor

4♣ = Clubs and Spades

4♦ = Diamonds and Spades

4♥ = Hearts

4♠ Good hand with Spades

Assume for the moment that I pass...

When 3♥ comes back to me...

X = Pure penalty double

3♠ = Weak takeout of hearts

3NT = Both minors

4♣ = Single suited with Clubs

4♦ = Single suited with Diamonds

I'm sure that with a little work it would be possible to make dramatic improvements on this structure...

In short, the transfer oriented preempt gives the opponents enormous opportunity to desribe their hands... I wuldn't go so far as to say that it completely destroys the vlaue of the preempt. However, methods that permit the opponents to easily show

1. A cooperative oriented penalty double of our 3 level preempt

2. A takeout oriented double of our 3 level preempt

3. A pure penalty double of our three level preempt

While simultaneously assisting in showing constructive hands would give me significant pause for thought

inquiry · April 6, 2005

Yes, you get several bites of the apple, but not all is eqaully delicious. Let's take a look at a few of the bites....

Bite one...

"Direct seat double of 3♦ = Cooperative oriented penalty double of 3♥"

Bidding might go 3D-(X)-P-? What does your partner do, especially if not particularily strong? If he passes, the auction maybe over when opener has a strong hand with diamonds. Remember, parnter of the opening bidder is not forced to bid if you double. Ouch. Better be sure about this, the apple will bite back 30% of the time.

Bite two...

"Direct seat 3♥ Cue bid = "Classic" takeout double",

This one can bite back as well. First way this can bite back is when at the other tables it went 3♥-X-all pass. Your 3H cuebid takeout has taken this weapon away. Second way this could be wrong is when you are short in hearts, and opener is strong.. because he lacks hearts too. You are surely in trouble now....

The other bids seem ok, although the 4H bid surely helps the other side as far as I can see as often as it helps you. Of course when you bid the two suit things, this will often be more painful when opener doens't have hearts, because he surely has one of your suits, and he doesnt have hearts and neither do you, which increase misfit changes.

4♣ = Clubs and Spades

4♦ = Diamonds and Spades

4♥ = Hearts

4♠ Good hand with Spades

Ok, now we look at the hand where you pass, and the bid comes back to you in three hearts...

Ok, when you can double 3H for penalty, that is great, and a big win for you. But what about hands where you can not make a penalty double? You may have a lot of problems competing now. If you bid 3S as weak takeout, you just let us off again when your partner is stuffed in hearts. This means your direct actions might have to weaker when you don't have hearts, which will hurt both your cooperative doubles and your direct cue-bids, putting more pressure on them.

The 3Nt minor two suiter, the 4C/4D natural is ok. But of course, the preempt has done what it was meant to do, put the last guess back on you.

For sure, more options is good for the defense. I don't mean to suggest that it isn't. But, there is also more risk too, when you take an action based upon opener having the transfer suit. If transfer WAS ALWAYS the transfer suit and always weak, you can eat it alive.... I agree... I am not so sure about these preempts, but my experience is fairly limited in competition so far.

Ben

hrothgar · April 6, 2005

Yes, you get several bites of the apple, but not all is eqaully delicious. Let's take a look at a few of the bites....

Ben, I don't think that its fruitful to argue about the specifics of this defense.

As I noted, its just something that i threw together off the top of my head.

The real point that you need to consider is whether you want to trot this method out against opponents who do have a good defense.

I suspect that the losses when you hold a weak hand are going to be frequent enough and large enough to swamp any benefits that acrue from slam invitational 5-5s...

hrothgar · April 6, 2005

The ratio of big hands to preempt hands is roughly 1 to 3 to 1 to 4.

This doesn't sound quite right... I don't have the right tools to do a script right now (running into trouble with my memeory manager). So, lets do a rough approximation

5-5-2-1 patterns make up 3.17% of hands

5-5-3-0 patterns make up .9 % of hands.

6-5-1-1's are .71%

6-5-2-0s are .65%

All told, this makes up 5.63% of hands

There are 6 2 suited hand patterns. Diamonds + A Black suit make up 1/3rd of all these hands. So, we're looking at roughly 1.87% of the hands.

In contrast, if we look at single suited hand patterns

6-3-2-2 patterns = 5.64%

6-3-3-1 patterns = 3.45%

7-3-2-1 patterns = 1.88%

7-3-3-0 patterns = .27%

Here we're looking at 11.24% of the hands...

Lets be generous and assume that half of those hands are too flawed to consider a 3 level opening. Lots of those 6322 are going to lack texture or some such. This takes us down to 5.62%. So, the frequency is pretty much equivalent.

Now, lets look at HCP...

Lets assume that a weak 2 bid shows roughly 6-9 HCP...

This interval encompasses roughly 32.83% of the hands..

At the other extreme, lets define strong two suited hand pattern as 17+ HCP...

The interval 17-40 HCP encompases ~5.45% of all hands

From what I can tell, your weak hands are roughly six times more likely than the strong variants.

Personally, my style of bridge has always emphasized trying to get things right with the common stuff and let the freak hands take care of themselves...

These methods seem suicidal at MP. Even playing IMPs, I can't see your gains being significant enough to compensate for your loses...

Transfer Preempts

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