Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[y66]

... recovery for Trump, victory for Biden, and then we move on. That's my hope, I recommend it to all.

I feel similarly but not more than for the recovery of the 4.2 million other Americans with confirmed active cases that the Trump administration has been so ineffective at preventing and whose access to health care Trump is seeking to abolish.

[kenberg]

I feel similarly but not more than for the recovery of the 4.2 million other Americans with confirmed active cases that the Trump administration has been so ineffective at preventing and whose access to health care Trump is seeking to abolish.

 

The reasons for getting rid of this guy abound.

[Winstonm]

From an Atlantic article posted on the Coronavirus thread: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&fbclid=IwAR30zvcxavtHC07_UeEma_4AFBEEtL-BfqcsyhrTrC6nJz1wTM3ypFTlYCs

In study after study, we see that super-spreading clusters of COVID-19 almost overwhelmingly occur in poorly ventilated, indoor environments where many people congregate over time—weddings, churches, choirs, gyms, funerals, restaurants, and such—especially when there is loud talking or singing without masks

This sounds to me like the Oval Office.

[y66]

May President Trump and the first lady recover swiftly after testing positive for the coronavirus. For their sake — and for the sake of the nation.

 

The president’s health is a matter of national security. That’s one reason it’s been so frustrating to watch as Mr. Trump has flouted basic public health guidelines and the advice of his own government’s experts. Every time he refused to wear a mask or observe social distancing guidelines, he put not only himself but also all of America at risk.

 

Mr. Trump’s illness will throw the highest levels of government into disarray. Even if he does not become seriously ill, the president will be unable to perform many of his duties until the threat of contagion has passed. Following his diagnosis, his public schedule was cleared on Friday except for a phone call “on Covid-19 support to vulnerable seniors” — which Vice President Mike Pence ended up handling.

 

With more than 207,000 American lives already lost to this pandemic, the potential for a worst-case scenario is all too clear.

 

A serious presidential illness is an issue of national importance under ordinary circumstances. Coming just a month out from Election Day, the potential for chaos is exponential. Mr. Trump will need to leave the campaign trail for an indeterminate amount of time, canceling rallies and fund-raisers and throwing the future debates into limbo. Voters were already anxious about the nation’s ability to hold a free and fair election — anxiety fueled by Mr. Trump, whose core campaign strategy has been to claim that Democrats and the “deep state” are working to rig the race. Speculation about his health will only fray nerves and further destabilize the situation. The conspiracy theorists and disinformation trolls will do their best to maximize the turmoil.

 

To minimize the chaos, the American public needs to be kept closely apprised of Mr. Trump’s condition and of how the situation — read: the nation’s leadership — is being managed. The first lady has tweeted that the couple is “feeling good,” and Mr. Trump’s physician has expressed confidence that the president will be able to continue his duties “without disruption” from his residence. At a Friday media briefing, the White House chief of staff confirmed that the president was experiencing “mild symptoms” — after The Times had reported as much. The White House did not reveal the illness of Hope Hicks, the presidential aide who was exhibiting symptoms on Wednesday and received a positive diagnosis on Thursday, until after it was reported in the media.

 

None of this is reassuring. In times of crisis, the public looks to the president for reassurance and guidance. What happens when he is at the heart of that crisis? Public confidence plummets, and tensions rise. Global markets are shaken. Foreign adversaries search for ways to exploit the uncertainty. In a misguided attempt to convey strength, Mr. Trump has made America weaker and more vulnerable.

 

The president’s illness is like a stone thrown into a pond, where the ripples quickly spread. Top-level aides and advisers will have to quarantine themselves. Already, a list of people who have been in recent close contact with Ms. Hicks is making its way around social media. In coming days, we will learn whether those who have been in proximity to Mr. Trump this week are also sick. Already, Senator Mike Lee, a Utah Republican and member of the Judiciary Committee, has announced that he has tested positive.

 

Now is not a time for political games. The president’s health is not a private matter. Americans need to have confidence that Mr. Trump is in a position to handle the nation’s business — and, if not, that he will hand over the reins to the vice president until his condition improves. For too long he has failed to take this virus, or his own safety, seriously.

[Zelandakh]

I had missed that part. I trust he, and others, will be tested.

He and his wife were indeed tested. it came back negative but the process severely delayed their campaigning schedule. I think it was a good look for them that they waited for the test. Whether they should also cut back generally I am not sure. I daresay that they will be guided by medical professionals in this.

 

The POTUS is apparently being hospitalised, which classes his as a serious case no matter how much his team try to downplay it in the coming hours and days. Like you, I would hope that he recovers and that the episode does not cause the USA any issues. In the best case, it might lead to the WH taking the virus more seriously and saving a few lives in the coming months.

[cherdano]

To be honest, I don't think Biden should be out campaigning just because of one negative test. A test less than 3 days after exposure still has quite high odds of a false negative I thought.

But obviously I know nothing about the details and data of the test he took.

[hrothgar]

The POTUS is apparently being hospitalised, which classes his as a serious case no matter how much his team try to downplay it in the coming hours and days. Like you, I would hope that he recovers and that the episode does not cause the USA any issues. In the best case, it might lead to the WH taking the virus more seriously and saving a few lives in the coming months.

 

The best thing that could happen to the US would be for Trump to die right now.

 

1. I am very worried that Trump will try to contest an election. I don't believe that Pence would. I'm not looking forward to a second civil war, regardless of whether or not it is cold.

 

2. If Trump loses the election, there's a very real chance that he will be charged and convicted for any number of crimes. Here once again, I'm not looking forward to seeing the country torn apart with arguments over whether or not and ex President can be arrested / imprisoned or whether he needs to be pardoned for the "good of the nation".

 

Its much much better that he dies now...

[shyams]

This thing is escalating very quickly, I'm afraid. The President is being taken to hospital (or perhaps he's already left for hospital).

 

This is so reminiscent of what happened to Boris Johnson which, as everyone knows, got a lot scary very quickly. And BoJo is both younger & fitter when compared to Trump. Fingers crossed, all will be well soon. This is not good.

[johnu]

A lot of people on this forum, and I'm not going to point fingers, have called the Grifter in Chief a pathological liar, a sociopath, a traitor to the USA, a criminal, a lousy golfer, etc.

 

I am here to set the record straight. For a man of his age and obesity, the Manchurian President is a much better golfer than most, with the exception of people who play every day who are in the golf industry, and retirees who are healthy enough to play every day. His strong points are the foot wedge and a special White House score calculator that only counts "serious" golf shots. You may disagree with what I've written, but I stand by this post.

[hrothgar]

As I understand matters, Trump is being treated with "regeneron" which is an infusion of a cocktail of two different monoclonal antibodies. There is a requirement that he be in the hospital with an IV and cardiac and oxygenation monitoring because there is a risk of anaphylaxis.

 

I'd be thrilled if he were dying, but I don't think we can start counting our chickens quite yet

[Cyberyeti]

A lot of people on this forum, and I'm not going to point fingers, have called the Grifter in Chief a pathological liar, a sociopath, a traitor to the USA, a criminal, a lousy golfer, etc.

 

I am here to set the record straight. For a man of his age and obesity, the Manchurian President is a much better golfer than most, with the exception of people who play every day who are in the golf industry, and retirees who are healthy enough to play every day. His strong points are the foot wedge and a special White House score calculator that only counts "serious" golf shots. You may disagree with what I've written, but I stand by this post.

 

Bill Clinton cheated like hell on the golf course also, seems to go with the job.

[Winstonm]

Bill Clinton cheated like hell on the golf course also, seems to go with the job.

 

Bill Clinton also cheated on his wife. Are you claiming that Clinton and Trump are somehow equals?

 

 

 

[johnu]

Bill Clinton cheated like hell on the golf course also, seems to go with the job.

Bill Clinton was a piker compared to the Grifter when it comes to golf. Bill never won a golf tournament he entered if he ever played in one, and certainly never "won" a tournament he never even entered. Clinton's idea of fun on the golf course was relaxing for an afternoon with friends and drinking a "few" beers and other beverages. Even "Ike" was given a lot of "presidential" gimmes which he graciously accepted. Dan Quayle was probably the only guy that spent time in the White House who didn't need to bend the rules since he was actually pretty good as a former member of a college golf team.

[Winstonm]

The best thing that could happen to the US would be for Trump to die right now.

 

1. I am very worried that Trump will try to contest an election. I don't believe that Pence would. I'm not looking forward to a second civil war, regardless of whether or not it is cold.

 

2. If Trump loses the election, there's a very real chance that he will be charged and convicted for any number of crimes. Here once again, I'm not looking forward to seeing the country torn apart with arguments over whether or not and ex President can be arrested / imprisoned or whether he needs to be pardoned for the "good of the nation".

 

Its much much better that he dies now...

 

I'd prefer him to just disappear - hate the idea of him in Arlington.

[kenberg]

He and his wife were indeed tested. it came back negative but the process severely delayed their campaigning schedule. I think it was a good look for them that they waited for the test. Whether they should also cut back generally I am not sure. I daresay that they will be guided by medical professionals in this.

 

The POTUS is apparently being hospitalised, which classes his as a serious case no matter how much his team try to downplay it in the coming hours and days. Like you, I would hope that he recovers and that the episode does not cause the USA any issues. In the best case, it might lead to the WH taking the virus more seriously and saving a few lives in the coming months.

 

 

And it is not just the president. Senators, the chair of the RNC and others. If these people are really unable to accept the importance of caution with this disease then the voters have to recognize irresponsibility and idiocy when they see it smack dab in front of them. They don't wear a mask because the president wouldn't like it? Really?

 

C'mon folks, it's way past time.

[Winstonm]

I'm amazed how this White House super-spreader event mirrors the information in this Atlantic article.

 

But unless you’ve been reading scientific journals, you’re less likely to have encountered k, the measure of its dispersion. The definition of k is a mouthful, but it’s simply a way of asking whether a virus spreads in a steady manner or in big bursts, whereby one person infects many, all at once. After nine months of collecting epidemiological data, we know that this is an overdispersed pathogen, meaning that it tends to spread in clusters, but this knowledge has not yet fully entered our way of thinking about the pandemic—or our preventive practices.

[johnu]

The best thing that could happen to the US would be for Trump to die right now.

 

1. I am very worried that Trump will try to contest an election. I don't believe that Pence would. I'm not looking forward to a second civil war, regardless of whether or not it is cold.

 

2. If Trump loses the election, there's a very real chance that he will be charged and convicted for any number of crimes. Here once again, I'm not looking forward to seeing the country torn apart with arguments over whether or not and ex President can be arrested / imprisoned or whether he needs to be pardoned for the "good of the nation".

 

Its much much better that he dies now...

I can't disagree more. In my perfect future, the Manchurian President will lose the election in November, forced out of office at noon, January 20, and indicted for many crimes soon after.

 

In a plea deal, the Grifter in Chief will:

 

1. Allocute to all his crimes

2. Renounce his right to a government pension and health care

3. Renounce his right to Secret Service protection

4. Renounce his US citizenship

5. Pay back all of emoluments he has illegally obtained in the last 4 years

6. Self-deport to another country and never touch foot in the USA. Russia, are you listening?

[Winstonm]

Karma is most definitely a bitch: Kelly Ann Conway positive for corona virus.

[Winstonm]

Maybe Donald should try a Novichok treatment - Putin says it's good at getting rid of his problems.

[Cyberyeti]

I'm amazed how this White House super-spreader event mirrors the information in this Atlantic article.

 

 

Yup, this article was posted in the coronavirus thread a day or two back, thought provoking.

 

Btw can Donald pardon himself before conviction ? or does he have to be prosecuted first ?

[Zelandakh]

Btw can Donald pardon himself before conviction ? or does he have to be prosecuted first ?

He probably cannot pardon himself legally (subject to a SCOTUS ruling) but Mike Pence could pardon him without charges being brought. That would only apply to federal prosecution though - the potential charges from NY cannot be pardoned as they are at State level.

[hrothgar]

He probably cannot pardon himself legally (subject to a SCOTUS ruling) but Mike Pence could pardon him without charges being brought.

 

There are no limits on a President's ability to pardon Federal crimes.

[kenberg]

Just a trivial point: The WH has described taking DT to WR as "out of an abundance of caution" That's the same phrase used by the doctor's office when they informed me that one of the staff had tested positive. They were letting me know of this "out of an abundance of caution> It seems to be becoming a phrase of the day. So how are they describing whatever they are doing regarding Melania? I have not heard of what they are doing, but are they throwing caution to the wind? Acting out of limited caution?

I am sure I can go through life w/o learning the answer, but it struck me that much is being done for DT and we hear nothing of what is being done for Melania.

 

Another point of trivia. We have heard of how covid has hit some groups very hard in comparison to the number of people in that group. It appears that close associates of Trump would be one such group.

[Winstonm]

Yup, this article was posted in the coronavirus thread a day or two back, thought provoking.

 

Btw can Donald pardon himself before conviction ? or does he have to be prosecuted first ?

 

That question has never been answered so if it happened the Supreme Court would almost assuredly have to rule on it.

[Winstonm]

Just a trivial point: The WH has described taking DT to WR as "out of an abundance of caution" That's the same phrase used by the doctor's office when they informed me that one of the staff had tested positive. They were letting me know of this "out of an abundance of caution> It seems to be becoming a phrase of the day. So how are they describing whatever they are doing regarding Melania? I have not heard of what they are doing, but are they throwing caution to the wind? Acting out of limited caution?

I am sure I can go through life w/o learning the answer, but it struck me that much is being done for DT and we hear nothing of what is being done for Melania.

 

Another point of trivia. We have heard of how covid has hit some groups very hard in comparison to the number of people in that group. It appears that close associates of Trump would be one such group.

 

Concerning Melania, all I can say is:

 

I Really Don't Care, Do U?

David Frum from the Atlantic on Trump's diagnosis.