cherdano Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I personally would choose a heart but I rather prefer leading from Jxx to leading from Kxx. Jxx is much more likely to blow a trick than Kxx. You should lead a major. QTxx has a good chance of setting up a trick. Really every single top player would lead a heart on this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I saw the videos and I don't find them very convincing. First one might be based on a read. I don't know if it is really possible to risk going down on a cold contract based on a read like that. What I find obvious is that it is not based on them having access to deals or else they would be on the cold 6 spades that scores higher, so appart from that only other option I can think is they have an electronic equipment atached to their toes, and someone watching vugraph is talking MORSE or whatever with them. Second one... Brogeland made the same lead? Third one... diamonds were breaking on a way that suggested more spades were on west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Are you serious? You didn't watch the videos very well. Louk showed Lotan his hand on board 1 before dummy came down. So that is how Lotan knew that he had a stiff trump. That is on video and not disputable, whether he signalled Ron or not is unclear but Lotan knew Louks trump holding. On board 3 he peeks at his screenmates hand on his way to get water or to the bathroom or wahtever. That is how he knew who had the queen in the key suit. When he comes back he moves only his left and and moves it frequently, keeping his left elbow low enough where his partner could see. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Seems like I missed the important part of the videos lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 In shocking news I looked up the hand and it was fishers left hand opponent who had the queen fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Louk showed Lotan his hand on board 1 before dummy came down. So that is how Lotan knew that he had a stiff trump. That is on video and not disputable, whether he signalled Ron or not is unclear but Lotan knew Louks trump holding. He tugged on his sweater twice... someone more dedicated than I might watch the rest of the video to see how many similar sweater-tugging motions there were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yep, Boye said in his norweigan interview that the sweater = problem in trumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 For those who doubt his methods, the IBF is holding a special committee to address this (and also to review their processes that allowed this to happen), the ACBL is now going to have a special committee and enlist the help of "experts" and hopefully make that a permanent thing going forward, the top players know that we are also responsible for allowing it to get this far and will know how to organize and handle this more effectively going forward if the governing bodies wont (I mean he got the nuts on them in 2 weeks using a lot of youtube and vugraph archives lol)... This was actually brilliant. I never would have thought of this but I am coming around to cherdanos view that he is amazingly smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I am not entirely convinced by the 3 videos. The sweater tugging looks very suspicious but for it to be 100% convincing I think someone (not me!) has to look at other video of bad trump breaks and normal trump breaks where Fisher is dummy, and has a chance to look at a defender's hand...or not. If, for example, on hands where he clearly doesn't look or there are no trump issues, he tugs his sweater or shirt, etc, in a similar fashion, then the argument is at least weakened if not destroyed. Otoh, if he only does this when he has seen a problem, then the answer seems obvious. On the small heart, I was initially sceptical, because, at the risk of claiming a level of expertise I do not have, the small heart looked absolutely normal. I suspect I would have tanked before making it, if only because in matches of that importance (I have never played in a match that important but have played in lots of team trial final matches), most players tend to take a long time over even normal decisions. Heck the other table, on essentially the same auction, led a heart, and the commentator at that table, a good player, predicted a major suit lead. However, and this struck me as worth investigating: Schwarz, who wanted a heart lead, removed the tray and placed the board on the table, noticeably to his left. Now, dummy was to his right and he may well have been leaving room for dummy's cards. But, given that they like to play N-S (this is not in itself suspicious to me: I have had teammates, who don't cheat, express strong preferences for sitting one direction), maybe they use the position of the board as a clue. It should be easy, if time consuming, to see if this is so. For one thing, look at which one of them removes the tray. Is it seemingly random, or is there a tendency for the non-leader, on defence, to remove the tray? If so, can we cross-reference suit holdings to position of the tray? On the slam, I see what I think is some strange body positioning from Fisher, but I am not entirely convinced. I don't see these videos as the 'spade Q' if by that it is supposed to be better than the hands that made up the jack. I do, however, think that there is enough in the videos that if corroborated by video of other hands, especially on tray placement and sweater tugging hands may be damning. Likely 100% damning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I am pretty sure Brogeland does not consider the lead of a heart from T9xx K9x Txx 97x suspicious by itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Mike, hand 2 is water bottle imo. The 1 and a half minute tank was an act. lol @ tanking 1 and a half minutes on a 2N 3N lead when you are one of the fastest players in the world. But yeah I think on bridgewinners someone said Boye himself led a heart. Don't think the action itself is that fishy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 As far as video evidence I think hand 3 is extremely damning, peeking at someones hand without asking and then reapeatedly moving your left hand when the guy you peeked at had the Q is pretty lol. Hands 1 and 2 need more evidence of such behavior to make a pattern, which I am sure he has. On their own they are nothing. But hand 1 is the most amazing when you combine how ridiculous the play is (oh right Ron had a read) with the fact that Lotan looked at his opponents hand, with everything else. But again the sweater thing is not a pattern until more evidence is provided, which I'm sure it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't get to see videos. Hell, I can't even get into BW, must be too many hits that crashed BW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't get to see videos. Hell, I can't even get into BW, must be too many hits that crashed BW.It was down for maintenance I think, but back now. The video of the segment v the Dutch with the slam hand missing ♦Jxxxx is on here. Repeated for convenience as they say: I think it is worth going to Board 4 at 36.00, where Fisher is thinking with ♠xxx ♥KJ ♦x ♣AKJxxxx , after (4D)-4S-(5D), and Schwartz then fans and unfans his cards and gives a quick crimp to the corner of the cards, which will always give a slight noise, but will be perceived by most as fidgeting. It would be unfair to suggest that this shows a void and slam interest, and Fisher was fully worth his jump to 6S ... The Dutch did well to save in 7D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 It was down for maintenance I think, but back now. The video of the segment v the Dutch with the slam hand missing ♦Jxxxx is on here. Repeated for convenience as they say: Thanks m8! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Obviously I am happy to take the word of world class players that leading a club from Kxx QTxx Kxx Jxx against 1NT-p-p-p is absurd but would someone care to explain why? I personally would choose a heart but I rather prefer leading from Jxx to leading from Kxx. Jxx is one of the worst combinations that you want to lead from. It is not passive lead, it is suicidal lead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 On the 3rd video hand, if East had held Qxx K9 KJ10xx Q10x, might he have opened the bidding? With nothing else to go on, that seems to me sufficient reason to play West for ♠Q. Hence I don't think there's anything suspicious about the play of that hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is BW still working for you all? I can't get in BW, and when I can it just works for only 2-3 mins at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrows Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is BW still working for you all? I can't get in BW, and when I can it just works for only 2-3 mins at most. perhaps it's under DoS attack. Just speculating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 On the 3rd video hand, if East had held Qxx K9 KJ10xx Q10x, might he have opened the bidding? With nothing else to go on, that seems to me sufficient reason to play West for ♠Q. Hence I don't think there's anything suspicious about the play of that hand.The line chosen by Lindqvist in the other room looks better; winning the club, ruffing two diamonds and two clubs, and then playing ace and another heart; but he had some bidding from EW. When East won, he was endplayed, and if he is not, you can still find the queen of spades. But then, if you know where the queen of spades is ... And nobody seems to have commented on the jump to 6S on board 4, which looks far too optimistic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 But hand 1 is the most amazing when...What I find most amazing about it is that seemingly everyone thought that F-S were cheating and yet the Dutch player was happy for him to look at his hand. He is either very stupid, very naive or was unaware of the whispers. The video against the Norwegian pair was particulaly interesting as F-S were defending much of the time. A possible leading code from these would be that placing the board down on the left show hearts, on partner's side spades, on my side means clubs and to the right (actually more the middle) for diamonds. Perhaps someone with some time could check that against the other publically available material. The other thing is that I am not convinced pulling on the jumper means "bad break in trumps". Rather, I suspect it shows a singleton and Fisher may even have been improvising in using it as Dummy. But perhaps Boye has more to come on the code itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 perhaps it's under DoS attack. Just speculating. I don't think its used to the load. Every post is being forwarded to hundreds of recipients and the posts are coming fast and furious. I am getting an enormous number of duplicate emails. I think there is some kind of concurrency issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 It was down for maintenance I think, but back now. The video of the segment v the Dutch with the slam hand missing ♦Jxxxx is on here. Repeated for convenience as they say: I think it is worth going to Board 4 at 36.00, where Fisher is thinking with ♠xxx ♥KJ ♦x ♣AKJxxxx , after (4D)-4S-(5D), and Schwartz then fans and unfans his cards and gives a quick crimp to the corner of the cards, which will always give a slight noise, but will be perceived by most as fidgeting. It would be unfair to suggest that this shows a void and slam interest, and Fisher was fully worth his jump to 6S ... The Dutch did well to save in 7D. Does it have something to do with placement of water bottle and sweater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 What I find most amazing about it is that seemingly everyone thought that F-S were cheating and yet the Dutch player was happy for him to look at his hand. He is either very stupid, very naive or was unaware of the whispers. I made a comment to someone about this. I think it shows how powerful the desire to not be rude is. Yes I know some will say it was rude of Lotan to ask to see and against the rules blah blah blah but this is very common practice in these kind of events with screens, it is so ***** slow and it gives the dummy a sweat. I believe the racecars did this too and that was the hand they were caught on. Anyways, if Meck asked to see my hand as dummy in a slam of course I would insta say yes, it is "standard practice." I'm sure Louk knew but he still showed him, as rightly or wrongly based on the etiquette of these things saying no would be a clear sign that he thought they cheated. Lotan is very charismatic and you can see him laughing with him and whispering to him before the lead, THEN he asks to see louks hand. It is very powerful that he said yes. Sorry to be an armchair sociologist lol but I found that really interesting. A lot of being a bridge pro is like being a politician, people liking you who might then recommend you for a job etc etc. I can see why he said yes even though it seems completely insane, much like a lot of psychological phenomenons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Ok BW made announcement that says "Due to high traffic we are having issues, we are working on it and we will be back in few hours" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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