Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[barmar]

Mike, first of all thank you for adding your lawyerly insight for us, the non-lawyers. What do you think of the argument I saw recently that privacy, although not enumerated specifically in the U.S. Constitution but as I understand it the basis of Roe v Wade, must be an implied premise of the 4th Amendment rights to be secure in persons and papers?

I believe the argument by pro-lifers is that the unborn child also has this right, and aborting them denies them their right to life.

 

If you ever listen to interviews of these people, they never use words like "fetus" that suggest that the unborn are anything less than human.

[kenberg]

From https://civilservice...-the-president/

 

Presumably they have standard procedures for routine activities. So if POTUS frequently goes to McDonald's, they know how to handle this. OTOH, they may need to decide quickly about requests to go to an insurrection.

 

Thanks for the reference. The whole article was interesting. Apparently the basis for the the Secret Service interfering in the president's wishes should be based on national security. Eg

One of the most noteworthy overrides of the President’s wishes by the Secret Service is when former President George W. Bush wished to return to Washington D.C. after the 9/11 attack to the Twin Towers in New York.

I guess doing something really stupid is ok unless it interferes with national security. Marilyn Monroe? Boys will be boys. And as I mentioned during the Bill Clinton days, I don't see how anyone can prefer a Big Mac to a Whopper.

[pilowsky]

Then you have to wonder what they were thinking when they let Dubya land an aircraft on an aircraft carrier in a war zone.

[Winstonm]

I believe the argument by pro-lifers is that the unborn child also has this right, and aborting them denies them their right to life.

 

If you ever listen to interviews of these people, they never use words like "fetus" that suggest that the unborn are anything less than human.

 

Those who do so are religious nuts, emphasis on the nuts because when it comes to what they believe there cannot be any talk, discussion, or debate; only perpetual backslapping for other faithful.

[Winstonm]

Thanks for the reference. The whole article was interesting. Apparently the basis for the the Secret Service interfering in the president's wishes should be based on national security. Eg

 

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I guess doing something really stupid is ok unless it interferes with national security. Marilyn Monroe? Boys will be boys. And as I mentioned during the Bill Clinton days, I don't see how anyone can prefer a Big Mac to a Whopper.

Obviously, Monica Lewinsky did not.

[Winstonm]

Welcome to the new U.S. theocracy:

 

 

In trainings, Florida tells teachers that religion belongs in public life

[hrothgar]

Then you have to wonder what they were thinking when they let Dubya land an aircraft on an aircraft carrier in a war zone.

 

W was a passenger, not the pilot

[y66]

RICHMOND — Gov. Glenn Youngkin flew to New York last week to meet privately with GOP megadonors in Manhattan, a move that underscores recent hints that the Republican is considering a run for president in 2024.

 

The day-long visit, which was not listed on Youngkin’s public calendar and included a trio of national TV interviews, comes as the new governor prepares to headline his first out-of-state political event since taking office, with an appearance next week in Nebraska. He also has begun speaking more often about the needs of “Americans,” not just “Virginians,” and has subtly changed how he answers questions about whether he will seek the White House.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/06/29/youngkin-virginia-2024-president/

[johnu]

Then you have to wonder what they were thinking when they let Dubya land an aircraft on an aircraft carrier in a war zone.

 

I personally enjoy San Diego, but yes, there are some rough parts of town where you can get into some trouble. The carrier was 30 miles outside of port so if Bush had waited a couple of hours he could have walked up the boarding plank but being flown onto a carrier in an anti-submarine jet was a PR stroke of genius. Fortunately the captain turned the ship back to sea so that downtown San Diego wouldn't show up in the background.

[pilowsky]

I personally enjoy San Diego, but yes, there are some rough parts of town where you can get into some trouble. The carrier was 30 miles outside of port so if Bush had waited a couple of hours he could have walked up the boarding plank but being flown onto a carrier in an anti-submarine jet was a PR stroke of genius. Fortunately the captain turned the ship back to sea so that downtown San Diego wouldn't show up in the background.

 

I've been to SD many times.

I'm not surprised he tried to invade it.

[Winstonm]

I've been to SD many times.

I'm not surprised he tried to invade it.

And after watching him for 8 years, I am unsurprised he failed.

[Winstonm]

How much longer until this SCOTUS rules criticism of its rulings is not protected free speech.

[kenberg]

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe. Biden speaks of Congress passing laws to protect abortion rights. That would be great, but it sure won't be happening tomorrow and it won't be happening just because Biden says so. Perhaps there will be a strong push from the public for a national legislative solution but it will have to come from the ground up. I very much hope that it does. The pre-Roe poll cited earlier that showed sixty-plus percent of Republicans supporting choice is of interest. At one time, Republicans were conservative, and in part that meant they thought people should be allowed to use their own judgment rather than do whatever the government told them to do. A different era, but maybe there are some who still think that adults, both men and women, should get to make their own choices.

 

Prediction is really tough on this issue. I can imagine young people, as they become adults and make choices, being willing to live in some states and not in others. Living in one state and then, if in need of an abortion, traveling to another state and then traveling back, is, among many other things, humiliating. And there is the Mann Act to worry about. It has been modified but is still worrisome. It seems to me that the new reality could play a strong role in where people choose to live. Maybe another country, this one seems to have lost its way. Mostly I predict that this will not end well. I'm an 83 year old male and I find the situation abhorrent. A young woman? I can barely imagine what she must be thinking. Nothing good.

[Winstonm]

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe. Biden speaks of Congress passing laws to protect abortion rights. That would be great, but it sure won't be happening tomorrow and it won't be happening just because Biden says so. Perhaps there will be a strong push from the public for a national legislative solution but it will have to come from the ground up. I very much hope that it does. The pre-Roe poll cited earlier that showed sixty-plus percent of Republicans supporting choice is of interest. At one time, Republicans were conservative, and in part that meant they thought people should be allowed to use their own judgment rather than do whatever the government told them to do. A different era, but maybe there are some who still think that adults, both men and women, should get to make their own choices.

 

Prediction is really tough on this issue. I can imagine young people, as they become adults and make choices, being willing to live in some states and not in others. Living in one state and then, if in need of an abortion, traveling to another state and then traveling back, is, among many other things, humiliating. And there is the Mann Act to worry about. It has been modified but is still worrisome. It seems to me that the new reality could play a strong role in where people choose to live. Maybe another country, this one seems to have lost its way. Mostly I predict that this will not end well. I'm an 83 year old male and I find the situation abhorrent. A young woman? I can barely imagine what she must be thinking. Nothing good.

 

It appears to me as if U.S. politics has splintered into 4 or even more groups: Conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, Radicals. Radical Democrats, and Radical Republicans (Fascists).

Instead of having to form a government as in a parliamentary system, our 2-party system allows a minority to usurp the power without need for compromise. Perhaps this is what Franklin foresaw when he said, "A republic if you can keep it."

 

Starring America as Blanche Dubois: "Whoever you are-I've always depended upon the kindness of strangers."

How did that work out, Blanche?

[Winstonm]

You gotta love how our ace, crackerjack media news organizations are about to pee themselves because somebody not under oath said Trump didn't lunge. The witness never said he lunged, she said this is what she was told that occurred. No one is refuting that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol to lead the insurrection. I guess that's not newsworthy I'm not sure when I'm gonna mow the yard whenever it gets long enough the end

[Winstonm]

Moore v Harper next year in the SCOTUS could end the United States as a democratic republic. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Unless, of course, you're a fascist.

[pilowsky]

Moore v Harper next year in the SCOTUS could end the United States as a "democratic" republic. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Unless, of course, you're a fascist.

The US is a theocracy. With an

preventing meaningful reform.

 

[Winstonm]

The US is a theocracy. With an

preventing meaningful reform.

 

Rapidly becoming a theocratic oligarchy,

[pilowsky]

We just had the results of the 2021 census reported - you can download any of it at www.abs.gov.au.

Hours of fun.

 

Interest in religion in Australia is sinking fast.

I suspect the numbers are over-inflated since many people will 'affiliate' without having any 'bearded-man-in-a-white-robe' type religious belief.

The 2021 Census has revealed increasing diversity in the religions Australians identified, reflecting continuing changes in our social attitudes and belief systems.

 

Christianity is the most common religion in Australia, with over 40 per cent (43.9 per cent) identifying as Christian. This has reduced from over 50 per cent (52.1 per cent) in 2016 and from over 60 per cent (61.1 per cent) in 2011. As in earlier Censuses, the largest Christian denominations are Catholic (20.0 per cent of the population) and Anglican (9.8 per cent).

 

While fewer people are reporting their religion as Christian, more are reporting ‘no religion’. Almost 40 per cent (38.9 per cent) of Australia’s population reported having no religion in the 2021 Census, an increase from 30 per cent (30.1 per cent) in 2016 and 22 per cent (22.3 per cent) in 2011.

 

Other religions are growing but continue to make up a small proportion of the population. Hinduism has grown by 55.3 per cent to 684,002 people, or 2.7 per cent of the population. Islam has grown to 813,392 people, which is 3.2 per cent of the Australian population.

 

Dr David Gruen AO, Australian Statistician, said “The religion question holds a special place in the Census – it is one of the few topics that has been in every one of Australia’s 18 Censuses and is the only question that is voluntary.

 

Despite being voluntary, we saw an increase in the proportion of people answering the question, from 91 per cent in 2016 to 93 per cent in 2021.

 

 

 

[hrothgar]

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe.

 

I regret to say that the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with having 50 votes in the Senate.

 

The only thing that the Democrats can do is to try and mobilize voters for the fall elections.

 

If the Dem keep the House and have 52 votes in the Senate then they can pass Federal Laws protecting the right to privacy

If the Dems have 52 votes in the Senate (but lose the House) then they can pack the Supreme Court.

 

If the Dems have 50 votes in the Senate then we hope that some Supreme Court justices die.

 

However, there really isn't all that much that can be done here (much as a I wish things were different)

 

FWIW, I was in favor of packing the Supreme Court a year and a half ago

Biden didn't have the votes (and at the time didn't have the will)

[kenberg]

I regret to say that I think the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with the reversal of Roe.

I regret to say that the Dems, very much including Biden, have not been all that realistic about dealing with having 50 votes in the Senate.

 

The only thing that the Democrats can do is to try and mobilize voters for the fall elections.

 

If the Dem keep the House and have 52 votes in the Senate then they can pass Federal Laws protecting the right to privacy

If the Dems have 52 votes in the Senate (but lose the House) then they can pack the Supreme Court.

 

If the Dems have 50 votes in the Senate then we hope that some Supreme Court justices die.

 

However, there really isn't all that much that can be done here (much as a I wish things were different)

 

FWIW, I was in favor of packing the Supreme Court a year and a half ago

Biden didn't have the votes (and at the time didn't have the will)

 

So we can hope for a more realistic approach. Yep, we can hope.

[Winstonm]

Two things: first, why do our media people continue to phrase election fraud claims as “without evidence” as the conspiracy-minded will simply hear “hidden evidence”. Framing is critical. Call it what it is: lies, bull, nonsense- but don’t toss around the word evidence.

 

Second, realize that the Overton Window has been thrown wide open to include the KKK as well as 1939 Berlin.

 

That window must be either slammed shut and boarded or cemented closed.

[y66]

Two things: first, why do our media people continue to phrase election fraud claims as “without evidence” as the conspiracy-minded will simply hear “hidden evidence”. Framing is critical. Call it what it is: lies, bull, nonsense- but don’t toss around the word evidence.

 

Second, realize that the Overton Window has been thrown wide open to include the KKK as well as 1939 Berlin.

 

That window must be either slammed shut and boarded or cemented closed.

The whole window or the newly expanded part? Also, why do you need two ways to metaphorically close a metaphorical window and why do you think [slammed shut and boarded] and [cemented closed] are equivalent?

[Winstonm]

The whole window or the newly expanded part? Also, why do you need two ways to metaphorically close a metaphorical window and why do you think [slammed shut and boarded] and [cemented closed] are equivalent?

Obviously, you have never installed an Overton Window else you would know they do not expand but must be removed and reinstalled if, for example, you desire to look out on the garbage rather than the garden.

Metaphorically the window should do the looking,

“Or” does not suggest equivalence “Ore” does.

[Winstonm]

Concerning another mass murder using a high powered rifle with high capacity magazines: stupidity is not an opinion.