Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[PassedOut]

Here we go again? I’m a Depression historian. The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929.

 

“There are two ideas of government,” William Jennings Bryan declared in his 1896 “Cross of Gold” speech. “There are those who believe that if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests upon them.”

 

That was more than three decades before the collapse of the economy in 1929. The crash followed a decade of Republican control of the federal government during which trickle-down policies, including massive tax cuts for the rich, produced the greatest concentration of income in the accounts of the richest 0.01 percent at any time between World War I and 2007 (when trickle-down economics, tax cuts for the hyper-rich, and deregulation again resulted in another economic collapse).

 

Yet the plain fact that the trickle-down approach has never worked leaves Republicans unfazed. The GOP has been singing from the Market-is-God hymnal for well over a century, telling us that deregulation, tax cuts for the rich, and the concentration of ever more wealth in the bloated accounts of the richest people will result in prosperity for the rest of us. The party is now trying to pass a scam that throws a few crumbs to the middle class (temporarily — millions of middle-class Americans will soon see a tax hike if the bill is enacted) while heaping benefits on the super-rich, multiplying the national debt and endangering the American economy.

 

As a historian of the Great Depression, I can say: I’ve seen this show before.

 

In 1926, Calvin Coolidge’s treasury secretary, Andrew Mellon, one of the world’s richest men, pushed through a massive tax cut that would substantially contribute to the causes of the Great Depression. Republican Sen. George Norris of Nebraska said that Mellon himself would reap from the tax bill “a larger personal reduction [in taxes] than the aggregate of practically all the taxpayers in the state of Nebraska.” The same is true now of Donald Trump, the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adelson and other fabulously rich people.

Those who donate huge sums to buy congressional seats naturally expect a solid return on their investments. Looks like there's a good chance that those investments will pay off again, and the war against the middle class will mark another triumph. Sad.

[ldrews]

Are your questions at the end of all your posts intended to be rhetorical? Do you handle difficult problems by asking other people questions that you yourself don't know the answer to? It's a weird way to post on a message board.

 

I was under the impression that this is a discussion board. Asking questions is one of the ways to invite discussion. Giving an opinion usually shuts down discussion or invokes argument, not discussion. Since you think my asking questions, rhetorical or not, is weird, you must prefer just giving opinions.

[hrothgar]

I was under the impression that this is a discussion board. Asking questions is one of the ways to invite discussion. Giving an opinion usually shuts down discussion or invokes argument, not discussion. Since you think my asking questions, rhetorical or not, is weird, you must prefer just giving opinions.

 

Drew, Drews, Drews...

 

You do realize that you have a posting history, right? So when you make comments like the following

 

Excuse me, but I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, apparently you are. I am just posting

a viewpoint opposed to the groupthink so prevalent here. We will see how it all turns out at the next elections.

 

people who remember them can find them and bring them back up at inconvenient times...

 

For example, here you seem to be making a claim that you are posting crap because this is a discussion board and you are trying to invite discussion, however, we already have examples where you have directly stated that you aren't interested in discussions, rather, you just get off lobbing ***** bombs into the middle of the table.

 

So don't pretend that you're interested in discussion or anything like an interactive discussion.

 

You're just posting ***** because any attention, even if its folks calling you an asshole, is better than your sad lonely little life down there in Mexico...

[ldrews]

Drew, Drews, Drews...

 

You do realize that you have a posting history, right? So when you make comments like the following

 

 

 

people who remember them can find them and bring them back up at inconvenient times...

 

For example, here you seem to be making a claim that you are posting crap because this is a discussion board and you are trying to invite discussion, however, we already have examples where you have directly stated that you aren't interested in discussions, rather, you just get off lobbing ***** bombs into the middle of the table.

 

So don't pretend that you're interested in discussion or anything like an interactive discussion.

 

You're just posting ***** because any attention, even if its folks calling you an asshole, is better than your sad lonely little life down there in Mexico...

 

Wow, I must really get under your skin! So sad.

[hrothgar]

Wow, I must really get under your skin! So sad.

 

Notice the complete inability to address the actual comments and the need to resort to diversion...

 

With this said and done, yes, you really get under my skin.

 

I have led a privileged life which has allowed me to (pretty much) isolate myself from the likes of you.

 

Anyone who exhibited the gleeful belligerent ignorance that is your stock in trade would have been unceremoniously drummed out of

 

1. The companies in which I work
   
2. The universities in which I have studied
   
3. The social groups that I enjoy
   

 

And let me be very specific here... There are plenty of conservatives where I work. The Economics, Business, and Engineering departments at MIT have a bunch more. There are even some conservatives and libertarians in my social circles. And I get along fine with them...

 

What distinguishes them from you is that they are actually interested in intelligent dialogue. Moreover, they understand that a spouting a bunch of nonsense and then complaining about "Libtards' does not form the basis for any kind of a discussion.

 

So yes, I have limited experience with idiots like yourself. Moreover, while I understand how to deal with them F2F and in better moderated environments, I rally don't have much clue what to do in areas like the watercooler.

 

Ignoring you doesn't work

Confronting you doesn't work

And the moderators don't do jack *****...

 

So, yes, "You get under my skin".

 

On the bright side, from what I can tell, with the exception of a few other trolls, most everyone else seems to despise you as well so at least I stand in good campany.

[kenberg]

Here we go again? I’m a Depression historian. The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929.

 

 

Those who donate huge sums to buy congressional seats naturally expect a solid return on their investments. Looks like there's a good chance that those investments will pay off again, and the war against the middle class will mark another triumph. Sad.

 

 

 

It helps to be able to recognize a con job when we see one. Two features of the tax plan:

1. There is a tax cut for the middle class that will expire but "could be extended".

2. There in an almost universally acknowledged massive gap between projected income and spending that we are told will be dealt with later.

 

Every child is taught, or should be taught, that "sign here, we will take care of the details later" is a sure indication of a scam.

[hrothgar]

It helps to be able to recognize a con job when we see one. Two features of the tax plan:

1. There is a tax cut for the middle class that will expire but "could be extended".

2. There in an almost universally acknowledged massive gap between projected income and spending that we are told will be dealt with later.

 

Every child is taught, or should be taught, that "sign here, we will take care of the details later" is a sure indication of a scam.

 

In addition to this, the sheer number of outright lies that are being mad about the new tax plan are incredible...

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/opinion/republican-tax-lies-fed.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront

[hrothgar]

Oooh! the first Flynn indictments are dropping...

[jjbrr]

hrothgar, it's not entirely clear that we'd get along great in a social setting, but i respect you immensely for your honesty.

[Al_U_Card]

Here we go again? I’m a Depression historian. The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929.

 

 

Those who donate huge sums to buy congressional seats naturally expect a solid return on their investments. Looks like there's a good chance that those investments will pay off again, and the war against the middle class will mark another triumph. Sad.

Tax "reform" notwithstanding, I expect that monetary policy (as in the Great Depression) is more to be feared. All the loose cash (QE) will make the attrition all the greater when those debts are called in and no one can pay. Loss of tangibles? Debtor's prison? Indentured servitude? All just a way to extract value from the masses, like the plutocrats have been doing since commerce was invented.

[Winstonm]

This just in:

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, marking another milestone in the wide-ranging probe of Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

 

 

By pleading guilty to one lonely count when faced with so many serious charges, Flynn signals that he is now a co-operating witness for Mueller. This is really bad news for Teflon Don. Tick-tock, tick-tock....

[Winstonm]

BOOM!

 

ABC News‏Verified account

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JUST IN: @BrianRoss on @ABC News Special Report: Michael Flynn promised "full cooperation to the Mueller team" and is prepared to testify that as a candidate, Donald Trump "directed him to make contact with the Russians." http://abcn.ws/2AhU3Iq

[Zelandakh]

BOOM!

Brian Ross@ABC

[Zelandakh]

What are the odds that "a senior member" = Jared Kushner?

[hrothgar]

hrothgar, it's not entirely clear that we'd get along great in a social setting

 

but, but, but...

 

I'm charming, really I am, and a great conversationist, and a stellar cook and ever so modest...

[Zelandakh]

I'm charming, really I am, and a great conversationist, and a stellar cook and ever so modest...

Is this meant to be your best Trump impression...?

[jjbrr]

but, but, but...

 

I'm charming, really I am, and a great conversationist, and a stellar cook and ever so modest...

 

I have family in Worcester. Next time I'm in town, sushi's on me.

[hrothgar]

I have family in Worcester. Next time I'm in town, sushi's on me.

 

Be careful what you promise, I am so not a cheap date...

[jjbrr]

Justin told me as much

[y66]

From Michael Flynn’s Guilty Plea: 10 Key Takeaways by Harry Litman in today's NYT:

 

Michael Flynn’s plea on Friday to a single count of lying to the F.B.I. is a seismic event in the special counsel investigation.

 

For starters, it portends the likelihood of impeachable charges being brought against the president of the United States. Mr. Flynn, a former national security adviser, acknowledged that he was cooperating with the investigation. His testimony could bring into the light a scandal of historic proportions in which the not-yet-installed Trump administration, including Donald Trump personally, sought to subvert American foreign policy before taking office.

 

The repercussions of the plea will be months in the making, but it’s not an exaggeration to say that the events to which Mr. Flynn has agreed to testify will take their place in the history books alongside the Watergate and Iran-contra scandals.

 

We’re in new — and highly inflammatory — territory. Here are 10 immediate takeaways from today’s news.

Harry who? Litman is a former United States attorney and deputy assistant attorney general.

[gwnn]

[PassedOut]

I have family in Worcester.

Small world - so do I: One of our nieces is a professor at Clark University (and an alpha cook) and will be with us for the holidays.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I see that the White House statement refers to Flynn as a "former Obama administration official."

:lol:

[Winstonm]

 

On the first day of Christmas, Bob Mueller gave to me.....

[kenberg]

Small world - so do I: One of our nieces is a professor at Clark University (and an alpha cook) and will be with us for the holidays.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I see that the White House statement refers to Flynn as a "former Obama administration official."

:lol:

 

I try to imagine what life is like for people who have to get up in the morning and talk like this. When I was 17 I worked for a while as a door to door salesman. That's the closest i can come to in my own experience. Or I get called on the phone and a voice tells me I have been randomly selected as the lucky recipient of blah blah blah. My idea of being down and out is having to take such a job.

[ggwhiz]

I mostly replay the news of the day on youtube and can't stomach FOX for over a minute but today was worth it.

 

Anchor and a panel of 4 more and I could have sworn I was watching a wake.