Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[johnu]

This bomb-builder may well turn out to be Dennison's undoing because Dennison won't be able to continue his relentless attacks without looking like he is promoting criminal behavior, and without his ability to incite hatred and division he has nothing to offer.

 

The countdown clock is ticking until Dennison makes up a fantasy excuse to offer a pardon to the Republican bomber.

[Al_U_Card]

The countdown clock is ticking until Dennison makes up a fantasy excuse to offer a pardon to the Republican bomber.

Spin can go either way. A "crazy" known potential bomber. Easy-peasy. But before his threats meant he couldn't or wouldn't make bombs. A case of escalation or what else? Should be interesting to see where and how the escalation occurred. Was he inspired and egged on by Trump? Was he frustrated by MSM and Democratic criticisms? Something else?

[Winstonm]

I hope your view is correct, but fascism is on the rise from Australia to most of Europe. Look at Austria, Germany, France, and Italy which are at the forefront of the movement.

 

You are right, and it is a dangerous time to invest in demagogues.

[Al_U_Card]

You are right, and it is a dangerous time to invest in demagogues.

Fashion repeats every 20 years.

Climate repeats every 132 years.

Politics? Fascists were on the rise in the 30's but that was a depression era so maybe it depends on the economy.

[johnu]

Spin can go either way. A "crazy" known potential bomber. Easy-peasy. But before his threats meant he couldn't or wouldn't make bombs. A case of escalation or what else? Should be interesting to see where and how the escalation occurred. Was he inspired and egged on by Trump? Was he frustrated by MSM and Democratic criticisms? Something else?

 

The story is starting to get clearer:

 

Cesar Sayoc ‘Found A Father In Dennison,’ Family Attorney Tells Anderson Cooper

[PassedOut]

While it is tempting to suppose that few people are stupid enough to take Trump's words seriously, even while they might agree in general with his politics, it does not take many such to pose a danger -- as this guy, Sayoc, of Trump's base, demonstrates. Throughout his campaign and his time in office, Trump has worked hard to stir up anger in his mob of supporters, and this is just the latest example of the fruits of his work.

 

It would not surprise me to learn that hundreds of his supporters are stupid enough to take Trump seriously, and for their emotions to lead them to ramp up the domestic terrorism that Trump intentionally incites. This all goes to show how dangerous it can be to cast a vote for a completely unsuitable candidate simply to thumb one's nose at educated folks who ground their opinions in reality.

[ggwhiz]

It is 100% correct that Republicans will force Insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions.

 

They will however allow them to charge 3, 4 5 times more for the coverage. I can't believe the Dems aren't bringing that up on the stump.

[Winstonm]

It is 100% correct that Republicans will force Insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions.

 

They will however allow them to charge 3, 4 5 times more for the coverage. I can't believe the Dems aren't bringing that up on the stump.

 

You are most likely correct. I would guess the under the guise of "choice and free market competition" the Republican position would be to "force" insurance companies to "offer" coverage that covers pre-existing conditions, which would allow insurance companies to charge usurious rates for that "premium" coverage in order to force most people to accept the lesser coverage that does not cover pre-existing conditions.

 

The entirety of the healthcare debate centers on one position: is healthcare a commodity that responds best to a free market business approach?

[johnu]

It is 100% correct that Republicans will force Insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions.

 

They will however allow them to charge 3, 4 5 times more for the coverage. I can't believe the Dems aren't bringing that up on the stump.

 

The truth is that Republicans are already peddling minimum health insurance policies that explicitly don't cover pre-existing conditions. Many of the policy holders will have a very unpleasant surprise when they try to use that insurance and realize that they were just torching their policy premium dollars since their insurance isn't going to cover any of their costs.

 

Your estimate of 3-5 times the current premium is woefully underestimated. If you have a medical condition that is expected to cost a million plus dollars a year, the insurance companies are not going to lose money on you. They are going to charge you a million plus dollars a year plus maybe a 50% expense loading if they are forced to cover you.

 

GOP Bill ‘Covers’ Preexisting Conditions, But May Have Million-Dollar Premium

[johnu]

Gunman targets Pittsburgh synagogue in 'hate crime;' 8 reported dead

 

KDKA television cited police sources as saying the gunman walked into the building and yelled “All Jews must die.”

 

Another brainwashed alt-right, neo-nazi/fascist.

 

A social media post by Bowers said a Jewish refugee organization, the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, "likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

 

Dennison and Fox Propaganda anti-immigrant hate talk scores another victory for their side.

[Winstonm]

Later in his speech, however, the president contradicted his message of unity by going after people he called "globalists," and claiming they were hurting the economy. As he railed on "globalists," someone in the crowd yelled out "George Soros!" and the crowd began chanting "Lock him up!" The president chuckled, pointed to the crowd, and repeated the phrase "lock him up," back to them.

 

George Soros is a jew, a survivor of the holocaust, and wealthy. But attacking him as a "globalist" enemy who deserves to be "locked up" has nothing to do with a crazy killing spree in a synagogue the next day because the shooter was just a "whacko"?

 

As I said before, rhetoric of this sort creates targets for anger. It is not a surprise when that anger explodes into action, and the rhetoric cannot be called innocent at that point.

[Al_U_Card]

Mueller? Mueller? .... Mueller?

[jjbrr]

Gunman targets Pittsburgh synagogue in 'hate crime;' 8 reported dead

 

 

 

Another brainwashed alt-right, neo-nazi/fascist.

 

 

 

Dennison and Fox Propaganda anti-immigrant hate talk scores another victory for their side.

 

I may be misreading and misinterpreting the news that I'm gathering, but I believe this guy isn't the product of Mango Mussolini's rhetoric. I think he believed Jews control both the right and the left. Apparently he opposed Trump.

 

The real issue here, in my mind, is that America is woefully, disastrously behind in addressing problems with mental health.

[Winstonm]

In order to preempt the false equivalancies, I offer this:

 

....the problem with Trump’s rhetorical attacks on Democrats and the media is not that they are incendiary, divisive, or liable to inspire violence; the problem is that they are needlessly so — because they have no factual basis.

[johnu]

I may be misreading and misinterpreting the news that I'm gathering, but I believe this guy isn't the product of Mango Mussolini's rhetoric. I think he believed Jews control both the right and the left. Apparently he opposed Trump.

 

The real issue here, in my mind, is that America is woefully, disastrously behind in addressing problems with mental health.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/synagogue-attack-suspect-robert-bowers-profile/index.html

 

 

On his Gab.com account, Bowers claimed Jews were helping transport members of the migrant caravans. He shared a video that another Gab.com user posted, purportedly of a Jewish refugee advocacy group HIAS on the US-Mexico border. Another post that Bowers commented on described HIAS' overall efforts as "sugar-coated evil."

 

According to his posts, Bowers believed that those in the migrant caravans were violent because they were attempting to leave countries that had high levels of violence. And Bowers repeatedly called them "invaders" on his Gab posts. "I have noticed a change in people saying 'illegals' that now say 'invaders'," read one post, six days before the shooting. "I like this."

 

Apparently Dennison wasn't tough enough on immigrants, or anti-semetic enough :rolleyes: , but Dennison is also the one who is single-handedly demonizing immigrants and the immigrant caravan and threatening to use military force to stop it at the border.

[johnu]

Apparently Dennison wasn't tough enough on immigrants, or anti-semetic enough :rolleyes: , but Dennison is also the one who is single-handedly demonizing immigrants and the immigrant caravan and threatening to use military force to stop it at the border.

 

Rep. Kevin McCarthy Deletes Tweet Attacking 3 Wealthy Jews In The Democratic Party

 

Maybe Dennison lets others spew anti-semetic rhetoric for obvious family reasons.

[Winstonm]

I admit to not knowing all of the coded messaging developed by the right wing to obfuscate racial bias in order to appeal to the southern Democrats after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964, but having worked with a preacherly right-winger from Kentucky I learned a lot of it, and the remnants are still used today.

 

That made me take exception to the following proclamation: (emphasis added)

 

Rep. Steve Stivers (R-OH), the chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, defended on Sunday the GOP campaign arms ads targeting billionaire George Soros, who is Jewish, in light of the mass shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh. “Our independent expenditure arm is independent. But that ad is factual. And it also has nothing to do with calling for violence. That ad is a factual ad,” Stivers said on NBC’s Meet the Press, responding to a television advertisement paid by the NRCC that targets a Democratic candidate in Minnesota by tying him to Soros and Wall Street bankers.

 

Here is an explanation of the coded message of the ad tying Soros to Wall Street Bankers by decoding a similar message from Rush Limbaugh: (emphasis added for clarity)

 

Take a look at a statement made by Rush Limbaugh last year, in which he explained that Jews who voted for Obama may now have “buyer’s remorse” because Obama was supposedly going after Wall Street:

 

"There are a lot of people, when you say banker, people think Jewish. People who have, uh, prejudice, people who have—um, uh, you know—what’s the best way to say—a little, little prejudice about them. To some people, bankers is code word for Jewish. And guess who Obama’s assaulting? He’s assaulting bankers! He’s assaulting money people! And a lot of those people on Wall Street are Jewish. So I wonder if there’s starting to be some buyer’s remorse there."

 

Let’s parse this statement:

 

“To some people, bankers is code word for Jewish. And guess who Obama’s assaulting? He’s assaulting bankers! He’s assaulting money people!”

 

Here Limbaugh plays a rhetorical trick. He evokes a premise, but—recognizing the premise would get him into trouble—credits the premise to “a lot of people” and “some people.” He even says that the premise carries “a little prejudice.” Yet after attributing this idea of “bankers = Jews” to people other than himself, Limbaugh proceeds to draw a conclusion on the basis that the premise is correct:

 

"So I wonder if there’s starting to be some buyer’s remorse there."

 

You can only “wonder” this if you accept the premise that “bankers” and “money people” are synonymous with “Jews,” and that Jewish public opinion sways with the temperament of Wall Street.

 

Moreover, his conclusion is preceded with the following:

 

"And a lot of those people on Wall Street are Jewish."

 

He states this as a fact. The fact by itself is meaningless: there may or may not be a lot of Jews on Wall Street, and their representation may be proportionately higher or lower compared to wider demographics, but what is the purpose of making such an assertion? In Limbaugh’s context, it establishes a correlation between Jews and the gears of capital, which supports his conclusion that Jews may be experiencing “buyer’s remorse” from Obama’s supposed attack on the Jewish institution known as Wall Street.

 

So we have a classic anti-Semitic statement, only slightly veiled, of the sort that we are told is popular at Zucotti Park.

 

I find it ironic that the group that most rails against political correctness has its own politically correct code. And then its use is publicly defended on national tv.

[johnu]

I hope your view is correct, but fascism is on the rise from Australia to most of Europe. Look at Austria, Germany, France, and Italy which are at the forefront of the movement.

 

CNN Brazilians cast ballots as right-wing candidate leads in polls

 

Bolsonaro affiliates with right wing fascists and there is serious worry that he will return Brazil to a dictatorship to fix the country's problems if elected based on public statement by he and his running mate.

[hrothgar]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-prepares-mass-layoffs-losing-002618564.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=fb&fbclid=IwAR3vOB0tCf45DLytqN6RLLPrmWP6ou-ZIVSNFU54qT3VOQzEFOYPJgUzLqc

[Al_U_Card]

I admit to not knowing all of the coded messaging developed by the right wing to obfuscate racial bias in order to appeal to the southern Democrats after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964, but having worked with a preacherly right-winger from Kentucky I learned a lot of it, and the remnants are still used today.

 

 

Prolly had its roots in Roosevelt's catering to Dixiecrat (read segregationist democrats) sentiments on the New Deal to get it passed. Excluding migrant and service workers pretty much excluded blacks from the immediate economic benefits. The CRA had its own list of "compromises" to gain support. Politics, whodathunkit?

[johnu]

Prolly had its roots in Roosevelt's catering to Dixiecrat (read segregationist democrats) sentiments on the New Deal to get it passed. Excluding migrant and service workers pretty much excluded blacks from the immediate economic benefits. The CRA had its own list of "compromises" to gain support. Politics, whodathunkit?

 

When the Republicans Really Were the Party of Lincoln

 

By 1948, Dixiecrats were starting to completely break with the Democratic party. Strom Thurmond ran for president as a Dixiecrat and won 39 electoral votes by winning 4 Confederate states.

 

In 1964, after signing the Civil Rights Act, Lyndon Johnson famously said "We (Democrats) have lost the South for a generation." as Dixiecrats were making a full exodus to the Republican party. He was wrong since we're nearing the end of the 2nd generation after the Civil Rights Act and the Democrats are still not competitive in the South.

[Al_U_Card]

When the Republicans Really Were the Party of Lincoln

 

By 1948, Dixiecrats were starting to completely break with the Democratic party. Strom Thurmond ran for president as a Dixiecrat and won 39 electoral votes by winning 4 Confederate states.

 

In 1964, after signing the Civil Rights Act, Lyndon Johnson famously said "We (Democrats) have lost the South for a generation." as Dixiecrats were making a full exodus to the Republican party. He was wrong since we're nearing the end of the 2nd generation after the Civil Rights Act and the Democrats are still not competitive in the South.

How many is "full"?

[johnu]

Explaining why he didn't cancel rally, Dennison falsely says NYSE opened day after 9/11

 

Another example that nothing is too big, or too small for Dennison to outright lie about. Only in Dennison world is there no record of what happened way back in 2001. Most of his supporters either wouldn't care that he lied again, or would take his word against in person and historical records.

[johnu]

How many is "full"?

 

More than enough to change the south from solid blue to overwhelmingly solid red. If you want an estimate, google 99-44/100%

[y66]

I'm baffled by David Gelernter's assertion in his October 21 WSJ Op-Ed titled The Real Reason They Hate Trump

 

The difference between citizens who hate Mr. Trump and those who can live with him—whether they love or merely tolerate him—comes down to their views of the typical American: the farmer, factory hand, auto mechanic, machinist, teamster, shop owner, clerk, software engineer, infantryman, truck driver, housewife. The leftist intellectuals I know say they dislike such people insofar as they tend to be conservative Republicans.

He's a thoughtful guy and someone I've admired since I read Mirror Worlds 20+ years ago. I realize he has conservative views but my sense is that he's way too honest to make up stuff like that for self-serving reasons and yet it doesn't square at all with my view of the typical American or the views of my progressive friends who hate Trump most because they believe he could care less about the typical American and that his policies and the policies of his party have been and will continue to be disastrous for typical Americans.