To Bid or Not to Bid and was my meaning correct?

[P0STM0RTEM]

Would very much appreciate any thoughts you might have on either the first or second or third Poll Question. Would vulnerability play a factor at all?

Obviously after 1♥-(P)-1♠-(2♣) opener can now double to show 3-card ♠ support, which maybe the answer to all my questions, but then again maybe not.

Thank you!

[Trinidad]

The double in the pass out seat shows that you don't want to sell out to 2♣. It asks partner to pick one of the three suits. So, you typically have at least 4 spades, exactly 2 hearts (with 3 you would bid 2♥) and 4 diamonds and probably another spade of diamond. So, something like 4252 or 5242 with about 3-4 HCPs.

 

The 4252 is more likely than the 5242 since you would strive to show your spades with the 5242 hand.

 

Rik

[Phil]

No one on the forums would pass 1S.

[Trinidad]

No one on the forums would pass 1S.

I suppose you mean: "No one on the firums would pass 1♥." i.e. everybody wouold bid 1♠ over 1♥. In that case, I think you are correct.

 

Rik

[Vampyr]

I suppose you mean: "No one on the forums in the world would pass 1♥." i.e. everybody would bid 1♠ over 1♥. In that case, I think you are correct.

 

Rik

 

FYP. This is why I voted "other", though I agree with your previous post.

 

To the OP: I would not pass the responding hand at any vulnerability or form of scoring, and sure you can play support doubles if you want, though this seems tangential to your questions, since it assumes that responder has bid.

 

EDIT: PS it is considered kind of rude to have such a long "interests" list.

[ggwhiz]

Passing instead of bidding 1♠ is an open invitation for the opponents to steal from you and/or get the wrong opening lead when they do buy the contract.

 

Opening 1♥ instead of 1nt and then being prepared to pass the rest of the way is the same, especially opposite a partner who can have this much and not bid either.

 

Might I suggest a glass or two of wine before the game?

[Trinidad]

FYP. This is why I voted "other", though I agree with your previous post.

I also voted "other", since to me it is important to note that the doubler will have a three suited take out: spades + diamonds + a doubleton heart.

 

Rik

[Trinidad]

Opening 1♥ instead of 1nt and then being prepared to pass the rest of the way is the same, especially opposite a partner who can have this much and not bid either.

I don't have a problem with the 1♥ opening. I could open 1♥, evaluating it as an 18 point balanced hand, planning to rebid 2NT. Change the ♦Q into a ♦K and everybody would open 1♥. When the auction comes back P-P-2♣, I don't have anything to say anymore... but I wouldn't with the ♦K either.

 

That 1HCP doesn't make the difference.

 

Rik

[Vampyr]

I also voted "other", since to me it is important to note that the doubler will have a three suited take out: spades + diamonds + a doubleton heart.

 

True, he should have this. and should really have a singleton club to justify wanting to compete after not being able to respond to the opening bid, it seems to me... 4=2=6=1?

[Zelandakh]

I also voted "other", since to me it is important to note that the doubler will have a three suited take out: spades + diamonds + a doubleton heart.

What is the difference between this and "take out to other 3 suits"? I agree with you as the basic meaning but think conversion is also on so that, for example, converting partner's 2♥ to 2♠ would show both pointed suits and remove the message of a doubleton heart.

[P0STM0RTEM]

Thank you everyone for your input.

[gwnn]

In the future, please don't write the suits when giving your hand, it is very confusing.

 

AJxxx xx xxxx xx is unambiguously

 

♠AJxxx

♥xx

♦xxxx

♣xx

 

Yes I think 1♠ is obvious, then I agree with X from passout seat, and I'm not sure what I'd do as opener over the X. Perhaps pass?

 

PS agree with Vampyr about the long interest section. sorry for being critical but it looks pretty bad.

[Trinidad]

What is the difference between this and "take out to other 3 suits"?

Nothing... except that, at the time I voted, "other" was the last option and "take out to other 3 suits" was not an option. This option only came after Vampyr and I brought up that heart tolerance is needed.

 

I agree with you as the basic meaning but think conversion is also on so that, for example, converting partner's 2♥ to 2♠ would show both pointed suits and remove the message of a doubleton heart.

And I agree with you that conversion should be possible (but then you will have considerably more than 4+4 in the pointed suits). I just thought it was more important to start with the three suited take out first, before starting to talk about conversion.

 

Rik

[Vampyr]

Yes I think 1♠ is obvious, then I agree with X from passout seat, and I'm not sure what I'd do as opener over the X. Perhaps pass?

 

You saw that the question was about reopening after first passing, right?

[gwnn]

You saw that the question was about reopening after first passing, right?

Yes. It's just that I don't feel like bidding 2♥ or 2♠ and especially not 2NT. As I said, though, I'm not sure what's right. I can see that I'm in a minority of 1, so I might be off my rocker.

[Vampyr]

Yes. It's just that I don't feel like bidding 2♥ or 2♠ and especially not 2NT. As I said, though, I'm not sure what's right. I can see that I'm in a minority of 1, so I might be off my rocker.

 

No, I think it's more that you can imagine what to do after passing in the first round, while most people find it difficult to put themselves in that position.

[gwnn]

Oh I mean I just thought what I'd do with a 5242 that is just under responding.

[KurtGodel]

Well as has been said already, I think it is clear to bid 1♠, although I might be persuaded to pass vulnerable at pairs, I'm not sure what our basic system is, as this hand is probably a borderline strong NT, so that might affect my decision. Double is undeniably takeout, just because you so rarely can make a penalty double. Bidding over partner's double is quite tough. I think at teams if the opponent's were vulnerable I would consider passing (I don't think -180 is the end of the world), but at other vulnerabilities and forms of scoring it's a bit more tough. I think I would bid 2♠, just because we are known to have at least a 7-card fit, whereas that may not be the case in hearts. Also, as partner is very weak their hand might not be able to provide many tricks unless trumps is their best suit.