cherdano Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The following video provides a good introduction to the topic and shows a bunch of the most damning hands No. Please don't drag BBF down to that level. In regards to the B-Z hands, the evidence posted on BW seems to be pretty flimsy in comparison to that for F-N and F-S. Has anyone definitively broken the B-Z code and tested it against several sets of boards as for the other cases? ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Has anyone definitively broken the B-Z code and tested it against several sets of boards as for the other cases? ahydraI would also like to see an explanation and examples of the alleged code. We are in a curious situation: should the case/evidence be public or not? Boye started going public because the official channels were failing. But now we have WBF suspending BZ without much public information that I have seen. I wonder what is going on. Anyway, I know for sure that if I was accused of such a thing (and was innocent), I would want everything to be absolutely as public as possible. Compare Mike Passel's response to his situation. That is what an innocent man sounds like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 While I agree that the pair should be suing,LOL this is jumping the gun. There is a fair chance they are guilty! Since when has that stopped anyone from suing? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 You must not have read Jassem's "article" about the B-Z allegations. I have a lot of sympathy for bridge players defending their team mates in the face of not yet substantiated allegations or rumours - as long as it's clear they are approaching the matter in good faith, and their desire is for the truth to come out. In my mind it's 100% clear that Welland and Auken were acting in good faith when they defended P-S before the confession. And it's 100% clear that it's not what Jassem did. (I could forgive him for having a sudden complete loss of hand evaluation skills and completely failing to be objective in evaluating these 6 hands. But to conclude by stating "...this report should end the B-Z case" is so utterly ridiculous for someone of his intellect that I can't believe it's just unconscious bias affecting his judgement.) I am hoping to be proven wrong...Jassem wrote that pamphlet to polish audience so they kept suporting, he didn't intend his audience to suddenly become all of the western world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (In all seriousness, I am rooting for Poland just because it promises maximum carnage)In all seriousness, I don't get such an attitude. I was hoping Poland would score exactly 0 VP in each of the RR matches. Not because I intrinsically have something against Poles, not at all. But I would prefer a situation without problems over a situation with problems. If Poland wouldn't score a single VP, they would not be in the knockouts, the effect of Poland playing on the standings for the other teams in the RR would have been minimal, and -should BZ be innocent- Poland could hardly claim that they wold have gotten anywhere with BZ. But some people just love a lot of problems so that they can see how others are failing to solve them. Rik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well, if it is a problem of their own making, I can see why someone might hope that the problem creates maximum fall out, to encourage a different approach in future like circumstances. Or I suppose Hrothgar may have shares in the popcorn industry :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I also hate conflict, but one possible non-sadistic interpretation is that the handling of this was so bad, that if Poland just lost outright, there would be no outcry to fix how the WBF actually handled it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I also hate conflict, but one possible non-sadistic interpretation is that the handling of this was so bad, that if Poland just lost outright, there would be no outcry to fix how the WBF actually handled it. Perhaps a graceful compromise would have been for Poland to perform as well as they could in the RR phase, and then give up their place in the knockouts. This would not be as good as their not playing at all, but a lot better than winning a medal and facing huge pressure to give it up. Of course we don't know why the WBF uninvited BZ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 But some people just love a lot of problems so that they can see how others are failing to solve them. I think that the existing system needs some major changes. I think that a shock to the system will do some good. I will also point out that I claimed that precisely this same set of issues existed well over a decade ago.More over, I also pointed a way out of the whole mess. I am happy that more people have come to accept the necessity for change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The WBF statement was just AMAZING. LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL. Trying to come to terms with watching these *****ers cheat on video and looking at the ***** championships theyve won and thinking about matches you've played or national events you've been second to them in, all that, ok, hard enough. BUT THEN THE WBF COMES OUT WITH A PURPOSELY ANTAGONIZING IDIOTIC ***** STATEMENT. Time to riot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The WBF statement was just AMAZING. LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL. BUT THEN THE WBF COMES OUT WITH A PURPOSELY ANTAGONIZING IDIOTIC ***** STATEMENT. Time to riot. I read it as an outright threat, and delivered by their lawyer no less. Them's fightin words and I'm in the mood for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Several pages from the WBF on the subject of cheating are in the final day's bulletin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Several pages from the WBF on the subject of cheating are in the final day's bulletin. I have long opposed efforts by various members of the ACBL Board to cut off funds from the WBF. Even at the start of the latest cheating scandal, I felt that this was misguided at best. The latest pronouncements from the WBF are the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. This has to be the most tone deaf, self absorbed piece of masturbatory clap trap that I have ever had the displeasure to read. From the tone deaf IOC reference to the veiled threats to its own player base, this articles shows an organization that has completely lost its way. At a time like this, the only way forward for an organization like the WBF is a sincere apology, followed by a realistic plan to improve on the current situation. If there is one thing the latest crowdsorcing effort has shown, it is that the creation of yet another committee that will operate in silence is unacceptable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 The WBF is our best hope for the future of Bridge. The WBF is right to deplore the witch-hunt approach to cheating. For the good of the game, however, the WBF should reform itself quickly. Law-makers should be less resistant to radical rule-simplification. Some rules seem unnecessary. Others seem to encourage their own infraction. Most are hard for players and directors to understand. This makes it easier for players to rationalize cheating. Rule-makers should make the laws simpler, clearer, less subjective, and more deterrent. For example, a streamlined version of the old appeal-system should replace the new review-protocol. IMO, Bridge would keep its basic nature but would be more fun. Players skilled in bidding and play would be less at the mercy of secretary-birds and cheats. An NBO shouldn't investigate its own alleged cheats. When its own administrators and local heroes are suspects, it is naive to expect justice to be seen to be done by an NBO. The WBF should take the leading role in defining and coordinating global protocols for the investigation and prosecution of alleged cheats in a fair and timely way. The WBF should try out suggestions, made here and elsewhere, to make cheating harder, at all levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomReynold Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 As I posted on Bridge Winners, if one has been the target of a false allegation in a serious matter, then the WBF's statement and condemnation of the communities activities makes perfect sense. Nevertheless, even though I have been the target (non Bridge related) I ask the question: "What was the community supposed to Do?" I fully understand that the evidenced has not been vetted, that withdrawing from the event should not create a presumption of guilt and having credentials revoked doesn't either. However, in the absence of a reasonable process to catch cheats, the community took measures in their own hands. I applaud them for it. But make no mistake about it. We have not yet caught a single cheat. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 As I posted on Bridge Winners, if one has been the target of a false allegation in a serious matter, then the WBF's statement and condemnation of the communities activities makes perfect sense. Nevertheless, even though I have been the target (non Bridge related) I ask the question: "What was the community supposed to Do?" I fully understand that the evidenced has not been vetted, that withdrawing from the event should not create a presumption of guilt and having credentials revoked doesn't either. However, in the absence of a reasonable process to catch cheats, the community took measures in their own hands. I applaud them for it. But make no mistake about it. We have not yet caught a single cheat. Tom You probably mean THEY have not caught a single cheat. Even though this process has been violent almost all bridge players interested can draw their own conclusions on whether F-S, F-N and P-S cheated or not. B-Z is another matter, as there hasn't been a clear hypotheses correctly tested to the satisfaction of most. But it is certainly true: They haven't caught a cheater yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 But make no mistake about it. We have not yet caught a single cheat. Tom You probably mean THEY have not caught a single cheat. Even though this process has been violent almost all bridge players interested can draw their own conclusions on whether F-S, F-N and P-S cheated or not. B-Z is another matter, as there hasn't been a clear hypotheses correctly tested to the satisfaction of most. But it is certainly true: They haven't caught a cheater yet. Really? Wasn't a pair "caught" in the 2013 d'Orsi Bowl (Seniors)? I'm sure I remember reading about that somewhere...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 One pair has admitted their guilt so I would suggest that qualifies as a pair having been caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Does anyone know how people get elected for WBF positions? Lack of resigns on WBF is making it look pretty similar to politicians in my country. They will hold power for as long as they can and that is their only concern. People are just those fools to deceive into voting them. Even worse, today's politis in my country whoever resigns is actually someone with enough honesty to be unable to stand things being done as badly as they are. So they should be the last ones to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Does anyone know how people get elected for WBF positions? Lack of resigns on WBF is making it look pretty similar to politicians in my country. They will hold power for as long as they can and that is their only concern. People are just those fools to deceive into voting them. Even worse, today's politis in my country whoever resigns is actually someone with enough honesty to be unable to stand things being done as badly as they are. So they should be the last ones to leave. One would think that the only sensible way forward for the WBF would be for pretty much everyone to resign. But their recent statement suggests that they are considering nothing of the sort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captyogi Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Does anyone know how people get elected for WBF positions? Lack of resigns on WBF is making it look pretty similar to politicians in my country. They will hold power for as long as they can and that is their only concern. People are just those fools to deceive into voting them. Even worse, today's politis in my country whoever resigns is actually someone with enough honesty to be unable to stand things being done as badly as they are. So they should be the last ones to leave. this is what i have copy pasted from BW Donald Mamula commented on the Bridge Winners content Statement by WBF ( Oct 9, 2015): ________________________________________The President, Vice-Presidents, Secretary and Treasurer must all be members of the WBF Executive. Interestingly, there is contradictory language (bolded by me) in the bylaws, but I guess that doesn't matter to their process. From the WBF Bylaws: 7.1 Officers. The officers of the WBF shall include a President, one or more Vice-Presidents, a Secretary, a Treasurer and a General Counsel. The Officers, other than the General Counsel and the President, shall be elected by the Executive at its regular meetings every four (4) years held in conjunction with each Bridge Championship commencing in 1978. Commencing with 2009, and every four years thereafter, the President shall be elected, but the term of office shall not begin until the end of the Championships the year following such election. The terms of the officers shall be for a period of four years and until their successors are elected and qualified; provided however, that < strong>if an election for President results in no successor being elected because no candidate has received at least 75% of the votes of the whole Executive, then the incumbent President’s term of office shall end without his successor being elected and qualified. Any two or more offices may be held by the same person, except the offices of President and Secretary. Each candidate for office shall be nominated and seconded by members of the Executive. Election of Officers shall be by secret ballot only if there is more than one candidate for the office. Newly elected officers shall assume office on the last day of the Championships at which they were elected except that if an office becomes vacant during the term of the officer, the newly elected officer shall assume office as soon as practicable after the predecessor officer has vacated the office. Election of any officer shall require the affirmative vote of a majority of the members of the Executive present at any meeting at which a quorum is present; and if there are more than two candidates for any office and none receives a majority vote on the first ballot, then those two candidates receiving the largest plurality of votes shall continue to stand as candidates with any others receiving a lesser number of votes being eliminated as candidates. Upon an officer (other than the General Counsel) ceasing to be a member of the Executive, such person shall no longer continue as an officer and the office shall be vacant until filled by the Executive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 That analysis could be more informative, if it explained how the Executive is appointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 So Executives name officers, only officers might become executives. Basically they name themselves as a typical oligarchy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Executive Council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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