Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[barmar]

How can Paul Ryan allow Devin Nunes to continue as a chairman of the House Intelligence Committee?

Considering who's in the White House, the bar for "intelligence" is quite low.

[awm]

jobless claims at 48-year low

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/u-s-monthly-inflation-picks-up-jobless-claims-at-48-year-low-idUSKCN1GD55Y

 

I’ll make two predictions:

1. There will be a day in the next two years when unemployment is at least a point higher than it is today.

2. When that day comes, you will not blame Donald Trump.

 

The reality is that presidents have little ability to effect the economy (especially prior to Congressional action), that any impact the president can have will take years to pan out, that most of the good economic data is just a smooth continuation of the improvements that began when we started digging out from 2008 under Obama’s watch, etc. The reality is that you are choosing your news to fit your views rather than vice verse. I could do the same by pointing out inflation is going up (same article) or the recent stock market correction, or the weakening dollar, or the loss of retail jobs, or the “Trump slump” in overseas tourists coming to the US.

[kenberg]

it explains a lot more that you would participate in 23andme at all, for what that's worth.

 

Why? Probably this thread is not right for a prolonged conversation on this but my reasons are a mix of the practical and the curious. The practical is that I am adopted and know very little of my genetic history. I did learn a couple of years back that my birth mother lived into her 90s, but she also developed late stage Alzheimer's. Or so it was said. Someone in their 90s often has reduced mental capacity and this is sometimes just generically referred to as Alzheimer's without any careful medical diagnosis having been made. It turns out that I have none of the genetic markers for Alzheimer's, this pleases me and I think it will please my daughters and perhaps even please the grandkids. In general the genetic news for my health was favorable. I have gone through life leaving pages blank when filling out family history forms in doctor's offices. Information can be useful. But yes, I am also a bit curious.

 

I am guessing from your comment that you see an interest in personal genetics as somehow odd. That aspect might be relevant to the social/political flavor of this thread, so I will comment on it. I very much believe that we must first look to our own choices in making us who we are, but I also think that completely ignoring genetics would be willful blindness. Of course I was joking about the Neanderthal bit, I just got a kick out of it. I also found that I do not have the genetic markers that are usually found in "Elite Power Athletes". They are usually CC or CT, I am TT, whatever that means. But no, I do not blame my genetic inheritance for the fact that I did not win an Olympic Gold Medal. Genes matter, our choices matter more. Much more.

 

So this second paragraph might bring us back to politics.

[barmar]

it explains a lot more that you would participate in 23andme at all, for what that's worth.

I decided to try it a few months ago. Learned that I'm 99.7% Ashkenazi Jewish -- no surprise there. And I'm in the bottom 9% for Neanderthal variants.

 

Does this explain why I often can't relate to Ken?

[jjbrr]

no, sorry. i apologize for you actually taking time responding to my trolling. my comment was much more a reflection on the credibility of 23andme specifically as an organization than on your results.

 

amazon suggests to me that a lot of people (over a significant sample) have issues with dealing with them.

[kenberg]

I decided to try it a few months ago. Learned that I'm 99.7% Ashkenazi Jewish -- no surprise there. And I'm in the bottom 9% for Neanderthal variants.

 

Does this explain why I often can't relate to Ken?

 

That must be it! :)

[Winstonm]

Btw, Scott Pruitt, one of the president's best people, who now heads the EPA, has some odd beliefs:

 

Politico: (from Oklahoma radio station Pruitt interview tapes)

 

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt dismissed evolution as an unproven theory, lamented that “minority religions” were pushing Christianity out of “the public square” and advocated amending the Constitution to ban abortion, prohibit same-sex marriage and protect the Pledge of Allegiance and the Ten Commandments, according to a newly unearthed series of Oklahoma talk radio shows from 2005.

 

I'm just guessing, here, but I would certainly think 23andMe would find Pruitt with close to 100% Neanderthal.

[kenberg]

no, sorry. i apologize for you actually taking time responding to my trolling. my comment was much more a reflection on the credibility of 23andme specifically as an organization than on your results.

 

amazon suggests to me that a lot of people (over a significant sample) have issues with dealing with them.

 

I have not had any problems with them, but then my intentions were pretty simple. My interest in the health angle far outweighed anything else, they were clear that they were reporting on genetic markers and not offering a medical diagnosis, and that's what I expected.

 

The country, and the world, is caught up in questions of identity so the question of just what makes us who we are has relevance. I am at the extreme opposite end of those who can, for example, trace their family back to the first American settlers. As mentioned, I am adopted. My adoptive father came to this country when he was 10, brought by his older brother who was 16, an adult at the time. He was always unsure of what country he came from. Ellis Island says Hungarian nationality, Croatian ethnicity. He thought he was Austrian or maybe Czech. I have never developed the need to "search for my roots", not in any substantive way, but naturally I am curious. I never completely understood what Sartre meant by "Existence precedes essence" but if it was meant to place importance on choices I agree with it.

[jjbrr]

I have not had any problems with them, but then my intentions were pretty simple. My interest in the health angle far outweighed anything else, they were clear that they were reporting on genetic markers and not offering a medical diagnosis, and that's what I expected.

 

The country, and the world, is caught up in questions of identity so the question of just what makes us who we are has relevance. I am at the extreme opposite end of those who can, for example, trace their family back to the first American settlers. As mentioned, I am adopted. My adoptive father came to this country when he was 10, brought by his older brother who was 16, an adult at the time. He was always unsure of what country he came from. Ellis Island says Hungarian nationality, Croatian ethnicity. He thought he was Austrian or maybe Czech. I have never developed the need to "search for my roots", not in any substantive way, but naturally I am curious. I never completely understood what Sartre meant by "Existence precedes essence" but if it was meant to place importance on choices I agree with it.

 

i will point out for the record that my own personal genetics are of great interest to me. i happen to have awful genes, i suppose. i am now 31; i never knew my maternal grandfather -- my mother never knew her father. she was 3 when he passed away from heart disease. my paternal grandparents both passed away in my teens, my grandfather with alzheimers and my grandmother from cancer perhaps related to smoking, but addiction in general is very common in my family.

 

my own father passed away a couple years ago from issues related to cancer, though it wasn't necessarily obvious cancer was an issue because he lived his entire life with a degenerative bone disease that caused calcium buildups (real bone spurs) in his joints. he had both his hips replaced and was in desperate need for knee and shoulder replacements when he passed.

 

my girlfriend with whom i'd like to start a family has historical issues as well. these all weigh heavily on us when we discuss our future.

[kenberg]

i will point out for the record that my own personal genetics are of great interest to me. i happen to have awful genes, i suppose. i am now 31; i never knew my maternal grandfather -- my mother never knew her father. she was 3 when he passed away from heart disease. my paternal grandparents both passed away in my teens, my grandfather with alzheimers and my grandmother from cancer perhaps related to smoking, but addiction in general is very common in my family.

 

my own father passed away a couple years ago from issues related to cancer, though it wasn't necessarily obvious cancer was an issue because he lived his entire life with a degenerative bone disease that caused calcium buildups (real bone spurs) in his joints. he had both his hips replaced and was in desperate need for knee and shoulder replacements when he passed.

 

my girlfriend with whom i'd like to start a family has historical issues as well. these all weigh heavily on us when we discuss our future.

 

I can see why you might wan to do some genetic testing but from what you say, and I mean this, it does not sound as if you need to give up on the idea of having a family. We all benefit from healthy choices, and there might well be some things that are of particular importance for you to watch for. Obviously this is something that you and she must think through yourselves but it sounds, from here, like it's genes with some problems to be dealt with rather than genes that prevent you from having a family. Good luck. Fwiw, my wife has had both knees and one hip replaced. She still belongs to a walking group (fairly substantial walks) and teaches yoga. They told her the yoga would have to go, but it didn't. She teaches "gentle yoga". Modern medicine is truly impressive. But good luck, that's the most anyone can say.

[Elianna]

i will point out for the record that my own personal genetics are of great interest to me. i happen to have awful genes, i suppose. i am now 31; i never knew my maternal grandfather -- my mother never knew her father. she was 3 when he passed away from heart disease. my paternal grandparents both passed away in my teens, my grandfather with alzheimers and my grandmother from cancer perhaps related to smoking, but addiction in general is very common in my family.

 

my own father passed away a couple years ago from issues related to cancer, though it wasn't necessarily obvious cancer was an issue because he lived his entire life with a degenerative bone disease that caused calcium buildups (real bone spurs) in his joints. he had both his hips replaced and was in desperate need for knee and shoulder replacements when he passed.

 

my girlfriend with whom i'd like to start a family has historical issues as well. these all weigh heavily on us when we discuss our future.

 

It is still possible that, if one of you happen to carry a gene that could be detrimental, that's it's recessive so that if the other one of you doesn't carry it, your children won't be affected even if it's passed on (they'd just perhaps need to be careful about partners, but maybe these things will be solved by then).

 

The Orthodox (Jewish) community has a genetic problem, plus an interesting solution. The problem is that some genetic (recessive) diseases are more common among Ashkenazi Jews (and some among the Persian Jewish community) and so it is very important to get pretested before having kids. But if you happen to have a recessive gene and it gets known, it could make you much less marriageable. So in communities that rely on matchmaking anyway, the two people take an anonymous genetics test in HS, and get a PIN. When a couple starts dating, they can submit their PINs together, and it only tells them if BOTH have the markers (so that way there's mutually assured destruction preventing telling people about the other person, not that you're supposed to gossip anyway).

 

Sorry for the digression.

 

Good luck!

[jjbrr]

Thank you both. I don't mean to suggest that our problems are necessarily life-altering in any way. Everyone has some problems, on some level, it seems. We just want to be prudent when it comes to leveraging available technologies to put ourselves in the best position to have a successful future together, whatever that might mean. It might mean nothing. It might mean a lot.

[hrothgar]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-was-angry-unglued-when-he-started-trade-war-officials-n852641

[hrothgar]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-was-angry-unglued-when-he-started-trade-war-officials-n852641

NBC: Nobody at State, Treasury or Defense was told a tariff decision was being announced yesterday; no paperwork was ready; there was no plan for communicating with foreign countries, Congress or the public; people at the meeting hadn't been vetted.

[Winstonm]

And then there is more of this potential quid pro amateur quo whatever....

 

Yahoo:

NEW YORK (AP) -- The Securities and Exchange Commission late last year dropped its inquiry into a financial company that a month earlier had given White House adviser Jared Kushner's family real estate firm a $180 million loan.

[Winstonm]

 

 

This president speaking about the tariffs sounds like someone who has no grasp on reality, who fantasizes his world is the one he grew up in where U.S. Steel was preeminent and all he has to do to turn the clock back to the 1950s is to impose tariffs.

 

Certainly is good to know someone with this much self-control and grasp of reality has the keys to the nuclear arsenal. :blink:

[Winstonm]

Useful idiots again?

 

NPR

A prominent Kremlin-linked Russian politician has methodically cultivated ties with leaders of the National Rifle Association and documented efforts in real time over six years to leverage those connections and gain deeper access into American politics, NPR has learned.

 

Russian politician Alexander Torshin said his ties to the NRA provided him access to Donald Trump — and the opportunity to serve as a foreign election observer in the United States during the 2012 election.

[kenberg]

NBC: Nobody at State, Treasury or Defense was told a tariff decision was being announced yesterday; no paperwork was ready; there was no plan for communicating with foreign countries, Congress or the public; people at the meeting hadn't been vetted.

 

Back maybe a year or so there was a thread with a title something like "How could I vote for such a disgusting man?". Being disgusting is of course a bad feature but it pales in comparison with items like you quote above. We have a president who does not seem to know on Tuesday what he will do on Wednesday, and sees no problem with that. On PBS last night Mark Shields reminded us that the Trump supporters tell us that we should not take the president literally when he says something. This is somehow supposed to reassure us.

 

The decisions, if "decisions" is even the right word for spur of the moment acts, affect us all. Trade wars are good? Another thing that we are not to take literally? How should we take it? Why do we have to take it at all?

 

I don't think of myself as an "I told you so" sort of guy but for me the problem with a Trump presidency was always Trump. Republicans can be expected to advocate Republican policies. I might disagree, or in some cases agree, but there will be some sort of coherence. Not with Trump.

 

As the saying goes, Houston, we have a problem.

[diana_eva]

I just hope next time Muller goes for one in his family he won't decide to nuke some random country just because he's pissed and looking for a fight.

[Al_U_Card]

Ken, during past presidencies, were you not aghast at Bill Clinton's peccadilloes? Or disgusted by Nixon's illegalities? Or W's lack of "presence" etc.?

Is not Trump just another in a fairly long line of "objectionable" characters? Is not your system of government somewhat used to and protected from them? (The price being gridlock and inertia perhaps but necessary apparently.)

Here, in Canada, less is in play so we have smaller concerns.

[hrothgar]

I just hope next time Muller goes for one in his family he won't decide to nuke some random country just because he's pissed and looking for a fight.

 

I don't think that Trump will randomly nuke some country.

 

Rather, I think that Trump is going to try to "bloody North Korea's nose" due to some combination of

 

1. Wanting to distract from Mueller / rally the flag

2. Mental instability

3. General stupidity

 

After which I would not be at all surprised to see the North Koreans

 

1. Launch either a nuclear or chemical attack against Pusan

2. Start massive shelling of Korea

[Al_U_Card]

Trump will be in a rally in steel country so he had to play to his support. A minor move but understandable. Transparency by any other name would seem as strange (my excuses to the bard)....

[Winstonm]

I am shocked, shocked to find that insider trading may be occurring:

 

WaPo:

President Trump’s decision Thursday to impose crippling tariffs on the imports of steel and aluminum took many by surprise — particularly investors, as the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed the day’s trading down more than 400 points, or 1.7 percent, at 24,608.

 

But one billionaire investor and former Trump adviser, Carl Icahn, was seemingly unvexed, having dumped a million shares tied to the steel industry a week before the president announced 25 percent tariffs for foreign-made steel.

[Winstonm]

Ken, during past presidencies, were you not aghast at Bill Clinton's peccadilloes? Or disgusted by Nixon's illegalities? Or W's lack of "presence" etc.?

Is not Trump just another in a fairly long line of "objectionable" characters? Is not your system of government somewhat used to and protected from them? (The price being gridlock and inertia perhaps but necessary apparently.)

Here, in Canada, less is in play so we have smaller concerns.

 

Let me help you understand the similarities between Nixon and Trump. Nixon was a politician and a crook; Trump is not a politician.

[Al_U_Card]

Let me help you understand the similarities between Nixon and Trump. Nixon was a politician and a crook; Trump is not a politician.

Already crystal clear. Your system has its pros and cons (do they ever go to prison?) so you have to roll with it. Our pols are mostly boring or ineffectual but that suits our national temperament... ;). Who was your last Prez that you admired and why?