kenberg Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Does this not wave a huge red flag to you Ken? The healthcare that you think you need may well be rather different from what any such plan would envisage! :blink: Yes and no. It is one more indicator, hardly needed, that important problems are usually complex. I do not feel that as I age I should do the world a favor and die. I also don't believe the world is obligated to spend whatever it takes to prolong my life beyond what nature intends. Somewhere in-between seems right. Pursuing this morbid line a bit, an important thing to me is that I should have the almost uncontested right to end my own life should I choose to do so (no such plans at present!). Life doesn't go on forever, and I want the right, should I so decide, to say "We are done here". But until then, I think helping with the medical needs of aging is very reasonable. It is not good for people who have lived a responsible life to be bankrupted by medical expenses in the closing years of their lives. In the other direction, I would also be uneasy about my tax dollars supporting 10K a month nursing care for someone whose wealth considerably exceeds mine. So yes, saying "every person should get the health care that he or she needs" without further detail on what that means raises some questions, such as "What do you mean?: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Yes and no. It is one more indicator, hardly needed, that important problems are usually complex. I do not feel that as I age I should do the world a favor and die. I also don't believe the world is obligated to spend whatever it takes to prolong my life beyond what nature intends. Somewhere in-between seems right. Pursuing this morbid line a bit, an important thing to me is that I should have the almost uncontested right to end my own life should I choose to do so (no such plans at present!). Life doesn't go on forever, and I want the right, should I so decide, to say "We are done here". But until then, I think helping with the medical needs of aging is very reasonable. It is not good for people who have lived a responsible life to be bankrupted by medical expenses in the closing years of their lives. In the other direction, I would also be uneasy about my tax dollars supporting 10K a month nursing care for someone whose wealth considerably exceeds mine. So yes, saying "every person should get the health care that he or she needs" without further detail on what that means raises some questions, such as "What do you mean?: Along this line of discussion, do posters view assisted suicide as a constitutionally protected right? In others words is it against the constitution for your local town or state to ban assisted suicide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 I do not feel that as I age I should do the world a favor and die. I also don't believe the world is obligated to spend whatever it takes to prolong my life beyond what nature intends. Somewhere in-between seems right. Pursuing this morbid line a bit, an important thing to me is that I should have the almost uncontested right to end my own life should I choose to do so (no such plans at present!). Life doesn't go on forever, and I want the right, should I so decide, to say "We are done here". OED defines morbid as "Of a person, mental state, etc.: characterized by excessive gloom or apprehension, or (in later use) by an unhealthy preoccupation with disease, death, or other disturbing subject; given to unwholesome brooding". This line of discussion is anything but morbid IMHO. Not pursuing it often results in *very* costly, counterproductive and even horrific outcomes. Worse even than Trump becoming president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Trump's business record is abysmal. His personal returns have been average (at best). More importantly, anyone who was ever stupid enough to trust Donald Trump with any of their hard earned dollars have been taken to the cleaners. Case in point, the following chart compares the return on Trump Hotels and Casino resorts with the S&P 500. The period covered is from 1995 when this went public to 2004 when they were delisted. During this time, the S&P increased 250% and other casino companies saw their share price double. Trump's investors lost 90% of their share value. The returns from his other investments show the same basic theme. Trump has enriched himself personally, but his investors have gotten wiped out. Why would anyone want this corrupt boob in a position of power. If Trump makes it to the general, expect Hillary to hit this same theme relentlessly. (I don't understand why Right to Rise or some such hasn't done so already)This is all obvious to anyone except his supporters. One thing I have learned from his candidacy, is that the white working class racist demographic is larger than I thought. Maybe I was naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 OED defines morbid as "Of a person, mental state, etc.: characterized by excessive gloom or apprehension, or (in later use) by an unhealthy preoccupation with disease, death, or other disturbing subject; given to unwholesome brooding". This line of discussion is anything but morbid IMHO. Not pursuing it often results in *very* costly, counterproductive and even horrific outcomes. Worse even than Trump becoming president. That is one serious "worse". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 This is all obvious to anyone except his supporters. One thing I have learned from his candidacy, is that the white working class racist demographic is larger than I thought. Maybe I was naive.Trump's supporters clearly care little about facts. I'll bet most of them still believe his "birther" rhetoric about Obama (and probably now think that Cruz is Canadian). It's too bad The Colbert Report is gone, he would be having a field day extolling the "truthiness" of all the BS that comes out of Trump's mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Trump's supporters clearly care little about facts. I'll bet most of them still believe his "birther" rhetoric about Obama (and probably now think that Cruz is Canadian). It's too bad The Colbert Report is gone, he would be having a field day extolling the "truthiness" of all the BS that comes out of Trump's mouth. I will go out on a limb and predict any GOP candidate is going to lose the vote of the mass of Colbert viewers. :) I also predict they are going to lose Calif big, also, black voters, Hispanic voters, single women voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Driving from here to there, ot from to to fro, today I was listening to Fresh Air on NPR. They were doing a story on Atlantic City. It's a half day's drive from where I live, and I was there once nefore the casinos and twice after the casinos, never to see the casinos. The observation was made, agreeing with what I said some thirty years ago, that even when the casinos were doing well this did not much help the city. And, of course, the casinos have crashed. So why mention this. North Christie and Trump were very involved in the casinos of AC. A fundamental fact about running a casino: The idea is not to make money by socially productive enterprise, rather it is to cash in the fact that there are a lot of stupid people who will stuff coins or credit cards into machines. You build the thing, you bring in the suckers, you rake off the profits, the thing goes broke, you file for bankruptcy leaving the town and the suckers you got to buy in holding the bag. We keep hearing about how the GOP leaders just don't know what to do about Trump. They keep hoping he will make some huge mistake such as talking about a woman bleeding from wherever or dissing John McCain. He does ot, he gets applause. Memo to GOP bigwigs. Stop playing Trump's game. Put forth the fact that Trump watches out for Trump. He plays people for suckers, he is good at it, and you, dear voter, might wish to examine, in the light of Trump history, whether Trump will be watching out for you or watching ut for Trump. I'm no political genius but I hopefully can recognize a con artist when I see one. So can a lot of other people, but you may have to help them focus. The message: This guy plays suckers for their money and now for their votes. That's what he does. It is what he has always done. Trump takes care of Trump. Think it through before you vote. If the GOP leaders can get their act together and keep to a message that is both simple and true, this problem can be taken care of. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'm no political genius but I hopefully can recognize a con artist when I see one. So can a lot of other people, but you may have to help them focus. The message: This guy plays suckers for their money and now for their votes. That's what he does. It is what he has always done. Trump takes care of Trump. Think it through before you vote.Your message got through: Rubio labels Trump a con artist A con artist is about to take over the Republican Party and the conservative movement, and we have to put a stop to it, Rubio said on CBSs This Morning. He repeated the words con artist several more times and used the term in interviews with ABC and NBC.Meanwhile, a super PAC supporting Rubio released new TV ads Friday morning that will air in March states. One argues Rubio is an “expert” on foreign policy while Trump “knows nothing” about it. The other claims Trump “puts himself first, and us last.”Well done, Ken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I thought Massachusetts might be different, but I heard on the radio this morning that the latest poll here gives him a 21 point lead among Republicans and Independents here. The only difference is that Kasich is tied for 2nd with Rubio, rather than Cruz. From http://www.wbur.org/2016/02/25/wbur-poll-trump-clinton-sandersFifty-nine percent of likely voters in the Republican primary say they want a president who can bring real change to the political system. Only 25 percent say they want someone with the right experience to be president.I agree that a Trump presidency would certainly be a change -- but not likely for the better. Maybe his supporters think there's nowhere to go but up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Think about it Barry, there are not many groups less popular than politicians out there. I actually think Rubio's approach here is a little desperate. For me it would be better to connect Trump with one of the other extremely unpopular groups such as used car salesmen and estate agents. It is essentially the same thing, pointing out his crooked dealings and failures but the punchline seems to me more likely to resonate with voters. Time will tell. In the meantime, one of the UK's top weekly political programmes had a piece on Trump last night and the general consensus was that he is pretty much unstoppable for the Republican nomination and stands a very strong chance against Hilary. I think the optimism here that he will have no chance against a "real" political operator is too early. It is extremely easy for him to tap into voters' mistrust of Washington against such a clearly establishment figure and she comes across extremely wooden next to him. He will promise how he will sort the whole place out just like the boardroom and, sadly, voters will believe him. It would not surprise me if the final race ends up a lot closer than most here currently think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 voided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Your message got through: Rubio labels Trump a ‘con artist’ Well done, Ken!Thank you :)I have sent in my bill for services rendered! The problem of course is that the reaction to Rubio's comments might well be "Trump is a con artist? You just noticed?" But better late than never. Again from something on NPR today. Apparently Trump University had to renamed because it in no way resembled a university, and there are multiple lawsuits from former students. Of course finding out that these for profit educational enterprises are frequently (but very definitely not in all cases) running very close to the legal edge is hardly news, but the people running them do not usually get taken seriously as presidential candidates. The whole thing is a national embarrassment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Lindsey Graham: "My party has gone batshit crazy." Was just thinking the same thing. Even bats have more pride, self-respect and vision than these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The Danish newspaper Information asked a number of experts to comment on Trumps foreign policies. The concensus was that his policies are quite sensible. With the exception of his trade policies which will bring disaster on the us economy but will be good for Europe because we will take over some of the US trade with China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The Danish newspaper Information asked a number of experts to comment on Trumps foreign policies. The concensus was that his policies are quite sensible. With the exception of his trade policies which will bring disaster on the us economy but will be good for Europe because we will take over some of the US trade with China. Which policies would these be? Carpet bombing Iraq and seizing all their oil?Starting a trade war with everyone?Forcibly deporting 12M Mexicans and placing a tarrif on them until they built a wall?Going to war with China?Bringing peace to the Middle East through "The Art of the Deal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The Danish newspaper Information asked a number of experts to comment on Trumps foreign policies. The concensus was that his policies are quite sensible. With the exception of his trade policies which will bring disaster on the us economy but will be good for Europe because we will take over some of the US trade with China. We saw a Swedish movie yesterday, The 100 Year Old Man Who Climbed Out the Window and Disappeared. A very strange movie. Enjoyable, but weird. As we were leaving I commented to a friend "I'm Norwegian, not Swedish". Perhaps, based on the cited Danish expert opinion, I should also note "I am Norwegian, not Danish". I see Chris Christie has endorsed Trump. Maybe CC can get the vice-presidential slot on the ticket. They could run as the Atlantic City duo. Slogan: Reality be damned, play the slots, we're having fun. Disclaimer: I do in fact have Norwegian genes but I don't let that go to my head. In a back to my roots moment I once bought and cooked some lutefisk. I am not saying that I bought, cooked and ate some lutefisk. Perhaps it is an acquired taste. I haven't acquired it. From the Wikipedia:When cooking and eating lutefisk, it is important to clean the lutefisk and its residue off pans, plates, and utensils immediately. Lutefisk left overnight becomes nearly impossible to remove. Sterling silver should never be used in the cooking, serving or eating of lutefisk, which will permanently ruin silver. Stainless steel utensils are recommended instead. Sounds as if lutefisk and Donald Trump have their similarities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Which policies would these be? Apparently they think that his "real" policies are the ones he expresses in his more dowish moments, and the hawkish moments are just campaign nonsense. They may be too optimistic. But I think that while electing president Cruz is suicide, electing president Trump is more like Russian roulette. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think the optimism here that he will have no chance against a "real" political operator is too early.I have a feeling you're right. Many thought the same thing when he was first running for the nomination, and we've been proved wrong. At this point, I have no idea what the public is thinking, except that they see this as the closest thing to a "throw the bums out" vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Perhaps Trump should be seen as the white man's version of a rap artist, only without the rhythmic structure. There is emotion, resentment, belligerence. Slap the ho or slap the Mexican. It's BWA, billionaires with attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted February 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 With the conservative brain wired to place security as a priority, it makes sense that Trump has made inroads because he taps into the growing tribalism the separates rather than mends, segregates rather than blends, and isolates rather than leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Jimmy Kimmel did a great spoof on last night's "After the Oscars" special. Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick recreated their roles from "The Producers", but this time they decide to promote a candidate who couldn't possibly last (Trump), so they could pocket in all the contributions when he drops out. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/jimmy-kimmel-s-post-oscars-special-mocks-trump-with-the-producers-parody.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 And John Oliver, who has mostly been trying to avoid covering the Trump candidacy, spent most of his show refuting all the reasons Trump supporters give when asked why they like him. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-drumpf-john-oliver_us_56d40adee4b0bf0dab32a73c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 If you're using Chrome, this extension is a must!https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/drumpfinator/hcimhbfpiofdihhdnofbdlhjcmjopilp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 If you're using Chrome, this extension is a must!https://chrome.googl...ofbdlhjcmjopilp Not really following politics, but this extension has improved my bridge enjoyment a lot: http://snag.gy/Pru2o.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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