Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[billw55]

Would it annoy you if an announcer says that KC is leading 7-3 after the first quarter?

Of course not. The game has started. By the same token, in an election I will accept the term "leading" when actual votes have been counted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Winstonm]

Perhaps there is hope for us all. From Yahoo news 8/3/2016:

 

 

Backlash in Kansas ousts at least 11 conservative lawmakers

 

TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) — A top Senate leader and at least 10 other conservative Kansas legislators have lost their seats as moderate Republicans made GOP primary races a referendum on education funding and the state's persistent budget woes.

 

Senate Majority Leader Terry Bruce was among the lawmakers ousted amid a backlash against Republican Gov. Sam Brownback and his allies.

[cherdano]

Well, according Guardian it was not Trump, but somebody named Roger Stone who said it. According Wikipedia he left the Trump campaign on August 8, 2015, so you cannot blame Trump for saying that.

1. Trump himself said:

"I’m telling you, November 8th, we’d better be careful because that election is going to be rigged. And I hope the Republicans are watching closely or it’s going to be taken away from us.”

2. Roger Stone is a long-time advisor. He is acting as a surrogate, trying to help Trump. If the Trump campaign wouldn't want him to say things like that, a quick phone call would be enough.

[kenberg]

Perhaps there is hope for us all. From Yahoo news 8/3/2016:

 

While this is only a start, it is a start. There must be quite few Republicans who are getting seriously put off by the extreme wing of their party. Not every Republican wants to abolish the Federal Reserve or teach Creationism in the public schools.

[barmar]

2. Roger Stone is a long-time advisor. He is acting as a surrogate, trying to help Trump. If the Trump campaign wouldn't want him to say things like that, a quick phone call would be enough.

What makes you think he would do what he recommends?

 

Every time Trump opens his mouth, I think he entered the race on a lark, never expecting or wanting to win. It's like "The Producers", where they tried to create a flop, but it was unexpectedly a smash hit.

 

The party establishment is stuck with him, so they have to support him. But he's under no such obligation back to them, is he? He can keep trying to sabotage his campaign. This just increases the value of his brand -- I can easily imagine "The Campaign Apprentice" next year (all his bankruptcies were no barrier to "The Apprentice", so losing the POTUS race shouldn't be an impediment).

[Winstonm]

While this is only a start, it is a start. There must be quite few Republicans who are getting seriously put off by the extreme wing of their party. Not every Republican wants to abolish the Federal Reserve or teach Creationism in the public schools.

 

In order to find a degree is sanity, it is also important to turn off the television sets - or at least change channels - in large enough numbers until broadcasters get the point that entertainment and news are not the same things.

[kenberg]

What makes you think he would do what he recommends?

 

Every time Trump opens his mouth, I think he entered the race on a lark, never expecting or wanting to win. It's like "The Producers", where they tried to create a flop, but it was unexpectedly a smash hit.

 

The party establishment is stuck with him, so they have to support him. But he's under no such obligation back to them, is he? He can keep trying to sabotage his campaign. This just increases the value of his brand -- I can easily imagine "The Campaign Apprentice" next year (all his bankruptcies were no barrier to "The Apprentice", so losing the POTUS race shouldn't be an impediment).

 

The comparison with The Producers had not occurred to me but I like it. Which is not to say I liked the movie. I am probably the only person on this planet (except for Becky) who never found Zero Mostel to be funny in anything but I do like the comparison.

 

I think what it all comes down to is that we have a huge disaster on our hands. Huge disasters are disastrous, and there is no way to completely avoid that. But many Republican leaders have been placing their hands over their eyes, if I don't see it then it isn't happening. Perhaps, just perhaps, this evasion is coming to an end. I can't foresee how this will go but it is now time for people in positions of power and responsibility to deal with it. They really cannot fool themselves or anyone else that this is just the usual give and take of politics.

 

 

If there is still someone out there who can stand to read one more article about DT, here is something from this morning

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-donald-trump/2016/08/02/d9de43fc-58f3-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html

[Winstonm]

Interesting. Three of the first six stories on Yahoo News concern what the Republicans will do if Trump drops out.

[billw55]

While this is only a start, it is a start. There must be quite few Republicans who are getting seriously put off by the extreme wing of their party. Not every Republican wants to abolish the Federal Reserve or teach Creationism in the public schools.

Indeed. I have wondered before now if the R party will split. I used to think maybe the tea party would form a new far right party (not calling it that of course), but now it seems more likely for the other half to form its own party in between the D and the far right. With Clinton so unpopular, this would have been a good time to poach voters from the right half of the Ds, and maybe pull in a few righties who can't stand Trump as well. A missed opportunity.

 

Note to rational republicans: Trump losing is not going get your party back for you.

[cherdano]

What makes you think he would do what he recommends?

(I assume "he" refers to Roger Stones.)

I think the psychology of surrogates is always that they want to please the campaign. They wouldn't act as surrogates if they don't think the campaign has a chance to win. And a campaign that might win is a campaign that might be in charge of needing many bodies to fill government jobs.

Meanwhile, what's in it for Roger Stones to be a surrogate unless he sees himself as a team player for team Trump? This kind of ***** won't help him anywhere except within that team.

[kenberg]

(I assume "he" refers to Roger Stones.)

I think the psychology of surrogates is always that they want to please the campaign. They wouldn't act as surrogates if they don't think the campaign has a chance to win. And a campaign that might win is a campaign that might be in charge of needing many bodies to fill government jobs.

Meanwhile, what's in it for Roger Stones to be a surrogate unless he sees himself as a team player for team Trump? This kind of ***** won't help him anywhere except within that team.

 

I don't know Roger Stone from DT's mother, but I am getting the idea he is not a team player. Neother is DT, fo that matter.

 

At any rate, if DT were all that upset bt Stone's views he could disown them. As far as I know he hasn't. So ot is fair to say that if a Trump buddy goes on about the need for civil disobedience if DT should lose the election, DT is not all that opposed to the idea.

 

 

I saw tonight that Priebus is said to be apoplectic over Trump's non-endorsement of McCain and Ryan. Good. A little apoplexy could be useful.

[MrAce]

Oh well...I was not planning on to vote this year but you all wired me up. I really hate to be forced to choose between 2 bad candidates, but you all convinced me that 1 of them is REALLY BAD! (I do not watch TV)

 

Count 1 more vote against that clown!

[cherdano]

I find this clip amazing. It made the news for Trump saying "Would you get the baby out of here", minutes after saying "I love babies".

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-baby-get-him-outta-here

But I would only consider that the 3rd-most outrageous thing he said in these 100 seconds!

1. He still claims China is artificially devaluing its currency, even though it has been doing the exact opposite quite a while.
   
2. He mocks a mother trying to calm her baby ("She believed me!").
   

I remember a time when each of the above would have been enough to seriously hurt a candidate's campaign...and of course none of them would make a top 20 of the most outrageous things Trump has said the last 3 days. A candidate mocking a supporter for having believed him!

[mike777]

As a long time Liberal it would be nice to vote for someone with a liberal agenda. A traditional Liberal agenda. Even a conservative agenda might garner my vote.

-----------------

 

 

At this point it seems who ever sends voters the bigger check wins. Voters want a check a big check. Trump seems at best to be unworthy.

[Zelandakh]

A traditional Liberal agenda.

You understand that "a traditional Liberal agenda" has little to do with neo-liberalism, right? If Winston is right about your beliefs, I find it fairly offensive that you would corrupt a term that everyone else understands in a particular way that is used throughout the world. It would perhaps be interesting to find out which of us is "more Liberal". B-)

[hrothgar]

You understand that "a traditional Liberal agenda" has little to do with neo-liberalism, right? If Winston is right about your beliefs, I find it fairly offensive that you would corrupt a term that everyone else understands in a particular way that is used throughout the world. It would perhaps be interesting to find out which of us is "more Liberal". B-)

 

You do understand that Mike777 is a LaRouchie?

 

The words he uses and the concepts that he believe in have little relationship to the state of reality as the rest of us understand it.

[Zelandakh]

You do understand that Mike777 is a LaRouchie?

That is the third classification is short order, one from the left, one from the right and one from the centre. Could it be that he simply posts nonsense and others read into it what they want to see?

[PassedOut]

Voices From Donald Trump’s Rallies, Uncensored

 

Unpleasant

[barmar]

But I would only consider that the 3rd-most outrageous thing he said in these 100 seconds!

One of the late night comedy shows, I don't remember which, pointed out that traditional politicians deal with gaffes by trying to apologize or backpedal. DT, instead, just goes on to make more outrageous comments, eclipsing the previous ones (they presented a montage).

[Winstonm]

As a long time Liberal it would be nice to vote for someone with a liberal agenda. A traditional Liberal agenda. Even a conservative agenda might garner my vote.

-----------------

 

 

At this point it seems who ever sends voters the bigger check wins. Voters want a check a big check. Trump seems at best to be unworthy.

 

So, Mike, what did Adam Smith look like in person? :P

[Winstonm]

I Ran the C.I.A. Now I’m Endorsing Hillary Clinton.

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/opinion/campaign-stops/i-ran-the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0

 

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia was a career intelligence officer, trained to identify vulnerabilities in an individual and to exploit them. That is exactly what he did early in the primaries. Mr. Putin played upon Mr. Trump’s vulnerabilities by complimenting him. He responded just as Mr. Putin had calculated.

[kenberg]

Sometime back I suggested that the more well to do who might still be undecided about Trump ask themselves a question. Suppose the opportunity rose to partner with Trump in a business deal. Would they commit a substantial amount of their own money to such a deal, trusting that Mr. Trump will work cooperatively and effectively in partnership? I think most people would be about as willing to do that as they would be to invest in a partnership with someone who just needs a partner with a little seed money to help get his millions in gold coins out of Nigeria. Bloomberg had it right, except you really do not have to be from New York to recognize a con when you see it.

 

Anyway, I don't really care whether Ryan does or does not retract his endorsement of Trump. His choice, he can live with it. But sometime back he, Ryan, said he did not think that he could work with a President Hillary Clinton. Have we not had enough of this? He does not have to vote for her, he does have to work with her.

[barmar]

Anyway, I don't really care whether Ryan does or does not retract his endorsement of Trump. His choice, he can live with it. But sometime back he, Ryan, said he did not think that he could work with a President Hillary Clinton. Have we not had enough of this? He does not have to vote for her, he does have to work with her.

I think you're interpreting it too literally. Of course he'll work with her (unless he resigns from Congress), he's just saying that he can't work effectively with her, because they'll disagree on most policies -- it will be the same kind of gridlock we've had between Congress and Obama.

 

That's pretty much always true these days when the Congressional majority and POTUS are from different parties, but I guess a statement like that implies that it will be even more severe with her than usual. But it could also just be political rhetoric.

[olegru]

Suppose the opportunity rose to partner with Trump in a business deal. Would they commit a substantial amount of their own money to such a deal, trusting that Mr. Trump will work cooperatively and effectively in partnership?

 

But is there are any top level politician who would pass that test?

[Winstonm]

If true, that would make him the number one candidate IMO. B-)

 

I think I could trust Tim Kaine in a business deal. I am pretty sure I could trust Hillary Clinton. Susan Collins and Lindsey Graham also come to mind as trustworthy.