Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[RedSpawn]

The politics of fear. Fear of terror.....fear of economic instability....fear of climate change. You name it and it is not a solution waiting to happen, it is a means of appropriating our reserves and future. The last, truly inspiring and visionary President got a bullet for his troubles. Perhaps not too late for a change of course, but that will require more education and less placation. (Play-station?) :(

Agreed, we have exited the Information Age and entered the Paper Tiger Age. We are ruled and dominated by a culture of fear. It will cost us very dearly to subsidize and finance all of our visceral fears and insecurities–both real and imagined.

[andrei]

BOOM!

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JUST IN: @BrianRoss on @ABC News Special Report: Michael Flynn promised "full cooperation to the Mueller team" and is prepared to testify that as a candidate, Donald Trump "directed him to make contact with the Russians." http://abcn.ws/2AhU3Iq

 

Yeap, that was quite a boom ...

[andrei]

Why do you insist trying to score rhetorical points by stating facts that are a 3 second google-search away from being obviously false? Just so we can point at you and laugh?

 

Obamacare was passed after adopting 188 Republican amendments.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/21/us/health-care-amendments.html

It was the Rebublican members' of congress choice not to vote for Obamacare after Democrats adopted many of their suggested changes.

 

Really, where do you get your facts from?

 

 

My 3 second google search showed this:

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/mar/16/luis-gutierrez/rep-gutierrez-says-hundreds-republican-amendments-/

 

So, I guess, we need a list of all 188 Republican amendments so we can decide for ourselves.

[Winstonm]

Does the change in tactics of Trump's lawyers signal their awareness of information from Flynn that will implicate Trump? First Sekulow is quoted in article that "collusion" is not a crime, and second, Dowd spouts off that the president cannot commit obstruction of justice.

 

But then, collusion and obstruction may turn out to be the minor charges. I doubt Mueller is engaged in a fishing expedition here:

 

Germany’s Deutsche Bank AG has received a subpoena from special counsel Robert Mueller that seeks information on certain transactions in accounts held by President Trump and his family, multiple media outlets reported early Tuesday.

 

When the walls came tumbling down

When the walls came tumbling down

Everybody ran as they screamed at the sound

 

Def Leppard

[kenberg]

I am prepared to wait for the Mueller probe to unfold. That's in so far as the legalities are concerned. In all other aspects it has become absurd. A Trump lawyer says his client is not responsible for a tween in his, Trump's, name because he, the lawyer, wrote the tweet and didn't run it past his client? And the lawyer isn't fired? If I had a lawyer, fortunately I don't need one, who tweeted about what i had fro breakfast without first consulting me I would, at the least, fire him.It would seem to be at odds with legal ethics. And at odds with common sense. And it shows him to be stupid. And, and, and.

 

The whole thing hurts my head to think about it. But I can wait for Mueller, he has my sympathy for having to sort through all this crap. All in the job, I guess.

[PassedOut]

My 3 second google search showed this:

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/mar/16/luis-gutierrez/rep-gutierrez-says-hundreds-republican-amendments-/

 

So, I guess, we need a list of all 188 Republican amendments so we can decide for ourselves.

The development of the ACA involved many public hearings, the text was made available at several points to everyone in congress, and the democrats negotiated for months with republicans attempting to craft a bipartisan bill, a bill based on the republican RomneyCare plan. As did many of us who were Americans in 2010, I watched Obama's televised meeting with the republican retreat and his subsequent televised meeting with high-ranking republican senators and representatives. Obama, standing alone, took questions from republicans and answered the questions on the spot. When Lamar Alexander identified what he felt was the thing missing from the ACA -- tort reform -- Obama answered that he'd make sure that tort reform would be folded in (alienating part of his base) in exchange for Alexander's vote.

 

Of course, the idea then was that making Obama a one-term president was more important than crafting bipartisan legislation for the good of the American people. Obama did not feel that he had anything to hide. Times have changed, now, for the worse.

[RedSpawn]

Yeap, that was quite a boom ...

The confidant provided ABC News with new details on Friday about Trump’s instructions to Flynn. During the campaign, Trump asked Flynn to be one of a small group of close advisers charged with improving relations in Russia and other hot spots. The source said Trump phoned Flynn shortly after the election to explicitly ask him to “serve as point person on Russia,” and to reach out personally to Russian officials to develop strategies to jointly combat ISIS.

 

So how is Trump asking Flynn to be a point person on Russia about developing strategies to jointly combat ISIS = Collusion between Trump campaign and Russia regarding the federal election?

 

Furthermore, the Federal Election Comission(FEC) code says,

The Act and Commission regulations include a broad prohibition on foreign national activity in connection with elections in the United States. 52 U.S.C. § 30121 and generally, 11 CFR 110.20. In general, foreign nationals are prohibited from the following activities:

 

• 
   
  
• Making any contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or making any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any federal, state or local election in the United States;
  
• Making any contribution or donation to any committee or organization of any national, state, district, or local political party (including donations to a party nonfederal account or office building account);
  
• Making any disbursement for an electioneering communication;
  
• Making any donation to a presidential inaugural committee.
  
• Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to an FEC enforcement action, criminal prosecution, or both.
   
  

The violations of this code generally include contributions of money but may include things of value like works of art, precious jewelry, and the like that can typically have a readily identifiable market value.

 

It is going to be VERY HARD to quantify the market value of opposition research because no legal precedent has been set to treat an "opposition research paper" provided by a foreign agent as a "thing of value" for purposes of criminal prosecution. Why? Because the federal government is basically trying to prevent foreign agents from using DARK MONEY as free speech in our federal elections. Even on a good day, this "opposition research paper" is not a smoking gun without a readily defined market value. It is also a thing of free speech which presents some Constitutional safeguards that may protect Trump Jr. from any serious prosecution.

 

The treatment of the opposition research paper as a standalone "thing of value" is a straw grasper and most of the Washington elite know it. That's in part why they want to give Mueller as much wide discretion, lattitude, and budgetary support in the investigation to make the spaghetti stick against the wall.

 

But I am no lawyer, so let's look to Alan Dershowitz, prominent Harvard law professor and liberal author, about his assessment of the "thing of value" contribution under FEC laws versus Trump, Jr.'s 1st Amendment right to have access to that opposition research as protected free speech.

 

See https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/13/alan-dershowitz-donald-trump-jrs-conduct-likely-co/

[ArtK78]

All, we are $20 trillion in debt.

 

Where did our representatives find the moral courage to allow the nation to go an additional $1 trillion in debt to pass this bill over the weekend?

 

If THE PTB can't even balance the federal budget for one year due to the military appropriations and materiel needs, interest expense on public debt, and of course the ever increasing entitlement spending.....

 

WHERE THE HELL DID these politicians figure we should pass a bill that digs a $1 trillion hole in our public debt to keep big business and their political donors happy?

 

This is obscene politics and insane arithmetic.

 

We have little moral resolve and virtually no financial discipline.

 

The amount of the public debt is meaningless.

 

I guarantee you that 20 years from now the amount of the public debt will dwarf current figures, just as today's numbers dwarf the figures of 20 years ago.

 

Amazingly enough, no catastrophe has ensued.

 

By the way, the last time there was a budget surplus was during the Clinton administration. It took Bush Jr about 15 seconds to put the budget back into the red.

 

Furthermore, after a huge surge in the deficit in Obama's first year (in order to get the economy out of the Bush disaster) the deficit declined in every succeeding year of the Obama administration.

 

 

[RedSpawn]

The amount of the public debt is meaningless.

 

I guarantee you that 20 years from now the amount of the public debt will dwarf current figures, just as today's numbers dwarf the figures of 20 years ago.

 

Amazingly enough, no catastrophe has ensued.

 

By the way, the last time there was a budget surplus was during the Clinton administration. It took Bush Jr about 15 seconds to put the budget back into the red.

 

Furthermore, after a huge surge in the deficit in Obama's first year (in order to get the economy out of the Bush disaster) the deficit declined in every succeeding year of the Obama administration.

If you think $20 trillion of public debt is meaningless, wait until the USA enters an era in the bond market where our average interest rate on said debt returns to 2000-01 levels. Right now, the interest on that debt is about 2.28%; however, it was 6.594% in January 2001!

 

For FY2017, the USA paid $458 billion just in interest expense on our meaningless debt with a whopping 2.28% annual interest.

 

So exactly how much do you think our total annual interest expense will jump to if the bond market ever recovers to the January 2001 rate of 6.594% instead of the artificially low 2.28% we have now?

 

I assure you that if the ANNUAL interest on our debt jumps from a paltry $458 BILLION annually to a nice $1.3 TRILLION annually, our government will do more than crumble underneath its own weight as it scrambles to determine which agencies are going to pay for an $800 billion increase in JUST INTEREST.

 

Please note that if this scenario occurs, the EXTRA $800 billion in interest expense is more than the entire Department of Defense Annual Budget of $690 billion.

 

Our allegedly meaningless debt feels more manageable right now because we are riding on the tailwinds of an artificially low bond rate. We have been lulled into a false sense of security because we can increase the debt limit, continue to make payments on our interest expense without waking up the masses, and conduct government business. But just wait for the slow boil and the return of REAL bond rates on our public debt. . .

 

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

[jjbrr]

Good post on reddit about why the Deutsche Bank subpoenas are so important, in case you haven't been following along.

 

President Trump said the red line would be drawn at Special Counsel Mueller looking into the Trump Empire's finances. Why you may ask? The entire family is involved in laundering money.

 

We recently found out that Trump's first international venture in Panama City is a hub for laundering money.[1] He handed the business dealings over to Ivanka Trump and although many properties were bought the entire area is almost a ghost town.[2] The tower stands dark as very few people live in the properties. Turns out the owners hail from colourful backgrounds including Russian gangsters, drug cartels, and people smugglers.[3]

 

Rachel Maddow did a piece about a Trump Tower project in Azerbaijan.

In it Ivanka Trump takes a video promoting her family's building, but it turns out she wasn't filming at the Trump property as it was built in a rundown location.

 

The Trump organization has been laundering money for a long time. Here are a few examples from The New Yorker including his Taj Mahal Casino, projects in India, Uruguay, Georgia, Indonesia, the Philipines, and China.[5] Listen to this short NPR podcast interview where Adam Davidson explains what he uncovered while investigating Baku.[6]

 

Christopher Steele has stated that Trump's hotel and land deals with Russians need to be examined.[7]

 

Read what Felix Sater, a Russian bussiness associate of the President, offered President Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen. Felix Sater admits to working with the Kremlin under the guise of building the Trump Moscow Tower to help get Trump elected. Both the New York Times[8] and the Washington Post[9] corroborate this story.

 

“Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Mr. Sater wrote in an email. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”

 

“I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected,” Mr. Sater wrote.

Back in the 90s Felix Sater was caught up in a massive stock scam and flipped on mob families in New York. Guess who flipped him? He's on Special Counsel Mueller's team - Andrew Weissmann.[10]

 

Felix Sater attended Trump's invite-only victory party to celebrate his presidential victory.[11] Although Trump has tried to distance himself from Sater due to his colourful past, I find it very peculiar that he was allowed into an invite-only event at the Midtown Hilton. Moreover, in July of 2016 we know he attended a secret meeting at Trump Tower, no one knows what was discussed.[12] We know Felix Sater has been ready to work with Special Counsel Mueller's team.[13] Paul Wood, World Affairs correspondent for the BBC, wrote the original article for The Spectator.[14]

 

Here's another example to illustrate my point. Russian Oligarch Rybolovlev bought a Trump property in Palm Beach for $100 million, making it the most expensive property in America. Here's the kicker - after buying it Rybolovlev tore it down even though he had just paid $60 million over market price.[15]

 

Where this becomes even more peculiar is that the Russian oligarch's private yacht and plane were in the same vicinity as Trump or his associates during the campaign on several separate occasions.[16] For example, Rybolovlev's plane landed in North Carolina 2 hours before Trump made his stop there for a campaign rally.[17] Rybolovlev's yacht was in Croatia last summer where Ivanka and Kushner were vacationing. Back in March while Rybolovlev's yacht was anchored in the British Virgin Islands, Robert Mercer's yacht was anchored next to it.[18] Mercer[19] being Trump’s biggest financial supporter and Breitbart moneyman. [20]

[jjbrr]

Of course Trump's relationship with Deutsche Bank is interesting if reports are to be believed. In 2008 he owed the bank $330M, defaulted, and then sued them claiming they were responsible for the economic downturn. This, of course, was thrown out.

 

Trump settled this feud by borrowing even more money from Deutsche Bank. Specifically he was able to secure a "loan" from their overseas private wealth division, which unlike other divisions, will accept personal guarantees as collateral. Someone pledged that if Trump defaulted, they would pay back the bank.

 

This is a chapter from Luke Harding's book

[Al_U_Card]

If you think $20 trillion of public debt is meaningless, wait until the USA enters an era in the bond market where our average interest rate on said debt returns to 2000-01 levels. Right now, the interest on that debt is about 2.28%; however, it was 6.594% in January 2001!

 

For FY2017, the USA paid $458 billion just in interest expense on our meaningless debt with a whopping 2.28% annual interest.

 

So exactly how much do you think our total annual interest expense will jump to if the bond market ever recovers to the January 2001 rate of 6.594% instead of the artificially low 2.28% we have now?

 

I assure you that if the ANNUAL interest on our debt jumps from a paltry $458 BILLION annually to a nice $1.3 TRILLION annually, our government will do more than crumble underneath its own weight as it scrambles to determine which agencies are going to pay for an $800 billion increase in JUST INTEREST.

 

Please note that if this scenario occurs, the EXTRA $800 billion in interest expense is more than the entire Department of Defense Annual Budget of $690 billion.

 

Our allegedly meaningless debt feels more manageable right now because we are riding on the tailwinds of an artificially low bond rate. We have been lulled into a false sense of security because we can increase the debt limit, continue to make payments on our interest expense without waking up the masses, and conduct government business. But just wait for the slow boil and the return of REAL bond rates on our public debt. . .

 

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Is the interest "owed" paid out or is it more emission of other debt instruments? Cui bono?

[WellSpyder]

Is the interest "owed" paid out or is it more emission of other debt instruments? Cui bono?

Of course you can pay interest by borrowing more money if you want to, just as long as someone will go on lending to you. That doesn't make it costless, though, as you will find out if you try this strategy yourself.

[Al_U_Card]

Of course you can pay interest by borrowing more money if you want to, just as long as someone will go on lending to you. That doesn't make it costless, though, as you will find out if you try this strategy yourself.

Clearly, as the lending "institution" benefits from the interest received on the 8/9ths of the principle that it didn't have before the initial transaction. My work profits pay for that. US taxpayers are on the hook eventually but who gets the interest was my query.

[Winstonm]

Washington Post

 

Politics

Flynn told former business associate that Russia sanctions would be ‘ripped up,’ according to congressional witness.

 

I'm a little rusty on my Latin. Would this be the quid, the pro, or the quo? B-) This and the 19% Rosneft deal would make a tidy sum incentive for the corrupt-at-heart.

 

Tick-tock, tick-tock....

[jjbrr]

Washington Post

 

 

 

I'm a little rusty on my Latin. Would this be the quid, the pro, or the quo? B-) This and the 19% Rosneft deal would make a tidy sum incentive for the corrupt-at-heart.

 

Tick-tock, tick-tock....

 

Mueller knew about this in June at the latest. The things we don't know must be pretty astonishing.

[Al_U_Card]

Mueller knew about this in June at the latest. The things we don't know must be pretty astonishing.

Or, this is the best he can come up with even after such a long investigation?

[Winstonm]

LoL

[andrei]

I wasn't convinced until now, but this

 

Rybolovlev's yacht was in Croatia last summer where Ivanka and Kushner were vacationing.

 

really made me reconsider.

[Zelandakh]

I wasn't convinced until now, but this

 

really made me reconsider.

Since the original link did not give a reference for this, details can be found here.

[Zelandakh]

A possible further link to Michael Cohen (and the Steele dossier) is explored in this story. Edit: and some more background here.

[hrothgar]

Good article in The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/loyalty-depravity/547619/?utm_source=atlfb

 

 

And to watch them embrace the label “deplorable” even as they elevate a man like Moore is to suspect Sanchez was right in seeing ressentiment as “a resignation to impotence on the cultural front where the real conflict lies. It effectively says: We cede to the bogeyman cultural elites the power of stereotypical definition, so becoming the stereotype more fully and grotesquely is our only means of empowerment.

[PassedOut]

Good article in The Atlantic: Embracing Depravity

 

Now, traitors arent those who fail to ally with or actively break from the Republican Party; traitors are those unwilling to embrace depravity with them. Its a test of loyalty. Republicans must join Bannon in championing Roy Moore and savaging Mitt Romney, knowing the latter is the better man, for the same reason gang initiates might be ordered to slug an old lady as she leaves church.

 

Such is the fate of all who join in enterprises with Trump or Bannon at the top: A moment comes when one must either become complicit in depravity or exhibit disloyalty. The Republican Party chose depravityand now, so must all non-traitorous members.

Yes, the article supports this thesis and leads to this conclusion. And to think that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican! Sad.

[Winstonm]

Good article in The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/loyalty-depravity/547619/?utm_source=atlfb

 

I found the article helpful but troubling.

 

But national-level political communities really are communities now, in a fairly robust sense. Between dedicated cable and radio channels and the Internet, you really can live in them in a pretty literal and immersive way. But simultaneously—and maybe this sounds a bit paradoxical—political communities are therefore also more culturally autonomous.

 

This reminds me of the message attributed to an aide from George W. Bush era - that when we act we create our own reality.

 

At least for those who are immersed into the right-wing "community", the quote is accurate, and that is both frightening and sad.

[Winstonm]

Yes, the article supports this thesis and leads to this conclusion. And to think that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican! Sad.

 

I took this quote from your post as to me it seems critical:

 

Such is the fate of all who join in enterprises with Trump or Bannon at the top: A moment comes when one must either become complicit in depravity or exhibit disloyalty

 

How Americans in great numbers can fall for this binary choice con and dehumanize and dismiss their neighbors as "enemies" is both puzzling and of great concern. Finding a path to civil discourse with these people, I think, is important and may be critical, and it must be the ideas being challenged, not the person. No one who feels themselves under attack is apt to change his mind. But just as in the devoutly religious, a problem that is almost impossible to overcome is that a person may immerse himself so deeply into faith-like political fervor that his ego and his faith become entwined to a degree that makes them practically inseparable.