Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[pilowsky]

You don't need a new book. You just need to look at Australia.

Compulsory voting with an exhaustive preferential system is the best way to run a democracy hands down.

It won't work in the USA because of the very long tradition of trying to block large sections of the population from voting.

The USA needs to get rid of systemic racism as step 1.

Then it can consider moving towards being a democracy.

I won't hold my breath.

[akwoo]

How does Australia handle voting for those folks who live deep in the bush, scores of kilometers (an exaggeration) from anyone else?

[pilowsky]

How does Australia handle voting for those folks who live deep in the bush, scores of kilometers (an exaggeration) from anyone else?

 

If you are over 18 and don't vote you get a $20.00 fine (roughly 4-5 coffees in Australia).

This applies to all local, state and federal government.

 

Of course, there is no compulsion to actually vote, but you do have to turn up - collect your ballot and put it in the box.

At every election about 6% of votes are informal (filled out incorrectly and therefore not countable) - you can read the exhaustive analysis here.

 

Australians love voting. It's a national sport.

You can vote early, you can vote on the day, you can post your vote from the outer Hebrides or Mawson base but if you don't, its 20 big ones.

 

Australia has been polluted by many americanisms but fortunately not 'folks'.

Unfortunately we now have influencers, tiktokers and shops that tell you to have a nice day.

Things can be monetised and be impactful and there's definitely too much lycra about.

[thepossum]

If you are over 18 and don't vote you get a $20.00 fine (roughly 4-5 coffees in Australia).

This applies to all local, state and federal government.

 

Of course, there is no compulsion to actually vote, but you do have to turn up - collect your ballot and put it in the box.

At every election about 6% of votes are informal (filled out incorrectly and therefore not countable) - you can read the exhaustive analysis here.

 

Australians love voting. It's a national sport.

You can vote early, you can vote on the day, you can post your vote from the outer Hebrides or Mawson base but if you don't, its 20 big ones.

 

Australia has been polluted by many americanisms but fortunately not 'folks'.

Unfortunately we now have influencers, tiktokers and shops that tell you to have a nice day.

Things can be monetised and be impactful and there's definitely too much lycra about.

 

I like and respect many of the aspects of compulsory showing up (or at least posting) whatever you put on your ballot - as half the informals demonstrate, they enjoy telling politicians what they think. Sadly the other informals demonstrate how complex the process still can be for some. Also, out of all the formal votes who seem to follow the instructions accurately I suspect many/most still couldn't explain the voting system to you

 

I prefer optional preferences to compulsory though. Why should you be forced to transfer your vote to someone you despise or risk your vote not counting?

 

Another area, which I at least find interesting, is that of the donkey vote - where people protest formally. There have been studies (by Sydney researchers I believe) where they estimate up to 2% of any vote is one or other of the many forms of formal donkey/protest vote. Its interesting for analysing very marginal seats :)

 

One thing that upset me was when the big parties removed a wonderful aspect of chance whereby some random nobody could win a senate seat by default. I actually approved of random nobodies getting in from time to time

 

I think I can agree on the lycra issue too

[Winstonm]

If you are over 18 and don't vote you get a $20.00 fine (roughly 4-5 coffees in Australia).

This applies to all local, state and federal government.

 

Of course, there is no compulsion to actually vote, but you do have to turn up - collect your ballot and put it in the box.

At every election about 6% of votes are informal (filled out incorrectly and therefore not countable) - you can read the exhaustive analysis here.

 

Australians love voting. It's a national sport.

You can vote early, you can vote on the day, you can post your vote from the outer Hebrides or Mawson base but if you don't, its 20 big ones.

 

Australia has been polluted by many americanisms but fortunately not 'folks'.

Unfortunately we now have influencers, tiktokers and shops that tell you to have a nice day.

Things can be monetised and be impactful and there's definitely too much lycra about.

 

Voting in the U.S. is ridiculous. Not only is it done during the week when people have to work but we can't get a law passed even to make those Tuesdays a national holiday - capitalism trumps democracy here.

 

And you see what happens when the unfettered free market picks the president: his name was Trump.

[johnu]

Voting in the U.S. is ridiculous. Not only is it done during the week when people have to work but we can't get a law passed even to make that Tuesdays a national holiday - capitalism trumps democracy here.

Actually, there is no need for a voting day holiday. The US should have national vote by mail laws. Many states already have vote by mail legislation that allows anybody to vote by mail and mail-in ballots are sent to every registered voter. If you don't have a mail in ballot when you are trying to vote, you can go to some government locations to vote in person. All voters need to do is fill out a ballot, and drop it off at a mailbox sometime before election day. Nobody waits in line for hours, or half a day, or an entire day.

[johnu]

You don't need a new book. You just need to look at Australia.

I read on the internet that Australia doesn't exist and somebody just made it up. What proof do you have that it exists?

[pilowsky]

I read on the internet that Australia doesn't exist and somebody just made it up. What proof do you have that it exists?

 

Where do you think the space lasers are kept?

[Winstonm]

Where do you think the space lasers are kept?

I thought Australia escaped from a Chinese lab.

[pilowsky]

I thought Australia escaped from a Chinese lab.

 

True. We use the space lasers that we brought with us from the lab to shoot the viruses on our way to the polling booth.

[Winstonm]

True. We use the space lasers that we brought with us from the lab to shoot the viruses on our way to the polling booth.

Finally someone talking sense.

[barmar]

Actually, there is no need for a voting day holiday. The US should have national vote by mail laws. Many states already have vote by mail legislation that allows anybody to vote by mail and mail-in ballots are sent to every registered voter. If you don't have a mail in ballot when you are trying to vote, you can go to some government locations to vote in person. All voters need to do is fill out a ballot, and drop it off at a mailbox sometime before election day. Nobody waits in line for hours, or half a day, or an entire day.

Which is why many Republican legislatures are cancelling vote-by-mail -- it makes it too easy to vote.

[Chas_P]

Which is why many Republican legislatures are cancelling vote-by-mail -- it makes it too easy to vote.

And to cheat.

[kenberg]

There is a possibility of distortion from mail-ins but the one that I think is the most likely is seldom spoken of, namely the control freaks. These tend to be males and my guess is that they are more likely to be R males although there is no shortage of D males who think everyone should do as they say. It has never been my style to monitor how any of my three wives voted so I don't know much in the way of details, but surely if someone puts a ballot in an envelope at home it is easier for a spouse to check on this, eg, "Show me how you voted before you seal that" than it is at a voting place.

 

Sure, you can offer money, or whiskey, or sex, to others for voting as you tell them to and it would be easier to get away with that on a mail-in ballot. But that would come with substantial risk, it seems like a bad idea, and as I understand it various studies suggest that it is not widespread. That fits with my expectations. I am interested in voting my preference, I have no interest whatsoever in paying someone a hundred bucks to vote as I say, even if I thought, probably erroneously, that I could get away with it.

 

I have known guys, we all have, who think that their wives are supposed to do whatever they say. And it can be the other way around but that is less common. Know-it-alls who seldom miss an opportunity to tell others what to do are a problem. On balance, I still think voting by mail should be an option.

 

I think the Maryland primary is in July but I have not thought much about it. Becky said we got something we should send in if we want to vote by mail. Probably we will just go to the local voting booth on the day we are to vote.

[mycroft]

Canadian elections are always on a Monday (*) - and a work day. But they require companies to provide 3 hours of uninterrupted time during voting hours to their employees - and that includes people with 2 jobs if I remember correctly (not sure how that works, though). The time off during regular work hours *must be paid* (but if voting is open 0700-1900, and you work 0800-1600, there's your three hours right there, unpaid).

 

On the other hand, they also work very hard to ensure that 3 hours is easily enough to vote - I've never had it take longer than 30 minutes from the time I rolled up to the door. In fact once, I voted advance poll because it was two blocks from my work; started an install of my company's software, walked to the voting booth, voted, walked back, just in time for the install to finish (20 minutes or so).

 

It doesn't have to be as bad as it is in the U.S.

 

Our Beloved Leader Harper introduced mandatory ID to protect against vote fraud make homeless people's lives uglier (but it's easier to resolve than in some U.S. States), and restricted access to voting for "Canadians of Convenience" (along with removing health care and the right to return in case of emergency) - those who are Canadian but live abroad full-time ("unless something goes wrong". He really didn't like the "It's no longer safe to live in Beirut, we're coming back to Canada" people for some reason). A bunch of that has been rolled back by the courts, but not all. If Polievre gets in, expect it to get more American really fast.

 

(*)Tuesday if the Monday is a federal statutory holiday. I don't think I remember that ever happening.

[y66]

The NYT reporting on me is totally false and wrong.

[Winstonm]

Concerning Trump, I would have to say the best description of Mark Meadows and Mitch McConnell is: pussyllanimous.(sic)

[y66]

He told me he does have some responsibility for what happened.

 

No, that’s false. I never claimed responsibility.

[y66]

I don’t recall. I don’t remember.

 

I knew what I was doing was wrong and a crime. I’m terribly, terribly sorry for what I did and I humbly beg the court for mercy.

[kenberg]

Largely I have just ignored R comments about Jan 6, sort of a good grief why even try attitude, but Greene's claim that she can't recall whether she did or did not suggest to the president that he impose martial law stands out even in the current lunacy. I can be oblivious. I can forget what I had for dinner last night. I am confident that I would recall whether I did or did not suggest to the president that he impose martial law.

[Winstonm]

Largely I have just ignored R comments about Jan 6, sort of a good grief why even try attitude, but Greene's claim that she can't recall whether she did or did not suggest to the president that he impose martial law stands out even in the current lunacy. I can be oblivious. I can forget what I had for dinner last night. I am confident that I would recall whether I did or did not suggest to the president that he impose martial law.

 

The bigger issue to me is not whether or not these people lie but whether or not they are criminally charged for those lies that have statutory criminal consequences, i.e., lying under oath or lying to the FBI.

 

I would say that it would be fairly simply to convict Greene on this charge with a DC jury (for just what Ken says) but probably impossible in Texas. And that divide over the rule of law is, or soon will be, our ruination as a viable republic. There is already a great divide between rich and the rest; when we add an unpunishable political class to that equation, the answer as to how many days of the republic is left is zero.

[Winstonm]

 

Let's not forget that the other member of this gang of convicted thieves, Steve Bannon, was pardoned for this same crime by Trump on his way out the door.

[y66]

[Winstonm]

I’m particularly fond of coconut Macrons; not so much of the poison le Pens.

[y66]

I’m particularly fond of coconut Macrons; not so much of the poison le Pens.

You are une carte électorale. :)