Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[barmar]

I would ask Romney a different question. "If you were the nominee, would you be soliciting and touting Trump's endorsement?" Oh wait! http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2584808?src=ilaw

You can't possibly be suggesting that politicians are hypocrites and opportunists, who change allegiances whenever it's politically advantageous.

 

The best recent sound bite was over the weekend when Trump was being grilled about David Duke's endorsement of him, and he tried to feign ignorance of Duke. Yet Trump is on record denouncing him numerous times over the past few decades.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/02/donald-trump/trumps-absurd-claim-he-knows-nothing-about-former-/

[Zelandakh]

I actually think this is really nothing in the grander scheme of all things Trump. In all of the cases where he "disavowed" or "repudiated" Duke it was in connection with his being KKK or a white supremecist. I see no contradiction in his doing that on that basis without noting the name - it is pretty much unimportant who holds the post, no? There are so many genuinely distasteful things to pick out, this one just seems like small potatoes.

[barmar]

I actually think this is really nothing in the grander scheme of all things Trump. In all of the cases where he "disavowed" or "repudiated" Duke it was in connection with his being KKK or a white supremecist. I see no contradiction in his doing that on that basis without noting the name - it is pretty much unimportant who holds the post, no? There are so many genuinely distasteful things to pick out, this one just seems like small potatoes.

Come on. David Duke is an extremely well known public figure. It's inconceivable to me that someone with the intelligence and experience of Trump could not know who he is (and would you really want someone so ignorant as POTUS?). Trump also claims to have "the world's greatest memory" (obviously hyperbole, since I've never heard any claim that he has Superior Autobiagraphical Memory, the rare condition where someone literally remembers everything they've experienced). And if you read the Politifact article, they have a number of quotes where he referred to Duke by name, not merely by reference to his position in the KKK.

 

I'm not even sure why he was so waffly when asked about Duke's endorsement, why not just reject it? Is he worried about losing the racist redneck vote?

[gwnn]

I know this is not exactly related to this thread, but did you know Donald Rumsfeld refused to confirm or deny that he's a lizard?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8Y2nO_8TM

[jjbrr]

Have you tried ringing the freephone number yet?

 

With what goal in mind? If I tell them not to come back, I would still need to confirm my address to them, which obv I'm not going to do.

 

(sorry for this derail)

[Winstonm]

I know this is not exactly related to this thread, but did you know Donald Rumsfeld refused to confirm or deny that he's a lizard?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8Y2nO_8TM

 

Probably a known unknown - or is that unknown gnome?

[Zelandakh]

Come on. David Duke is an extremely well known public figure.

Maybe...but I had never heard of him before this thread. :unsure: On the other hand, if you asked me to say something about the Grand Dragon of the KKK, I could probably manage that without having a name, or quoting a name given to me at the same time and promptly forgetting it again 5 minutes later.

 

 

With what goal in mind?

To find out if it is an official visit or a scam.

[kenberg]

I know this is not exactly related to this thread, but did you know Donald Rumsfeld refused to confirm or deny that he's a lizard?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=dK8Y2nO_8TM

 

Is Donald Rumsfeld a lizard? Later in the interview Rumsfeld is asked if he would trade France for Texas and Arkansas. The context is such that, I think, the question really was whether he would trade the security of France for the security of Texas and Arkansas, and maybe I have the states wrong, but you get the idea. Rumsfeld "ducked" that question also.

 

Of course Rumsfeld was on the show to promote his then new book, and the interviewers were trying to be funny or clever or something. A massive failure on everyone's part as near as I could tell.

[kenberg]

I scanned, and heard excerpts from, the Romney speech and I heard some of Trump's response.

Trump won.

Most unfortunate.

[y66]

Mitt Romney Aims at Donald Trump, Hits G.O.P.

 

At one point, Mr. Romney said: “Mr. Trump is directing our anger for less than noble purposes. He creates scapegoats of Muslims and Mexican immigrants” — with absolutely no sense of self-awareness. Mr. Romney himself played to the worst kind of xenophobia when he proposed getting rid of 11 million undocumented immigrants by forcing them to “self-deport.” He also listed Mr. Trump’s offenses — “the bullying, the greed, the showing off, the misogyny, the absurd third-grade theatrics.” Did Mr. Romney have any sense of irony when he said those words? For far too long, they could have been used to describe many in his party: legislators, congressional leadership, its policy makers.

 

It is an excellent thing that the Republican leaders have noticed the problem they’ve fostered, now embodied in the Trump candidacy. But until they see the need to alter the views and policies they have promoted for years, removing Mr. Trump will not end the party’s crisis.

Who said this: "Of all of the casualties of the internet, I miss irony the most"?

[barmar]

Maybe...but I had never heard of him before this thread. :unsure:

Well, you're not an American, his name probably doesn't come up as much over there.

[mike777]

To be fair this Duke guy has been out of the news for many many years...I think he was Grand Wizard, what 10 or 20 or 30 years ago?

 

In any event I see OJ Simpson is back on all the cable news today, everything else including the GOP race is kicked off for OJ. :)

[barmar]

To be fair this Duke guy has been out of the news for many many years...I think he was Grand Wizard, what 10 or 20 or 30 years ago?

True, but Trump says he has the best memory in the world, so that shouldn't be a problem for him. I don't have that great a memory for people and events, yet I knew he he was, and I don't aspire to the highest office in the land.

 

Actually, he left the Klan in 1980, and formed a new white supremacist organization, the NAAWP. After that he was pretty active in politics, including campaigns in the presidential primaries in 1988 and 1992, and the Tea Party urged him to run again in 2012. He was in the media in the 2000's. It seems like it's only been the last 5-10 years that he's been out of the public eye.

In any event I see OJ Simpson is back on all the cable news today, everything else including the GOP race is kicked off for OJ. :)

If it were a few weeks ago I'd suspect it was a publicity stunt for the TV miniseries about the OJ trial.

[kenberg]

I did watch some excerpts from last night's debate.

 

Cruz is going after Trump, Trump is interrupting, Cruz is saying "Take a breath Donald, take a breath, breath Donald, breath... "

The moderator: "When you guys are done with the yoga, I have a serious question to ask."

 

I may not have all of the words exactly right but that was the sense of it.

 

I have never tried LSD. Is this what it is like?

[blackshoe]

Friend of mine commented today that he thinks Sanders would turn out to be another Jimmy Carter. :blink:

[kenberg]

Friend of mine commented today that he thinks Sanders would turn out to be another Jimmy Carter. :blink:

 

He would convert to Christianity?

[Winstonm]

I did watch some excerpts from last night's debate.

 

Cruz is going after Trump, Trump is interrupting, Cruz is saying "Take a breath Donald, take a breath, breath Donald, breath... "

The moderator: "When you guys are done with the yoga, I have a serious question to ask."

 

I may not have all of the words exactly right but that was the sense of it.

 

I have never tried LSD. Is this what it is like?

 

No, this is more like methamphetamine.

[ggwhiz]

From Will Rogers: I'm not a member of an organized political party, I'm a Republican.

[y66]

Guest post from Christopher Buckley via The Spectator

 

The Trump (and Cruz) ascendency has at least provoked self-soul-searching among the influence apparatchiks of the Party of Lincoln. Now they are admitting: we did this to ourselves. We created this Frankenstein. For years we told our people that we were going to reduce government. We didn’t. For years we told them we would do something about immigration. We didn’t. We told them we’d reduce the deficit. We didn’t. We told them we’d cut spending. We didn’t. We told them we’d fix Iraq and we created Isis.

 

What else did we promise? Oh yes, reasonable medical insurance. Punted on that, too. Meanwhile, every day out in what we call ‘the real America’, real Americans are reading about the latest Scrooge hedge fund manager who’s made $100 million betting against the American economy, while their wages have remained stagnant since the 1970s. We failed them at another level, too: we bored them to death with unoriginal, platitudinous and feckless pols. And look what’s happened — now the ‘real Americans’ (that is, the proles) are enchanted by this candy floss-haired ranting populist who’s tapped into the deepest recesses of their frustration.

 

Is it too late to say to them: People! Please listen! We, your leaders have screwed up. But you do not want to hand this guy the keys to the White House. And heck — he’s renovating the Old Post Office Building, just down the street. If he really wants to live on Pennsylvania Avenue, let him stay there!

 

One can deplore Trump for his vulgarity, incoherence and demagoguery. But one mustn’t deplore the people he has enthralled. They may not have degrees, most of them, and they may be a bit susceptible to a voice that inflames their darker passions. But they have been disappointed and deceived, and their anger is real.

 

A similar argument, mutatis mutandis, can be made by the hard left on behalf of the Vladimir Ilyich of Vermont. His followers feel cheated — insulted — when they read of Mrs Clinton’s Wall Street consiglieres and capos who lavish her with six-digit speaking fees for lunch and dinner-time bromides. If all this depresses you, all I can say is: me too.

Dudus loquitur veritatem

[Winstonm]

Michigan and Mississippi, too? This is feeling too much like neo-fascism 1930s style.

[kenberg]

Michigan and Mississippi, too? This is feeling too much like neo-fascism 1930s style.

 

And Hawaii!

 

And from the Y66 article:

 

Is it too late to say to them: People! Please listen! We, your leaders have screwed up.

 

I think the answer is now clear. Yes, it is too late, at least as far as the nomination is concerned. Trump will be the GOP nominee. If they want to come out in favor of Clinton or Sanders, it is not too late for them to do that, but don't hold your breath. So yes, it is too late.

 

It is the Democratic nomination that is not yet settled. And neither candidate looks all that strong to me. This is ominous. I watched HC last night explaining that she wants REsults, not INsults. Everyone cheered. Hillary, Hillary, this is not going to do it.

 

An interesting tidbit. Both HC and DT had unkind words to say about Nabisco. Where have the jingles from my childhood gone?

 

N-A-B-I-S-C-O

Nabisco is the name to know

For a treat that can't be beat

Try Nabisco shredded wheat

 

Much catchier than REsults versus INsults. Maybe she should try it.

 

C-L-I-N-T-O-N

She will be the one to win

Hillary just can't be beat

She'll knock the Donald off his feet

 

I watched Race to the White House on CNN last Sunday. It was a somewhat superficial re-telling of the Kennedy/Nixon race. Apparently the Kennedy campaign played jingle commercials on the afternoon soap operas. And Frank Sinatra led sing-alongs of an adaptation of High Hopes.

 

A guy just can't lose with a campaign strategy like that. Such a powerful message raised voters from the dead in Chicago.

[helene_t]

Much catchier than REsults versus INsults. Maybe she should try it.

 

C-L-I-N-T-O-N

She will be the one to win

Hillary just can't be beat

She'll knock the Donald off his feet

Isn't that playing the Trump game? Avoid issues and just bragging about wins? Don't wrestle with a pig in the mud, the pig will win. And it will enjoy it.

 

538 just had a piece about Rubio being every GOP voter's second choice. This shows how terrible the voting system works. He is their most electable candidate and he is the one they would chose if they were to compromise on a concensus candidate. Now it seems he will come in 4th. If I were in that electorate I would be seriously frustrated.

[kenberg]

Isn't that playing the Trump game? Avoid issues and just bragging about wins? Don't wrestle with a pig in the mud, the pig will win. And it will enjoy it.

 

538 just had a piece about Rubio being every GOP voter's second choice. This shows how terrible the voting system works. He is their most electable candidate and he is the one they would chose if they were to compromise on a concensus candidate. Now it seems he will come in 4th. If I were in that electorate I would be seriously frustrated.

 

I was joking, sort of.

My point was that REsults versus INsults is embarrassingly dumb. I prefer the jingle, but not by much. Seventy years later, I still remember the jingle. Nabisco sponsored one of the radio shows I listened to, maybe it was The Green Hornet. Bzzzz. A memorable jingle. And jingles worked for Kennedy. So. Yes, I am still joking. Still sort of.

[billw55]

I have talked to some would-be R voters who say they will not vote for Trump. While they did not say what they would do, I suspect they will abstain rather than actually vote for Clinton or Sanders. Although they may end up deciding that any D is so bad that they must vote for Trump even though they dislike him.

 

I have said in the past that R voters would support any R candidate at all, no matter how big a buffoon. I didn't realize then how real this proposition would become. Looks like we are going to test it.

[blackshoe]

Talked to a guy today who said that though he is a Republican, if it comes down to Clinton or Trump, he'll vote for Clinton. Why? He thinks, based on a lifetime of doing business overseas, that if Trump becomes president, people like Putin, or the Saudis, or the Chinese, will eat him alive. Hilary, he says, is at least cunning enough to survive. He may have a point. Whatever happens, I suspect we're not going to enjoy the next few years. :ph34r: