Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Winstonm]

Every time Peter Thiel opens his mouth I think about this Bible verse: “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I thought as a child, I understood as a child.”

[pilowsky]

Every time Peter Thiel opens his mouth I think about this Bible verse: "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I thought as a child, I understood as a child."

 

He's an impressive intellect for sure: I learned a new word from him - had to look it up in the Urban dictionary.

[kenberg]

 

Here is something I don't understand. I posted above about Doug Mastriano, Republican candidate for governor in Pennsylvania. Mastriano is a retired U.S. Army Colonel. He served for 31 years. Presumably, he, like me, was educated and raised in the United States. He, like me, would have been introduced over and over the notion that the fascists and Nazis were the enemies of freedom and democracy. I still believe this is so. Apparently, somewhere along the way Mastriano changed his mind and now embraces Trumpian fascism and denounces the democratic process that risks producing results of which he disagrees. He would prefer to do away with the elections as called for by the Constitution and instead hand-pick electors for the electoral college who would then cast Pennsylvania's 20 votes for the candidates for whom he subscribes.

 

This is a totally un-American viewpoint. He has-in his mind and worldview-found something more important to him the American democracy. This is most likely either white entitlement or Christian Nationalism, which tend to overlap anyway. There are candidates like him all over the country, many in local elections that will eventually be able to pick electors. The goal is to overturn the will of the voters.

 

I don't care how they are defeated. If it takes dirty tricks I don't care. These are not normal times. I submit you are trying to be a gentleman and bring boxing gloves to a gunfight.

 

I acknowledge that a large part of my thinking comes down to "This isn't right". But as to strategy, a bit of browsing shows that there are Dem strategists who don't think well of this either. Their reasons seem to be somewhat different from mine, I'll explain mine.

 

Larry Hogan became governor in 2014 and was re-elected in 2018. He was no Trumpee, not at all, and maybe he wasn't great but he was good enough to be elected twice. Maryland elects a lot of Democrats. So, what should the Ds do about 2022?

Possibility 1: Run a strong D candidate. That should take care of matters, no matter who wins the R nomination.

Possibility 2: Try to tilt the R primary so that Cox wins, the idea being that even a weak D candidate can beat him.

The Democratic Governors Association decided to go with the second idea, in Maryland and elsewhere.

My comments so far are history, now I speculate about November.

 

With a strong D candidate, that candidate wins. It's a D state. With a weak D candidate, of course the voter will not switch to Cox. But will the voter vote? (Skip the linguistical argument that they are not a voter if they don't vote. By voter I mean someone who usually does vote.) Some voters might be just enough ticked off at the Dems for following Possibility 2 instead of Possibility 1 that they decide to punish Ds by not voting. A far more likely reason is that people are really tired of voting for X on the grounds that at least X is not as awful as Y. At any rate, the D thinking is "Oh goodie, we get to run against Cox. Cox clearly can't win no matter who our candidate is". Yeah. Trump couldn't win in 2016 either.

 

I think that the extreme cynicism of going with Possibility 2 naively ignores how ordinary people actually think and act. The strategists might not like the results.

 

But yes, my first objection and my main objection is that going with Possibility 2 is a disgusting approach to politics. As a Democrat, I hate to see my party follow that approach.

[Winstonm]

I acknowledge that a large part of my thinking comes down to "This isn't right". But as to strategy, a bit of browsing shows that there are Dem strategists who don't think well of this either. Their reasons seem to be somewhat different from mine, I'll explain mine.

 

Larry Hogan became governor in 2014 and was re-elected in 2018. He was no Trumpee, not at all, and maybe he wasn't great but he was good enough to be elected twice. Maryland elects a lot of Democrats. So, what should the Ds do about 2022?

Possibility 1: Run a strong D candidate. That should take care of matters, no matter who wins the R nomination.

Possibility 2: Try to tilt the R primary so that Cox wins, the idea being that even a weak D candidate can beat him.

The Democratic Governors Association decided to go with the second idea, in Maryland and elsewhere.

My comments so far are history, now I speculate about November.

 

With a strong D candidate, that candidate wins. It's a D state. With a weak D candidate, of course the voter will not switch to Cox. But will the voter vote? (Skip the linguistical argument that they are not a voter if they don't vote. By voter I mean someone who usually does vote.) Some voters might be just enough ticked off at the Dems for following Possibility 2 instead of Possibility 1 that they decide to punish Ds by not voting. A far more likely reason is that people are really tired of voting for X on the grounds that at least X is not as awful as Y. At any rate, the D thinking is "Oh goodie, we get to run against Cox. Cox clearly can't win no matter who our candidate is". Yeah. Trump couldn't win in 2016 either.

 

I think that the extreme cynicism of going with Possibility 2 naively ignores how ordinary people actually think and act. The strategists might not like the results.

 

But yes, my first objection and my main objection is that going with Possibility 2 is a disgusting approach to politics. As a Democrat, I hate to see my party follow that approach.

 

 

 

I still do not think you and many others have quite assimilated the reality that the Republican party is an imminent threat to democracies here and worldwide. The Republican party now has gone full-blown authoritarian fascist and have no interest in facilitating the orderly transfer of power. This is a party that must be crushed, not beaten, and it is indeed warfare in which we are engaged.

[Winstonm]

He's an impressive intellect for sure: I learned a new word from him - had to look it up in the Urban dictionary.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Peter_Thiel

 

The Education of a Libertarian

Peter Thiel • April 13, 2009 •

I remain committed to the faith of my teenage years: to authentic human freedom as a precondition for the highest good. I stand against confiscatory taxes, totalitarian collectives, and the ideology of the inevitability of the death of every individual. For all these reasons, I still call myself "libertarian."

 

But I must confess that over the last two decades, I have changed radically on the question of how to achieve these goals. Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. By tracing out the development of my thinking, I hope to frame some of the challenges faced by all classical liberals today.

 

my empasis

https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian/

 

[Gilithin]

I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible

Putin is so misunderstood - he is really just a libertarian giving freedom to the Russian people.

[Winstonm]

PS: I was thinking of expatriating to Pluto but since its downgrade I doubt it qualifies for public assistance programs, however, a little alliteration is likely.

[Winstonm]

Putin is so misunderstood - he is really just a libertarian giving freedom to the Russian people.

 

I think the telling quote is this: “I remain committed to the faith of my teenage years.”

I have been told that AA teaches that alcoholics remain at the same emotional level as the age when they first began to drink, I have come to the conclusion that there are no substance problems only problems of development.

Which explains how we just had a child in the White House.

[y66]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/22/opinion/italy-draghi-meloni-government.html?te=1&nl=opinion-today&emc=edit_ty_20220722

 

ROME — “If this is to end in fire, then we should all burn together.”

 

These ominous words aren’t from an apocalyptic poem: They’re from a politician’s memoir. Giorgia Meloni, the leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, opened her 2021 book with this strange call to arms, eschewing the more prosaic style favored by most politicians. But then Ms. Meloni, whose party carries the symbol adopted by defeated lieutenants of the Mussolini regime and describes itself as “post-fascist,” is hardly a mainstream political figure.

 

At least, she didn’t used to be. Yet just two months after Ms. Meloni published her best-selling memoir, her party topped national opinion polls for the first time. Since then, it has continued to boast over 20 percent support and has provided the only major opposition to Mario Draghi’s technocratic coalition. On Wednesday, in a sudden turn of events, the government collapsed. Early elections, due in the fall, could open the way for the Brothers of Italy to become the first far-right party to lead a major eurozone economy. For Europe and the country, it would be a truly seismic event.

 

It would also mark a remarkable rise for a party that in 2018 secured just 4 percent of the vote. At its heart is Ms. Meloni itself, who skillfully blends fears of civilizational decline with folksy anecdotes about her relationships with her family, God and Italy itself. Conversant with pop culture and fond of referencing J.R.R. Tolkien — the line in her memoir, from an Ed Sheeran song that soundtracks a film in the Hobbit series, combines the two — Ms. Meloni presents herself as an unusually down-to-earth politician.

 

But the Brothers of Italy doesn’t just owe its success to toning down its message. It’s also the beneficiary of a much wider breakdown of the barriers between the traditional center-right and the insurgent far right, playing out across Western Europe and America. Heavily indebted, socially polarized and politically unstable, Italy is just the country where the process is most advanced. If you want to know what the future may hold, it’s a good place to look.

Perhaps we will not all burn together in the fire. But if the far right takes over the government, in Italy or elsewhere, some of us surely will.

[y66]

The Jan. 6 Hearings Hit the Bull’s-Eye

 

What was once billed as six hearings over two-plus weeks by the House Select Committee investigating the attack on the US Capitol of Jan. 6, 2021 has now reached a break after eight hearings, stretched out over more than a month, with more promised in September. The committee has done about as good a job with that time as possible.

 

It’s found a way to take a well-known story of a president who attempted to overturn an election and keep the focus on the big picture of exactly what former President Donald Trump and his allies did to undermine the republic, while at the same time filling in lots of relevant and fascinating new details. The inquiry also planted within that story a number of sidebars likely to spark interest from the press and in social media.

 

Thursday night’s unnecessary but entertaining example was a swipe at Missouri Senator Josh Hawley, who famously raised a fist in solidarity with the mob — only, as the committee showed with new footage, to run for his life from the rioters a few hours later. It was a perfect made-for-social, comic-relief moment while taking nothing away from the seriousness of the proceedings.

 

So the committee is doing well. Does it matter? Yeah. It does.

 

One obvious audience going into the hearings were the journalists in the non-aligned media. For them, the hearings are basically a framing operation: The committee is trying to get them to cover Trump and his allies as opponents of democracy, rather than as opponents of Democrats. As long as the story is Democrats against Republicans, non-aligned media are going to be tempted to treat the story as if both sides should be treated as equals. But if the story is Trump against democracy, then those same journalists will be more comfortable siding with democracy.

 

That kind of framing was helped by giving the two Republicans on the committee, especially Wyoming’s Liz Cheney, a central role. On Thursday, with Committee Chair Bennie Thompson isolating with a mild case of Covid-19, Cheney (and not the next-ranking Democrat) presided. It’s been helped, too, by the parade of former Trump administration officials who are testifying against the former president. But it’s been helped most by just holding the attention of politics professionals and forcing them to reckon with how badly Trump violated his oath of office, and how monstrous his actions were.

 

A second audience was those Republican party actors who are neither die-hard Trump fans nor never-Trumpers — those Republicans who recognize what Trump is, but have usually gone along with him and his supporters for a variety of reasons. For them, the big case to make is that Trump is more dangerous to the party than to those in the party who oppose him. It’s not clear whether the hearings are having much effect on them or not. If Trump has lost support from this cohort, it may be more because of his limited success promoting candidates during the 2022 primaries. But his inability to put the 2020 election behind him doesn’t seem to be helping him with this group within the party.

 

And that points to an important audience that I didn’t recognize going in: Trump himself. Perhaps he would be focused on 2020, anyway. But surely the committee is helping fix his attention there. That means that Trump has been attacking Cheney and the Republican witnesses, which doesn’t do Republicans trying to win the 2022 midterms any good. It probably makes the case that Trump is yesterday’s news more compelling (even though, as we learned in the wobbly outtakes from a Trump statement recorded on Jan. 7, 2021, Trump finds “yesterday” a hard word to say). With the conditions otherwise excellent for a strong Republican midterm performance in November, the hearings are a good reminder of how disruptive Trump can be for his own party.

 

Plenty of Republican party actors are still solidly in Trump’s camp. The best comic relief from Thursday night’s session came from the House Republicans’ Twitter account, which declared early in the hearing, “This is all heresy.” The social-media managers eventually managed to replace “heresy” with “hearsay,” which was scarcely more accurate. There’s a ton of first-hand evidence; many of those who could give first-hand evidence are refusing to testify; and this isn’t a trial, but a congressional hearing.

 

But “heresy” perfectly captured the sense of cultish belief in Trump as the only defense his supporters have. Almost two years after Trump lost the 2020 election, he’s still claiming against all the evidence that he won in a landslide, despite having been told by all of his own campaign professionals that he lost.

 

Republicans can choose to avoid heresy and stick with Trump. But they know where that got them. And Cheney and her colleagues on the Jan. 6 committee are doing what they can to remind them.

[y66]

Bannon guilty. I'm glad they didn't waste a lot of time deliberating. Next.

[y66]

It’s great to see the president doing better. He’s doing better because he’s vaccinated, he’s boosted, he’s getting treatment.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/07/22/world/covid-19-biden-news?name=styln-coronavirus&region=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=LegacyCollection&variant=show&is_new=false&te=1&nl=coronavirus-briefing&emc=edit_cb_20220722#biden-covid-symptoms

[pilowsky]

PS: I was thinking of expatriating to Pluto but since its downgrade I doubt it qualifies for public assistance programs, however, a little alliteration is likely.

 

Probably governed by a plutocrat.

[y66]

Poultry in motion.

[kenberg]

Bloomberg has an article that gives some encouragement, I quote a bit of it:

 

 

“I think it’s time to move on,” a two-time Trump voter and a woman, said in a focus group of MAGA Republicans about a week after the first hearing in June. The focus group was organized by GOP strategist and never-Trumper Sarah Longwell.

 

In another focus group of hers, this time with voters who supported Trump in 2020 but not in 2016, one female voter said: “They keep talking about the results of the election and I feel like even when he's doing his roadshow, he keeps bringing that up, like it's, you know, a grudge.” The woman added, “I just feel like we've moved past that.”

 

 

Let's assume for the moment that Republicans are sufficiently fed up with Trump to choose a different candidate in 2024. Mike Pence, perhaps. He has some hero status for standing up to Trump, risking his life actually, during the insurrection. Care must be taken with optimism. I look at the two quotes “I think it’s time to move on” and “I just feel like we've moved past that”. My conclusion is that Democrats need to have a 2024 strategy that also moves beyond Jan 6. Quite possibly Biden should be replaced. I am open to discussion on that. I think it is essential that Democrats approach 2024 looking toward the future, explaining why the Democratic candidate, whoever it is, is better for the future than the Republican candidate, whoever it is. If, as I hope, the Republicans are prepared to dump Trump and move on, I would expect voters to expect the candidates from both parties to do so. Biden could run against Trump and succeed. If the 2024 Republican candidate is not Trump, running against Trump will not be a good strategy.

 

 

[Winstonm]

Probably governed by a plutocrat.

👍

[Winstonm]

Bloomberg has an article that gives some encouragement, I quote a bit of it:

 

 

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Let's assume for the moment that Republicans are sufficiently fed up with Trump to choose a different candidate in 2024. Mike Pence, perhaps. He has some hero status for standing up to Trump, risking his life actually, during the insurrection. Care must be taken with optimism. I look at the two quotes “I think it’s time to move on” and “I just feel like we've moved past that”. My conclusion is that Democrats need to have a 2024 strategy that also moves beyond Jan 6. Quite possibly Biden should be replaced. I am open to discussion on that. I think it is essential that Democrats approach 2024 looking toward the future, explaining why the Democratic candidate, whoever it is, is better for the future than the Republican candidate, whoever it is. If, as I hope, the Republicans are prepared to dump Trump and move on, I would expect voters to expect the candidates from both parties to do so. Biden could run against Trump and succeed. If the 2024 Republican candidate is not Trump, running against Trump will not be a good strategy.

Although it is really hard to unseat an incumbent president, I still prefer Sharod Brown or Newsom. I think the Democrats need a more vigorous voice, someone who doesn’t seek compromise with those compromised.

[johnu]

Poultry in motion.

Looked like Josh Hawley to me :lol:

 

The only question is whether there will be a Hawley running brigade at the next Pasadena Doo Dah parade.

[Winstonm]

Looked like Josh Hawley to me :lol:

 

The only question is whether there will be a Hawley running brigade at the next Pasadena Doo Dah parade.

Hawleying ass.Just joshing.

[pilowsky]

.

[Winstonm]

When I've brought this subject up before it hasn't caused much of a stir, Perhaps now that it has climbed into mainstream headlines, a little more about this risk might be considered.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/24/us/white-christian-nationalism-blake-cec/index.html

 

The insurrection marked the first time many Americans realized the US is facing a burgeoning White Christian nationalist movement. This movement uses Christian language to cloak sexism and hostility to Black people and non-White immigrants in its quest to create a White Christian America.

[kenberg]

I found this interesting. Isenberg suggests that Bien announce now that he will not seek re-election in 2024.

 

here is a way he could describe it: "In 2020 we face a crisis. It was essential to have a known and electable candidate on the Democratic ballot. In 2024 I hope we have a strong, reasonable, and younger Democratic candidate running against a strong, reasonable, and younger Republican candidate. That is once how things were, I very much hope that we can return to that way of life. I described myself as a transition candidate, 2024 is the time to complete the transition. "

 

Or something like that. Isenberg notes that Biden has accomplishments to be proud of. True enough. And a graceful exit could be another.

[Winstonm]

I found this interesting. Isenberg suggests that Bien announce now that he will not seek re-election in 2024.

 

here is a way he could describe it: "In 2020 we face a crisis. It was essential to have a known and electable candidate on the Democratic ballot. In 2024 I hope we have a strong, reasonable, and younger Democratic candidate running against a strong, reasonable, and younger Republican candidate. That is once how things were, I very much hope that we can return to that way of life. I described myself as a transition candidate, 2024 is the time to complete the transition. "

 

Or something like that. Isenberg notes that Biden has accomplishments to be proud of. True enough. And a graceful exit could be another.

 

I would rather hold the House and gain 2 more Senators and let the Republicans try to unseat an incumbent president,

[pilowsky]

You will never have a democracy with a minoritarian Senate, an unaccountable supreme court that changes the rules on a whim, and a gerrymandered house of representatives.

The situation is made worse in the absence of a functioning independent electoral commision to avoid gerrymandering.

Now that the US Supreme court has decided that it has no business interfering with the whims of good ole boys,

The Supreme Court on Monday allowed Alabama to implement a redistricting plan that is being challenged as illegal racial gerrymandering. A lower court ruled last month that the state's new congressional map likely violates the Voting Rights Act, and it ordered the state to draw a new map. But the Supreme Court in a 5-4 decision put the lower court's ruling on hold, effectively allowing Alabama to proceed with its preferred map as it prepares for primary elections in May.

democracy is even further away.

 

When the white slave-traders got together to make a republic in order to avoid paying taxes, democracy was not high on their list of priorities.

At the time considerably fewer than half of the adult population was permitted to cast a vote.

The current Republican party appears to take the original documents very seriously.

It is hard to take democracy in the USA seriously.

 

 

A theocratic gerontocracy perhaps? With the progressive wing manchin to the beat of different drummer.

[y66]

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Peter_Thiel

The Enigma of Peter Thiel There Is No Enigma — He's a Fascist

 

He’s just realized, more clearly than his opponents often, that there’s ultimately a contradiction between the rule of capital and democracy, and the way to deal with this contradiction, as far as he’s concerned, is to do away with democracy.

The Thiel concept is that this settlement is unacceptable, and you need to wield populism as a mask with which to destroy democracy — and then it can be discarded in pursuit of a capitalism unbound by democratic regulation.

 

To me this is a crazy bet — there are lots of successful variations on the theme of welfare state capitalism while the odds on “roll the dice and hope you end up with Singapore instead of North Korea” look awfully bad.