Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Czbornik]

Well, if you are looking for mediocre I'm your guy!

"A man's gotta know his limitations." :)

[Winstonm]

The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it. - Gish Galloper

[pilowsky]

Brandolini's law

[pilowsky]

Apparently it isn't possible to teach children to read in Fla until all the books are checked for dangerous ideas.

Florida teachers forced to remove or cover up books to avoid felony charges

[Winstonm]

No surprise about Florida; spousal abusers make up a large voting block.

[kenberg]

This stuff about books comes up from time to time and, as usual, I reflect on my own experience.

 

The only book my mother ever forbade me to read was one that explained how I could make my own fireworks. I was 12 or so, maybe 11. I found the book in the St. Paul public library, not the school library.

 

Suppose such a book is in the school library, a kid could just take it from the shelf and read it. Some parents, my mother, for example, would object. If the librarian thinks it's a good book, it teaches chemistry, he won't remove it, then should the parents have a say on this?

 

The question is not entirely academic. When I was a teen some youngsters of about my age were doing some chemical stuff in a garage and it led to an explosion. Serious injury at least, I can't recall if anyone died. I didn't know them.

 

There is a rating system for movies. My younger daughter loved horror movies when she was 10 or so. I would have to take her or they would not let her in, and I am sure there were some that would not let her in even if I were with her.

 

I think 16-year-olds should be free to read whatever they want, but not 10-year-olds.

 

And whatever they are allowed to read at whatever age, I think they are then free to have their own opinion about it.

 

Anyway, I expect that most parents of 10-year-old children believe that they should have some say in what their children are allowed to read, what they are required to read, and what they are expected to agree, or to say they agree, with. This seems obvious to me, and if it were accepted as obvious by everyone then a better discussion might ensue. It won't solve all problems, some parents are nuts, impossible to work with, but it might be a start.

[pilowsky]

Excellent point.

There's a danger that children of Floridians will start building IED's, learn how to produce anthrax, or purify cocaine, if they're permitted to read instruction manuals like these books banned in Florida schools:

 

Cow on the Town: Practicing the Ow Sound, by Isabella Garcia

Dreamers, by Yuyi Morales

Dumpling Soup, by Jama Kim Rattigan, and Lillian Hsu-Flanders

Fry Bread: A Native American Family Story, by Kevin Noble Maillard and Juana Martinez-Neal

Perhaps 'dumpling soup' is some sort of code.

 

[Czbornik]

No surprise about Florida; spousal abusers make up a large voting block.

Can you please provide substantive statistics to back up this claim? I am considering moving to Florida and I don't want to move into a state full of wife beaters (or husband beaters). I anxiously await your answer. Thank you in advance.

[Winstonm]

Can you please provide substantive statistics to back up this claim? I am considering moving to Florida and I don't want to move into a state full of wife beaters (or husband beaters). I anxiously await your answer. Thank you in advance.

It’s a simple matter of extrapolation. Florida is now a red state. Republicans want to control what other people can do. Many people in Florida vote Republican. The essence of spousal abuse is control . Ergo, there you go. :-)

[Czbornik]

It’s a simple matter of extrapolation. Florida is now a red state. Republicans want to control what other people can do. Many people in Florida vote Republican. The essence of spousal abuse is control . Ergo, there you go. :-)

"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." :rolleyes:

[kenberg]

Excellent point.

There's a danger that children of Floridians will start building IED's, learn how to produce anthrax, or purify cocaine, if they're permitted to read instruction manuals like these books banned in Florida schools:

 

Cow on the Town: Practicing the Ow Sound, by Isabella Garcia

Dreamers, by Yuyi Morales

Dumpling Soup, by Jama Kim Rattigan, and Lillian Hsu-Flanders

Fry Bread: A Native American Family Story, by Kevin Noble Maillard and Juana Martinez-Neal

 

Perhaps 'dumpling soup' is some sort of code.

 

 

Practicing the ow sound(s)

 

When I am feeling low

I talk with my cow

And I dream of snow

It helps me somehow

The winds then blow

It's true I vow

 

 

I will now take a bow

[Winstonm]

In math

I was last

but fast enough

to know

where to go

to drop the class

[Cyberyeti]

I will now take a bow

 

This is the little word that tripped up a lot of continental Europeans in the Wellerman craze, almost all of them pronounced the bow of a ship as beau rather than bough.

[kenberg]

This is the little word that tripped up a lot of continental Europeans in the Wellerman craze, almost all of them pronounced the bow of a ship as beau rather than bough.

 

And I could sit on a bough with my beau holding my bow and arrow.

 

English is a seriously strange language.

 

In the 1940s there was a comic book character Robotman. We (friends and I) had discussions about pronunciation. Row-boat-man or rob-bot-man? Or rob-boat-man?

[Czbornik]

'The Cow'

The cow is of the bovine ilk;

One end is moo, the other, milk

 

Ogden Nash

[pilowsky]

It might be too early to archive this thread.

Polling appears to suggest that Trump has a stonking lead against all-comers in the Republican primaries.

On the other side, Trump is running neck and neck with most Democratic (in both senses of the word) contenders.

 

 

Like Trump - she was also an actor.

[Winstonm]

It might be too early to archive this thread.

Polling appears to suggest that Trump has a stonking lead against all-comers in the Republican primaries.

On the other side, Trump is running neck and neck with most Democratic (in both senses of the word) contenders.

 

 

Like Trump - she was also an actor.

 

He’s also running from the DOJ.

 

Winston

[Czbornik]

Polling appears to suggest that Trump has a stonking lead against all-comers in the Republican primaries.

 

Please define "stonking".

[pilowsky]

Please define "stonking".

 

Much bigger than is safe for democracy.

[thepossum]

Please define "stonking".

 

I think it means the world is in a very sad place - the caliber of political options

 

I have my own very cynical (and likely not unique) view on the function of democracy, and the way some like to keep conflict and distrust and some like to prevent it

Some like to keep things extreme and some don't

I'm no expert. It's just what I observe and have experienced. It's a sad way to control a planet

I won't go any further on my views, for risks to my own safety and well-being

 

EDITED out rather long boring rant about the world

[kenberg]

Googling stonking I found

 

• used to emphasize something remarkable, exciting, or very large."a stonking 207 mph maximum speed"

 

 

Googling stonk:

 

VERB (transitive)

1. to bombard (soldiers, buildings, etc) with artillery

NOUN

2. a concentrated bombardment by artillery

 

See https://www.collinsd...y/english/stonk

So I suppose aggressive and substantial is about what it means as used in the above post. I had never heard the word before. That's not unusual.

 

The problem as I see it: A fair sized number of Republicans, perhaps 40%, have no problem whatsoever with Trump lying about the election and instigating an attack on the capitol. The other 60% have varied thoughts of whom to support. So 40% might get him the nomination. Many of the 60% who voted for someone other than Trump in the primary still will not vote for Biden, or for any D, in the general election. And then we have the Electoral College to further screw things up. And if this isn't enough, well, there is still election denial and mobs.

 

In short, we are up a serious creek.

[Czbornik]

In short, we are up a serious creek.

Would you care to expound?

[barmar]

In short, we are up a serious creek.

One bit of good news from the 2022 elections -- most anti-democratic candidates for state offices (governors and AGs) lost their elections.

[kenberg]

Would you care to expound?

 

Well, I could try. I guess the Constitution is coming up on a 235th birthday. The design came from idealism, practicality and self-interest. The designers were neither stupid nor evil, but not perfect either, and designing a government is difficult. Cynicism and self-interest will always be with us, and it seems to be pretty dominant these days.

 

"Up a creek without a paddle" indicates that a solution is difficult to see. To be a solution, as I intend the meaning, there must be a plausible way to arrive at that solution, something that works even with people remaining as people are . I hope we will find it.

 

I don't know if this is even remotely what you had in mind with your suggestion to expound, and I don't claim it to be original thinking.

[Czbornik]

I hope we will find it.

 

So do I. But I'm highly skeptical. As I see it right now, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum.