Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[awm]

Seems to me that Trump talks a lot about other countries doing more and the US having less military involvement abroad. He also talks a lot about how we need to make better deals and how he can (or did) save the US money on some of these expensive planes and other military hardware.

 

So... Why does he want a 50 billion dollar INCREASE in the military budget?

[Winstonm]

I would take that a step further: The US should not be the primary or dominant defender of the western world. The western world is now prosperous enough to look to its own defense. The US should constrain itself to do the same.

 

Tribalism is a useless strategy in an interdependent world.

[ldrews]

Tribalism is a useless strategy in an interdependent world.

 

But nationalism not so much.

[Winstonm]

But nationalism not so much.

 

Same thing - different tribes.

[ldrews]

Same thing - different tribes.

 

So, you do not support the US Government putting consideration of US citizens concerns and needs ahead of other nations' concerns and needs?

[Winstonm]

So, you do not support the US Government putting consideration of US citizens concerns and needs ahead of other nations' concerns and needs?

 

My support or non-support has nothing to do with nationalism. You know this. Or you should. But it sounds like you now agree that nationalism is tribalism on a larger scale.

[Winstonm]

I think these are the two most important paragraphs written so far this century:

 

If the Times or the Post (or Salon) reported tomorrow that Donald Trump was deeply in debt to shadowy Russian billionaires and had received direct instructions from Kremlin spymasters, how many of his supporters would notice, believe it or care? Of course I believe such a story would be worth reporting, and of course I believe (or at least hope) that the vestigial machinery of democracy would be forced to respond.

 

But honestly, who knows? In a universe shaped by the blatant untruths and racist fantasies of right-wing media, where Barack Obama’s birthplace was a mystery, the Sandy Hook shootings might have been staged and millions of people who were not obviously suffering from severe mental illness took the Pizzagate “scandal” seriously, the difference between news and fake news comes to seem like a matter of taste or opinion. Edsall quotes Samuel Greene of King’s College London to the effect that the crisis of democracy is not happening because “our information landscape is open and fluid, but because voters’ perceptions have become untethered from reality. . . . Thus, the news we consume has become as much about emotion and identity as about facts.”

 

If we cannot find a way to restore the norms of truth, then democracy is doomed.

[ldrews]

I think these are the two most important paragraphs written so far this century:

 

 

 

If we cannot find a way to restore the norms of truth, then democracy is doomed.

 

It seems to me that the two factions are so polarized that these issues will only be resolved across battle lines. Nobody is listening to each other.

[ldrews]

My support or non-support has nothing to do with nationalism. You know this. Or you should. But it sounds like you now agree that nationalism is tribalism on a larger scale.

 

Evasive answer to a direct question. So I may assume that you do not support nationalism, i.e., the primacy of care and protection of its citizens by the nation's government.

 

I understand. But I would not vote for you, or anyone else holding your views, to be my national leader. Of course I acknowledge that you are not asking for any votes. But even so.

[Winstonm]

Evasive answer to a direct question. So I may assume that you do not support nationalism, i.e., the primacy of care and protection of its citizens by the nation's government.

 

I understand. But I would not vote for you, or anyone else holding your views, to be my national leader. Of course I acknowledge that you are not asking for any votes. But even so.

 

I won't lose any sleep over the loss.

[Winstonm]

It seems to me that the two factions are so polarized that these issues will only be resolved across battle lines. Nobody is listening to each other.

 

What factions are those, truth verses what....propaganda?

[ldrews]

What factions are those, truth verses what....propaganda?

 

See you on the battlefield.

[nige1]

What factions are those, truth verses what....propaganda?

propaganda v propaganda :)

[Vampyr]

I think these are the two most important paragraphs written so far this century:

 

 

 

If we cannot find a way to restore the norms of truth, then democracy is doomed.

 

Where did you get this?

[Winstonm]

propaganda v propaganda :)

 

No. Evidence based facts are not propaganda.

[Winstonm]

See you on the battlefield.

You going to try to retake the Alamo?

[Winstonm]

Where did you get this?

 

Can the Media Get It Together to Sink Trump?

The "opposition party" is finally awaking, but it may be too late for American democracy.

By Andrew O'Hehir / Salon March 4, 2017

[rmnka447]

Seems to me that Trump talks a lot about other countries doing more and the US having less military involvement abroad. He also talks a lot about how we need to make better deals and how he can (or did) save the US money on some of these expensive planes and other military hardware.

 

So... Why does he want a 50 billion dollar INCREASE in the military budget?

If you believe assessments about our military, it's in about the same shape as some of our infrastructure -- workable, but crumbling. There have been plenty of stories recently about how the Air Force has to cannibalize parts from some planes to keep barely sufficient number of planes operational for current commitments, that there aren't enough Army units that are combat ready, that troops currently deployed to hot spots are giving their weapons and equipment to their replacements troops so they can be fully equipped for the mission, etc. Part of that undoubtedly is from being engaged in conflicts in the Middle East for so long and having equipment wear out or be destroyed. Part of it is from equipment becoming obsolete.

 

So what? Our military strength and preparedness is a big part of our ability to execute our foreign policy and impinge on World affairs. If you have a reasonably strong and capable military, and, if necessary, are willing to use it, then it adds credence to what you are saying diplomatically. Or, as Theodore Roosevelt used to say, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick." If you don't have that strength, then all your tough talk is hollow, useless, and will be ignored by your potential adversaries.

 

As President Trump says, there are a lot of bad dudes out there. Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, etc. They are presently acting aggressively to test and push the US and lessen its influence around the world in favor of increasing their own. At some point, if those aggressive actions continued unchecked, it means we'll have to accept the hegemony of these bad dudes rather than our own, hopefully, benign influence around the world.

 

Let's take Russia. If you take a look at Russia's history through the 20th century, you understand one thing. Russians are tough. Any country that has undergone the ordeals they did is going to be left with people who are really tough and hard. (In WWII, they lost something like 10MM-20MM people I think) As a result, they only respect and respond to strength. If you are going to deal with them, you have to be strong and resolute. And likely, they are going to test how strong and resolute you are. If they sense weakness, they will take advantage of it. That's exactly what Putin did with his adventurism in the Ukraine when he figured out how weak President Obama was and that there'd be no consequences other than some burdensome sanctions for acting as he did.

 

It appears that President Trump is pursuing a two track approach to strengthening our military.

 

On one track, he wants to make sure the money we spend on the military is well spent, so we get maximum utility out of every dollar we spend. That means negotiating fair prices for military hardware we purchase and not overspending on the development of new military equipment. That's a similar approach to that President John F. Kennedy used when he appointed Robert McNamara, who was President of Ford, to be his Defense Secretary.

 

On the other track, if current spending can't supply the things needed to even maintain our current capabilities and preparedness, then additional funds are necessary for that. In addition, as we move forward, some military equipment and systems become dated and obsolete, and you need to replace them with newer, up-to-date equipment and systems. But those new systems don't just magically appear when needed. So you have to provide some funds for development of these new systems because of the lead time to have them ready to be procured when needed. But for these new systems to be ready "on time", you can't just rely on potential savings elsewhere. They require some up front spending.

 

These two tracks are not mutually exclusive, but can be quite complementary. If done right, developing efficiencies and savings in military spending will offset some of the additional funding for development and keep military spending under control as possible over time.

[kenberg]

The Gridiron dinner was last night, reported at

https://www.washingt...m=.988e99a5b4d1

 

A line I liked from Joni Ernst:

 

Ernst poked fun of the age of the average senator: "I'm not saying the men in the Senate are old, but Bernie Sanders calls me 'jailbait.'

 

But nothing is funny anymore. Too bad.

[y66]

Yes it is too bad. My wife and I saw City of Conversation at the Arena Stage in DC which is about the decline of collegiality in DC which it traces to the decline of the Georgetown social scene due to the arrival of the Carters (they weren't into the social scene), the arrival of the Reagans (they imported their own social scene) and the introduction of jet airplanes which made it possible for everyone to leave town on weekends and killed what used to be a community of political adversaries determined to get stuff done by day and drinking buddies and dinner companions by night. No idea how you get back to that.

[jogs]

As President Trump says, there are a lot of bad dudes out there. Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, etc. They are presently acting aggressively to test and push the US and lessen its influence around the world in favor of increasing their own. At some point, if those aggressive actions continued unchecked, it means we'll have to accept the hegemony of these bad dudes rather than our own, hopefully, benign influence around the world.

Russia and China are rational evil. Iran and North Korea are just scary.

[mike777]

Seems to me that Trump talks a lot about other countries doing more and the US having less military involvement abroad. He also talks a lot about how we need to make better deals and how he can (or did) save the US money on some of these expensive planes and other military hardware.

 

So... Why does he want a 50 billion dollar INCREASE in the military budget?

 

for starters I read that 50% of our planes are unable to fly....yes 50% or more.

 

of course this makes me wonder how many of most other countries cannot fly....

 

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also if reports are accurate most of our "combat brigades" are not combat ready and able to deploy.

 

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also if reports are accurate accident rates are increasing at an ever increasing rate.

 

 

 

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to put it another way 50 billion will not pay for one new plane,,,ship or brigade....only to repair...fix...spare parts...etc.

which again makes me wonder about how ready other countries are able to deploy and fight

[mike777]

Russia and China are rational evil. Iran and North Korea are just scary.

 

I would add the entire situation in Pakistan is scary.

[Winstonm]

for starters I read that 50% of our planes are unable to fly....yes 50% or more.

 

of course this makes me wonder how many of most other countries cannot fly....

 

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also if reports are accurate most of our "combat brigades" are not combat ready and able to deploy.

 

---

 

also if reports are accurate accident rates are increasing at an ever increasing rate.

 

 

 

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to put it another way 50 billion will not pay for one new plane,,,ship or brigade....only to repair...fix...spare parts...etc.

which again makes me wonder about how ready other countries are able to deploy and fight

 

Trump just read that Obama wiretapped his phones at Trump Tower. Do you two guys get your information from the same source?

[ldrews]

Trump just read that Obama wiretapped his phones at Trump Tower. Do you two guys get your information from the same source?

 

You did read that the FBI under Obama was issued a FISA warrant for wiretapping the Trump phones, etc., right? Obama says that he did not order it, but it did happen on his watch, so some responsibility must accrue to him, right? As Harry Truman famously said: "The buck stops here!"