Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Winstonm]

Well, Caesar was warned about the Ides of March. Ok, he should have listened.

I really do favor looking into what went wrong, I did not intend anything I said to be taken otherwise. My guess is that any hones investigation will find several overlooked warnings. FDR was criticized for Pearl Harbor, Hillary Clinton for Benghazi, over and over, and many things in between. At the time of 9-11 there was some claim, perhaps accurate, that the intelligence community had far too few agents who were fluent in Arabic. So my Republican friends, some of them, concluded 9-11 was Bill Clinton's fault for not correcting this. The San Francisco earthquake? Pin the blame on Mame boys. We have Rita Hayworth's word on that.

 

Look over what happened? Sure. But when the Ds find that all the Rs are guilty and all the Ds blameless, and the Rs find that all the Ds are guilty and all the Rs blameless, I get a little tired of listening.

 

I agree completely. Bill Clinton's pard of Marc Rich was ridiculous. Likewise, Fredo's pardo of Arpaio. I am in favor of removing by amendment much of the presidential pardon authority as norms that should have sufficed to stop abuse have been shredded.

[johnu]

Look over what happened? Sure. But when the Ds find that all the Rs are guilty and all the Ds blameless, and the Rs find that all the Ds are guilty and all the Rs blameless, I get a little tired of listening.

 

Sounds like another Fox (aka faux/fake) equivalency to me. Both sides are wrong so neither side is wrong...

 

If you go back to the Watergate days, the Watergate hearings were mostly bipartisan. Congress is supposed to one of the 3 branches of government. Those days are long past.

 

In particular, house Republicans seem to have abandoned any pretense of being an independent branch of government. E.G. Devin Nunes, the chair of the House Intelligence committee has vacated his position to be President Dennison's flunkie, hand carrying evidence gathered in his committee directly to the White House, and coordinating with the White House in what the NYT is calling potential obstruction of justice https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/opinion/devin-nunes-obstruction-justice.html among other flunkie acts. The House Freedom Caucus (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) is threatening to impeach Rod Rosenstein because he wouldn't hand over confidential information about the Russian scandal to them so they could presumably forward them to Dennison and his lawyers.

 

Hmmm, and I'm sure you have heard that the Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee closed the investigation of the Russia scandal in a party line vote and found no collusion. Very nice that they didn't issue many of the subpoenas that the Democrats wanted, or that they allowed many witnesses to avoid answering questions without using every means at their command. I guess they didn't have enough facts to come to a conclusion B-)

[kenberg]

Sounds like another Fox (aka faux/fake) equivalency to me. Both sides are wrong so neither side is wrong...

 

If you go back to the Watergate days, the Watergate hearings were mostly bipartisan. Congress is supposed to one of the 3 branches of government. Those days are long past.

 

In particular, house Republicans seem to have abandoned any pretense of being an independent branch of government. E.G. Devin Nunes, the chair of the House Intelligence committee has vacated his position to be President Dennison's flunkie, hand carrying evidence gathered in his committee directly to the White House, and coordinating with the White House in what the NYT is calling potential obstruction of justice https://www.nytimes....on-justice.html among other flunkie acts. The House Freedom Caucus (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) is threatening to impeach Rod Rosenstein because he wouldn't hand over confidential information about the Russian scandal to them so they could presumably forward them to Dennison and his lawyers.

 

Hmmm, and I'm sure you have heard that the Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee closed the investigation of the Russia scandal in a party line vote and found no collusion. Very nice that they didn't issue many of the subpoenas that the Democrats wanted, or that they allowed many witnesses to avoid answering questions without using every means at their command. I guess they didn't have enough facts to come to a conclusion B-)

 

And it sounds to me like you are one of those guys who, if a person disagrees with you, brings up Fox News. It simply is beyond you that someone who does not listen to Fox News, and most certainly I do not, could not find your argument clear and convincing.

 

We can get you and a Trumpie together and you can shout Fox News Fox News Fox News and he can shout Fake News Fake news Fake News. Oops. That's False equivalency False Equivalency False Equivalency.

 

I am no wise pundit but I am an absolute authority on whether I am getting really tired of this Fox News Fake News False Equivalency stuff. I am.

 

I think I need a break. At least long enough to mow the grass. After I finish, I can see that I have actually accomplished something. I don't want to come online and get into a discussion of Fox News. There I feel I have accomplished nothing.

[ldrews]

Looks like the resolution of the North Korean situation is starting to jell. Apparently North Korea is preparing to release 3 US prisoners. It appears that the "summit" meeting will be held in the Peace House in the DMZ. Kim Jong Un is making all kinds of conciliatory statements.

 

A group of Republican Congressmen are nominating Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

Not too shabby for an idiot, don't you agree?

[ldrews]

Kanye West, Candace Owens, and Chance the Rapper seem to be causing quite a stir in the African/American community. Kanye's support of Trump, Candace and Kanye's views on slavery, victimhood, and the Democratic "plantation" are pushing some people to rethink their assumptions and their political loyalties.

 

If 20% of the African/American community starts voting Republican, Democrats are toast.

[Al_U_Card]

And it sounds to me like you are one of those guys who, if a person disagrees with you, brings up Fox News. It simply is beyond you that someone who does not listen to Fox News, and most certainly I do not, could not find your argument clear and convincing.

 

We can get you and a Trumpie together and you can shout Fox News Fox News Fox News and he can shout Fake News Fake news Fake News. Oops. That's False equivalency False Equivalency False Equivalency.

 

I am no wise pundit but I am an absolute authority on whether I am getting really tired of this Fox News Fake News False Equivalency stuff. I am.

 

I think I need a break. At least long enough to mow the grass. After I finish, I can see that I have actually accomplished something. I don't want to come online and get into a discussion of Fox News. There I feel I have accomplished nothing.

Interestingly, I had never considered Fox News worthy of attention before this thread. CNN was my source for online and TV "news". Now I have Fox to compare to and the polarization potential is staggering. Sometimes I wonder if they are reporting on the same events ... such are the different conclusions reached about the same situations. Perspective is everything apparently.

[Winstonm]

Interestingly, I had never considered Fox News worthy of attention before this thread. CNN was my source for online and TV "news". Now I have Fox to compare to and the polarization potential is staggering. Sometimes I wonder if they are reporting on the same events ... such are the different conclusions reached about the same situations. Perspective is everything apparently.

 

The difference is one of news compared to propaganda.

[Winstonm]

I am not one to credit or blame a president for everything right or wrong. After all, there are three equal branches of government. With that said, there are some outcomes that can be traced directly to the man in the oval office. What are the direct accomplishments of the present guy?

 

1) Reduced government support for the Affordable Care Act and increased health insurance premiums for some.

2) A $1.5 trillion increase in national debt in order to primarily finance tax cuts to corporations, which is being used primarily for stock buybacks.

3) An unprecedented level of ethics problems with his appointees

 

Anything other than these items is open to interpretation. For example, who is playing whom for a sucker when it comes to North Korea?

[Al_U_Card]

The difference is one of news compared to propaganda.

Which one? ;)

[Winstonm]

Which one? ;)

 

If you can't figure that out unaided, you are helpless.

[johnu]

Looks like the resolution of the North Korean situation is starting to jell. Apparently North Korea is preparing to release 3 US prisoners. It appears that the "summit" meeting will be held in the Peace House in the DMZ. Kim Jong Un is making all kinds of conciliatory statements.

 

A group of Republican Congressmen are nominating Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

Not too shabby for an idiot, don't you agree?

 

Dennison tweated,

 

"As everybody is aware, the past Administration has long been asking for three hostages to be released from a North Korean Labor camp, but to no avail. Stay tuned!"

 

I think everybody can agree that getting North Korea prisoners returns is a good thing, yet it's another opportunity for Dennison to trot out a totally unneccesary lie to disparage Obama. Only 1 of the 3 was detained during Obama's administration. The other 2 were arrested after Obama left office. I'll leave it to you to decide who was the next president.

 

BTW. Taking foreign citizens hostage on made up or the flimsiest of charges has long been used by rogue governments to gain leverage over other governments. It costs them nothing to release them and in return, they are frequently rewarded for their behavior.

[ldrews]

Dennison tweated,

 

"As everybody is aware, the past Administration has long been asking for three hostages to be released from a North Korean Labor camp, but to no avail. Stay tuned!"

 

I think everybody can agree that getting North Korea prisoners returns is a good thing, yet it's another opportunity for Dennison to trot out a totally unneccesary lie to disparage Obama. Only 1 of the 3 was detained during Obama's administration. The other 2 were arrested after Obama left office. I'll leave it to you to decide who was the next president.

 

BTW. Taking foreign citizens hostage on made up or the flimsiest of charges has long been used by rogue governments to gain leverage over other governments. It costs them nothing to release them and in return, they are frequently rewarded for their behavior.

 

Something you could have accomplished easily, right?

[Al_U_Card]

If you can't figure that out unaided, you are helpless.

And you are humorless.

[Winstonm]

And you are humorless.

 

False equivalencies are no longer a laughing matter.

[johnu]

Something you could have accomplished easily, right?

 

I guess we will never know since I am honest enough to acknowledge that Dennison swamped me in the electoral college vote. I did tie for 3rd place with 0 votes along with 300 million other Americans.

[Winstonm]

We will know a lot more about this country in 6 months.

[kenberg]

We will know a lot more about this country in 6 months.

 

Yes, we will. This inspired me to look up how my Representative, Jamie Raskin, is faring. Five Thirty Eight scores representatives on how often a member votes in line with Trump's position. Raskin's score is 9.1 %. Not quite the lowest score, but close to it. As far as I know, he will be re-elected. I'm fine with that, I voted for him both in the general election and in the (very expensive) primary, I will again, but probably some of my neighbors are not so happy about it. I live in one of those Congressional districts that are often cited when gerrymandering is discussed. I don't see us turning Red.

[barmar]

If things go well with North Korea, I'll be willing to admit that this is a win in Trump's column.

 

I wonder if whatever agreement Mr "Art of the Deal" makes will have as many protections as the Iran deal that he claims is a disaster.

[ldrews]

If things go well with North Korea, I'll be willing to admit that this is a win in Trump's column.

 

I wonder if whatever agreement Mr "Art of the Deal" makes will have as many protections as the Iran deal that he claims is a disaster.

 

According to the Israelies Iran has not been abiding by the agreement any way.

[johnu]

According to the Israelies Iran has not been abiding by the agreement any way.

 

Among other people, noted "liberal" Pat Buchanan has other thoughts.

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/04/30/pat_buchanan_on_iran_bibi_has_been_crying_wolf_for_decades.html

 

but Netanyahu has serious support from John Bolton

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/opinion/to-stop-irans-bomb-bomb-iran.html

 

I suggest everybody chill out and listen to:

 

 

Nothing says "Make America Great" more than starting another war that we can't win.

[hrothgar]

According to the Israelies Iran has not been abiding by the agreement any way.

 

According to the Israeli's, Iran was actively pursuing a nuclear program back in 2003

Almost no one disputes this.

 

Netanyahu claims that this means that the Iranians can't be trusted to abide by the current deal.

There is very little support for this contention.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-israeli-nuclear-experts-disagree-with-netanyahu-about-the-iran-deal

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/netanyahu-defense-officials-disagree-on-whether-to-push-trump-on-iran-1.5451124

 

Netanyahu and Lieberman’s position is at odds with most Israeli experts in Military Intelligence and in the IDF’s Planning Directorate, the Mossad, Foreign Ministry and the Atomic Energy Committee.

[Winstonm]

Yes, we will. This inspired me to look up how my Representative, Jamie Raskin, is faring. Five Thirty Eight scores representatives on how often a member votes in line with Trump's position. Raskin's score is 9.1 %. Not quite the lowest score, but close to it. As far as I know, he will be re-elected. I'm fine with that, I voted for him both in the general election and in the (very expensive) primary, I will again, but probably some of my neighbors are not so happy about it. I live in one of those Congressional districts that are often cited when gerrymandering is discussed. I don't see us turning Red.

 

Bloomberg is reporting this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/paul-ryan-warns-of-subpoenas-gridlock-with-democratic-majority

 

House Speaker Paul Ryan warned that Democratic gains in November’s congressional elections could make it impossible to get anything accomplished and expose President Donald Trump’s administration to more aggressive oversight.

 

Should Republicans lose control of either the House or Senate, “you’ll have gridlock, you’ll have subpoenas,” with the whole legislative system “shutting down,” Ryan said Wednesday in Beverly Hills, California, at the annual Milken Institute Global Conference.

 

Not only will there be subpoenas, there will also be aggressive ethics oversight as well as emoluments oversight - all extremely ugly occurrences for the present administration.

[Winstonm]

This, from The Observer, is a damning report on how unscrupulous and relentless Donald Trump is in fighting to protect his delusions.

 

 

Aides to Donald Trump, the US president, hired an Israeli private intelligence agency to orchestrate a “dirty ops” campaign against key individuals from the Obama administration who helped negotiate the Iran nuclear deal, the Observer can reveal.

 

People in the Trump camp contacted private investigators in May last year to “get dirt” on Ben Rhodes, who had been one of Barack Obama’s top national security advisers, and Colin Kahl, deputy assistant to Obama, as part of an elaborate attempt to discredit the deal.

 

The extraordinary revelations come days before Trump’s 12 May deadline to either scrap or continue to abide by the international deal limiting Iran’s nuclear programme.

 

Trump’s dirty ops attack on Obama legacy shows pure hatred for Iran deal.

 

Jack Straw, who as foreign secretary was involved in earlier efforts to restrict Iranian weapons, said: “These are extraordinary and appalling allegations but which also illustrate a high level of desperation by Trump and [the Israeli prime minister] Benjamin Netanyahu, not so much to discredit the deal but to undermine those around it.”

 

One former high-ranking British diplomat with wide experience of negotiating international peace agreements, requesting anonymity, said: “It’s bloody outrageous to do this. The whole point of negotiations is to not play dirty tricks like this.”

 

Sources said that officials linked to Trump’s team contacted investigators days after Trump visited Tel Aviv a year ago, his first foreign tour as US president. Trump promised Netanyahu that Iran would never have nuclear weapons and suggested that the Iranians thought they could “do what they want” since negotiating the nuclear deal in 2015. A source with details of the “dirty tricks campaign” said: “The idea was that people acting for Trump would discredit those who were pivotal in selling the deal, making it easier to pull out of it.”

[johnu]

We will know a lot more about this country in 6 months.

 

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/overnights/386291-overnight-defense-inside-the-houses-717b-defense-policy-bill-bill

 

Dennison and the Republicans are trying to keep America safe by proposing a military parade along the lines of military parade in France for Bastille day that captured Dennison's attention for months. I feel safer already.

 

Cost and redeployment of equipment could be a drawback. Let me be the first to suggest that Comrade Dennison ask his good buddy Comrade Putin for the appropriate aid. Let me be clear, I am not suggesting collusion B-) which never happened and if it did happen was completely by accident.

[barmar]

Dennison and the Republicans are trying to keep America safe by proposing a military parade along the lines of military parade in France for Bastille day that captured Dennison's attention for months. I feel safer already.

Bill Maher has a checklist of 10 indicators that your leader is a dictator. The military parade, if it happens, would make it 9 out of 10 for Trump (the remaining one would be wearing a military uniform).