johnu Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Perhaps we need to take actions to ensure that no foreign parties are able to mess with our elections. One suggestion would be a national voter ID requirement to ensure that only valid US citizens are able to vote. This would prevent the Russians from materially interfering. LOL, couldn't you come up with a better strawman argument? You are the only one suggesting that Russians are voting or want to physically vote in our elections. Instead, Russian could hack the counting machines and computers and change thousands or hundreds of thousands of votes. They can delete or modify voter registration records so it is mad chaos in Democrat leaning precincts so it could take hours, half a day or longer waiting in line before people could vote (in potentially very uncomfortable weather). There's a limit to how long people are willing to take to vote, even in the most important elections. Some people have to go to work, get home to take care of other people, just aren't physically capable of camping outside a voting booth for hours. As Democrats and the liberal/left have been asserting for some time that Russia was meddling and influencing the 2016 election in favor of Trump, now that Trump is President and enforcing tough sanctions on Russia, Ohhhh, so it's only the liberal/left that think Dennison is a Russian puppet. As far back as last year, Congress passed a bill that imposed new sanctions and sharply limited the ability of Dennison to lift Russian sanctions. By the way, the bill passed 98-2 in the Senate and 419-3 in the House. In case you weren't sure, this was a veto proof margin. Funny that the Republicans didn't see the need to pass a similar bill when Obama was president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 So to vote in UK one needs a valid photo ID?No "disenfranchise" issues there? No, I meant in the event of voter registration in the US. In the UK we get sent polling cards (for the specific election) in advance of the poll which allow rapid processing at the polling station although you don't need them, bringing them just makes it faster. Once you've registered once, the registration continues until you change it. The only photo-ID I could get acceptable to most places it's needed is a passport, and the cost of that would be prohibitive to some people (it's about to go up to £85). In the US one normally only needs a birth certificate and with that can usually obtain a valid ID from the Drivers License agencies of the state. Not difficult. and do you really think that somebody in the US who is living a chaotic life in a trailer park a) has their birth certificate and b) will even think of doing anything before election day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrei Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 In the UK we get sent polling cards (for the specific election) in advance of the poll which allow rapid processing at the polling station although you don't need them, bringing them just makes it faster. Once you've registered once, the registration continues until you change it. Thank you for clarification. and do you really think that somebody in the US who is living a chaotic life in a trailer park a) has their birth certificate and b) will even think of doing anything before election day Why are Democrats so worried about trailer park boys?Aren't they Republican most trusted voters? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrei Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 What puzzles me is how someone who is smart enough to learn the complex game of bridge can be so shortsighted and silly as to believe these nonsensical stories peddled by high-school grad and radio talk show host Sean Hannity and other similar right wing propaganda merchants. obama-more-flexibility-russia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldrews Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 and do you really think that somebody in the US who is living a chaotic life in a trailer park a) has their birth certificate and b) will even think of doing anything before election day Do you think such a person is even interested in taking the time to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Do you think such a person is even interested in taking the time to vote? Actually yes, there are quite a few people who will vote when an election comes round, but show little interest in advance of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Clever - now President Houdini Dennison has made disappear a sentence that the entire world knows was spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldrews Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Actually yes, there are quite a few people who will vote when an election comes round, but show little interest in advance of it. Well, yes, but we are talking about individuals who have never bothered to acquire ID, who are pre-occupied with their lives, harrassed by circumstances, probably do not participate much in community/political actions, who now are suddenly going to make the effort to vote. Would you share what you are smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldrews Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Clever - now President Houdini Dennison has made a entire sentence the entire world knows was spoken disappear. Winstonm, You have my condolences. The world must appear very depressing for you at the moment. Just a few years ago Obama told us to get used to 2% GDP growth, and that those manufacturing jobs, well they were never coming back. And now, just 18 months into President Trump's first term, GDP growth for this last quarter is predicted to be 4.5+%, perhaps even 5%. There are so many manufacturing jobs that there are not enough qualified people to fill them. Wages are starting to rise for the first time in a decade. Millions of workers have received bonuses. Middle class taxpayers has received significant reductions in income taxes. Unemployment is at historic lows. And the world is getting safer. Progress seems to be occurring with North Korean denuclearization. Trump is reducing tensions with Russia. NATO members are beginning to step up to their committments for defense spending. Sanctions against Iran are beginning to have an effect. And the trade imbalances with the rest of the world is being addressed. China is being confronted. NAFTA is being renegotiated or replaced. Trump is pushing for everybody to drop or reduce their tariffs, restrictive regulations, and barriers to free trade. Or at least to institute "reciprocal" trade. Meanwhile Trump's approval ratings are inching up. Thousands of Democrats are abandoning the Democrat Party via the #WalkAway movement. Approval ratings among African Americans is running at 20+%, Hispanics at 40+%. The Democratic Party seems like it is lurching to the extreme Left. All of this happening during the term of an uncouth, unsuave, blowhard president. It must be very depressing. You have my sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Well, yes, but we are talking about individuals who have never bothered to acquire ID, who are pre-occupied with their lives, harrassed by circumstances, probably do not participate much in community/political actions, who now are suddenly going to make the effort to vote. Would you share what you are smoking? I know it happens in the UK, but fortunately they know they CAN vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 From Sex, lies and Michael Cohen’s tapes by Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg: Just another take on a routine scandal in the never ending puke-fest. Lordy, . I’m talking about the latest presidential sex scandal, the one in which then-candidate Donald Trump appears to have arranged for payments through his … I suppose I really do have to call him a “fixer” here, Michael Cohen, and through the National Enquirer to former Playboy model Karen McDougal so that she would stay quiet about the affair she says she had with Trump. Cohen taped a conversation with Trump and released it to the public on Tuesday night, so we’re all on that one now. That’s not the same as the previous presidential sex scandal, the one about Trump’s payoffs to porn star Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet about their alleged affair. Or maybe they’re both part of the same scandal. There are political scientists who study these things, and I suppose they’ll have to figure out how to categorize and sort all of this. The payoffs to women who (allegedly, I suppose) had affairs with Trump is a separate scandal from the set of women — some 15 of them — who have lodged various accusations of sexual harassment and misconduct against Trump, who I should mention is president. All of this makes it difficult to focus on the fact that New York is suing Trump for allegedly running a fraudulent charitable foundation. Which also includes the possibility of federal criminal action over tax fraud. That one disappeared from the news after 24 hours or so, but even if the news media don’t seem to care, it sure seems like a big deal to me, and one that certainly might have caused a feeding frenzy for any other president. Be sure, though, not to confuse that with the Trump University fraud, which cost the president a $25 million settlement last year. I’d love to see some polling about how many people are aware of either of the fraud stories; I’d guess it’s well under half of the electorate. And of course we still could get more in this general area. So that’s … oh, wait! I forgot all about the special prosecutor investigating Trump and his campaign for working with Russians interfering in the U.S. election and then covering it up. Yeah, that’s a fairly big one. Trump is also almost certainly violating both constitutional clauses forbidding domestic and foreign emoluments. And another categorizing problem: Is that the same scandal as the obvious conflicts of interest Trump has constantly involved himself in as president? Now, I haven’t mentioned some of the other abuses of power — things such as using his office to intimidate the press and to quash dissent outside of and within the government. Nor have I mentioned the various cabinet scandals past (and past) and present (and present). I mean, at this point, who can even remember which of them spent $31,000 for an office dining room set? (It was Ben Carson.) Some of these are certainly impeachable offenses, if true. Others? Not so much. But it’s terribly important to keep some perspective — by which I mean that we can, and should, care about scandals even if they don’t rise to the level of impeachment. At any rate, in what may or may not be related news, a new poll Tuesday found half the nation says they are embarrassed to have Trump as president, compared with a whopping 27 percent who say they’re proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 a new poll Tuesday found half the nation says they are embarrassed to have Trump as president, compared with a whopping 27 percent who say they’re proud. This means that virtually all Rebublicans (24%) but only 10% of Independents (43%) - and that does not bode well for re-election chances or midterm coattails. Then there is this: The latest Quinnipiac poll reports: American voters believe 51 – 35 percent “that the Russian government has compromising information about President Trump.” … The Helsinki summit between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin was a failure for the U.S., voters say 52 – 27 percent. The summit was a success for Russia, voters say 73 – 8 percent. Trump was not acting in the best interest of the U.S., voters say 54 – 41 percent. … A total of 68 percent of American voters are “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about President Trump’s relationship with Russia, while 32 percent are “not so concerned” or “not concerned at all.” It's heartening to see that few people really do buy into the propaganda that Dennison and his Fox allies continue to pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Still waiting for Trump supporters to reply to AWM's question. I note that they've posted in the thread after, and replied to posts that were written later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Well, yes, but we are talking about individuals who have never bothered to acquire ID, who are pre-occupied with their lives, harrassed by circumstances, probably do not participate much in community/political actions, who now are suddenly going to make the effort to vote. Would you share what you are smoking? The major constituency that will be affected will be mostly elder people who have been voting all of their lives but don't have photo ID. Why don't they have photo ID? They grew up in a time when it wasn't necessary, they don't own a car and don't drive so they don't need a driver license, they don't need a photo ID for any other part of their lives. The only reason they need a photo ID now is the Republicans hope that many of them won't bother which will prevent them from voting. Oh, and the assumption by Republicans is that the majority of these people are minorities who will tend to vote Democratic. Getting a driver's license is not that easy for some people. You have to contact a possibly different state to try to get a birth certificate if you don't have one, filling out a lot of forms, probably will have to get it notarized. In many cases, you'll have to find somebody to drive you quite a ways, especially for rural Americans, to apply in person and pay fees you probably can't afford. This is all designed to cut down on the vote. In answer to your question, what you're smoking is several magnitudes stronger than anything I'm smoking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas_P Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 The major constituency that will be affected will be mostly elder people who have been voting all of their lives but don't have photo ID. Why don't they have photo ID? They grew up in a time when it wasn't necessary, they don't own a car and don't drive so they don't need a driver license, they don't need a photo ID for any other part of their lives. The only reason they need a photo ID now is the Republicans hope that many of them won't bother which will prevent them from voting. Oh, and the assumption by Republicans is that the majority of these people are minorities who will tend to vote Democratic. Getting a driver's license is not that easy for some people. You have to contact a possibly different state to try to get a birth certificate if you don't have one, filling out a lot of forms, probably will have to get it notarized. In many cases, you'll have to find somebody to drive you quite a ways, especially for rural Americans, to apply in person and pay fees you probably can't afford. This is all designed to cut down on the vote. In answer to your question, what you're smoking is several magnitudes stronger than anything I'm smoking. Horse hockey. Where I live...and probably where you live too...photo ID is required to buy Sudafed. And you're suggesting that people be allowed to vote without proving they're who they say they are but they have to prove who they are to buy Sudafed? You must be smoking Sudafed (or a derivative thereof). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Horse hockey. Where I live...and probably where you live too...photo ID is required to buy Sudafed. And you're suggesting that people be allowed to vote without proving they're who they say they are but they have to prove who they are to buy Sudafed? You must be smoking Sudafed (or a derivative thereof). What has one to do with the other? The same people who are legally registered but would be prevented from voting due to a lack of a photo ID are the same people who cannot buy Sudafed for the same reason. Being unable to buy Sudafed is not a valid reason to strip someone of his vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 In Australia (I believe?) you either vote or pay a fine on the order of a jaywalking ticket. Yet the technological beacon of the world chooses gerrymandering and voter suppression. Huh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 In Australia (I believe?) you either vote or pay a fine on the order of a jaywalking ticket. Yet the technological beacon of the world chooses gerrymandering and voter suppression. Huh? It's called "Make America Great Again" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldrews Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 It's called "Make America Great Again" Would you be willing to give Trump the authority and power to straighten out and modernize the electoral system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Would you be willing to give Trump the authority and power to straighten out and modernize the electoral system? Trump is President. He has plenty of power to straighten out and modernize the election system. Even when responsibilities devolve down to the individual states, there is still ample opportunity for the President to suggest standards and best practices. To date, the only thing that Trump has done was appoint Kris Kobach to attempt to federalize his discredited attempts at voter suppression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Would you be willing to give Trump the authority and power to straighten out and modernize the electoral system? I would object to Dennison appointing the Kremlin to oversee USA elections. You can quote me on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 It's called "Make America Great Again" Speaking of that memorable campaign slogan, there is this: Made in China: Trump re-election flags may get burned by his tariffs I'm guessing there is a sizable group in the forum who fail to see the irony of this story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Speaking of that memorable campaign slogan, there is this: Made in China: Trump re-election flags may get burned by his tariffs I'm guessing there is a sizable group in the forum who fail to see the irony of this story. And they won't be brave enough to respond, either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Still waiting for Trump supporters to reply to AWM's question. I note that they've posted in the thread after, and replied to posts that were written later. It is somehow comforting to know that any time that Trump is having a truly abysmal week in in presidency... The sort of week where elected officials in his own party are saying that the man is unfit for office...One of those days where the administration is walking back and walk back of a walk back...A time when the yield curve is completely upside down and we have genuine trade wars going on with most of our largest trading partners... We can still count on Drews to demonstrate how completely detached from reality the true believers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldrews Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 We can still count on Drews to demonstrate how completely detached from reality the true believers are. That is my job, to bring your fantasies into display for all to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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