Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[ldrews]

Note I didn't ask what you thought were the biggest threats - I only posted the biggest threats Trump's actions thus far prioritized. Trump seems to be totally unconcerned about a threat from Russia.

 

I don't see how or why you believe Trump addressed anything in his campaign other than self-aggrandizement. Perhaps you simply transferred your own views to someone who appeared different but doesn't really share your views and values?

 

I find your view to be so distorted as to be unrecognizable. Since Trump has been in office 4 weeks, with only half of his cabinet approved, I wonder how you can even assess what his actions are according to your list. Could you cite the specific actions (not words please) that align with your views?

[ldrews]

apparently things are not so good in Sweden. http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Lz524/polis-avlossade-varningsskott-mot-stenkastare-i-rinkeby

[Winstonm]

I find your view to be so distorted as to be unrecognizable. Since Trump has been in office 4 weeks, with only half of his cabinet approved, I wonder how you can even assess what his actions are according to your list. Could you cite the specific actions (not words please) that align with your views?

 

His actions thus far are executive actions. You can read them yourself if you don't know what they are. But so far he has bragged about keeping his campaign promises - those promises are my list, not yours.

[Vampyr]

Has Trump's travel ban been reinstated and Wales added to his list of countries? How did anyone even know that Juhel Miah is Muslim? Oh wait, he has brown skin. That is enough to make him undesirable. This is terrifying.

[ldrews]

Has Trump's travel ban been reinstated and Wales added to his list of countries? How did anyone even know that Juhel Miah is Muslim? Oh wait, he has brown skin. That is enough to make him undesirable. This is terrifying.

 

How would you suggest the US cope with terrorism?

[ldrews]

His actions thus far are executive actions. You can read them yourself if you don't know what they are. But so far he has bragged about keeping his campaign promises - those promises are my list, not yours.

 

OK, here are the executive orders as of 2/16/2017:

 

President Donald Trump has spent his first days using his executive authority to rewrite American policy and undo a string of decisions made by former president Barack Obama. Here’s a running list of the new president’s executive actions:

 

1. Providing “relief” from the Affordable Care Act (January 20)

Trump’s first executive order on Inauguration Day involved “minimizing the economic burden” of the Affordable Care Act. This order allows the Secretary of Health and Human Services and the heads of other departments and agencies to waive or delay the implementation of any ACA provisions that would impose a financial burden or any state or a regulatory burden on any individuals.

 

2. Freezing all regulations (January 20)

Trump froze all pending regulations until they are approved directly by his administration or by an agency led by Trump appointees. The action, given in a memorandum from White House chief of staff Reince Priebus, delays all regulations with the exception of health, safety, financial or national security matters allowed by the Office of Management and Budget director.

 

3. Reinstating the “Mexico City” abortion policy (January 23)

The president reinstated the so-called “Mexico City Policy”, which blocks the use of U.S. taxpayer dollars to fund foreign non-governmental organizations that perform or promote abortions. It was established by former president Ronald Reagan and has been rescinded by Democratic presidents and reinstated by Republican presidents ever since.

 

4. Scrapping the Trans-Pacific Partnership (January 23)

Trump’s next executive action withdrew the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which former President Barack Obama negotiated with 11 other pacific nations. The deal was never ratified by the Senate, so it had not gone into effect. Instead, the Trump administration says it plans on negotiating bilateral deals with individual nations.

 

5. Freezing the federal workforce (January 23)

Trump issued a presidential memorandum Tuesday that prohibits government agencies from hiring any new employees, effective as of noon on January 22. The order does not apply to military personnel and the head of any executive department may exempt positions that include national security or public safety responsibilities.

 

6 & 7. Advancing the Dakota Access and Keystone XL Pipelines (January 24)

Trump’s next actions encouraged the construction of two controversial pipelines, the Dakota Access Pipeline and Keystone XL Pipeline. The DAPL action instructs an expedited review and approval of the remaining construction and operation of the pipeline by the Army for Civil Works and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. The Keystone XL action invites TransCanada, the Canadian energy company behind the pipeline, to re-submit its application for a presidential permit to construct the pipeline. It also instructs the Secretary of State to reach a final determination within 60 days.

 

8. Expediting Environmental Reviews on Infrastructure Projects (January 24)

Trump issued an executive order to streamline environmental reviews of high-priority infrastructure projects. The action states that infrastructure projects in the U.S. “have been routinely and excessively delayed by agency processes and procedures.” The action instructs the Chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality to create expedited procedures and deadlines for environmental reviews and approvals for high-priority infrastructure projects.

 

9. Promoting “Made-in-the-USA” pipelines (January 24)

This memorandum instructs the Secretary of Commerce to create a plan for pipelines created, repaired or expanded in the United States to use materials and equipment produced in the country “to the maximum extent possible.” It establishes that all steel and metal used in such pipelines be completely produced in the United States, from the initial melting stage to the application of coatings.

 

10. Reviewing domestic manufacturing regulation (January 24)

Trump issued an action that instructs the Secretary of Commerce to contact stakeholders to review the impact of Federal regulations on domestic manufacturing. After the review, the Secretary of Commerce is instructed to create a streamlined Federal permitting process for domestic manufacturers.

 

11. Increasing border security measures (January 25)

Trump signed an executive order that directed the secretary of homeland security to:

 

Begin planning, designing and constructing a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, including identify available federal funds and working with Congress for additional funding

Construct and operate detention facilities near the border to make adjudicate asylum claims, subject to the availability of existing funding,

Hire 5,000 additional Border Patrol agents, subject to the availability of existing funding,

End “catch and release” policy

Quantify all “sources of direct and indirect Federal aid or assistance to the Government of Mexico on an annual basis over the past five years”

Take action to empower state and local law enforcement to act as immigration officers

 

12. Pursuit of undocumented immigrants (January 25)

Trump signed an executive order that directed the secretary of homeland security to:

 

Prioritize certain undocumented immigrants for removal, including those with criminal convictions and those who have only been charged with a crime

Hire 10,000 additional immigration officers at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, subject to the availability of existing funding,

Prohibit federal funding, with the help of the attorney general, to “sanctuary” jurisdictions, where local officials have declined to help enforce federal immigration laws

Reinstate the Secure Communities program, which was terminated in 2014 and enables state and local law enforcement to effectively act as immigration agents

Sanction countries, with the help of the secretary of state, that refuse to accept the return of undocumented immigrants deported from the U.S.

Create a list, updated weekly, of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants in sanctuary jurisdictions

Create an “Office for Victims of Crimes Committed by Removable Aliens” to “provide proactive, timely, adequate and professional services to victims of crimes committed by removable aliens and family members of such victims”

 

13. Reevaluating visa and refugee programs (January 27)

Trump signed an executive order Friday evening making significant changes to the visa and refugee programs in the United States. It includes:

 

Cuts the number of refugees allowed into the United States in fiscal 2017 from 110,000 to 50,000

Suspends for 120 days the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program, which identifies and processes refugees for resettlement in the United States

Suspends the entry of all “immigrants and nonimmigrants” from Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Syria for 90 days.

Directs the secretary of homeland security, the director of national intelligence and secretary of state to put together a list of countries that do not provide adequate information to vet potential entry of foreign nationals into the United States. Foreign nationals from those countries will be banned from entering the United States.

Directs the secretary of state, the secretary of homeland security, the director of national intelligence, and the director of the FBI to implement uniform screening standards for all immigration programs

Directs the secretary of homeland security, upon the resumption of the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program, to “prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality.”

Directs the secretary of homeland security to implement a biometric entry-exit tracking system

Grants state and local jurisdictions, whenever possible a “role in the process of determining the placement or settlement” of refugees

Suspend the Visa Interview Waiver Program, which allows certain people renewing their visas to skip an in-person interview

Directs the secretary of state to expand the Consular Fellows Program

 

14. Strengthening the military (January 27)

The president on Friday issued a presidential memorandum directing the secretary of defense, James Mattis, to conduct a review on the military’s readiness in the next 30 days and develop a budget for fiscal 2018 capable of improving the “readiness conditions.” He also directed Mattis to complete a National Defense Strategy and to review the country’s nuclear capabilities and missile-defense capabilities

 

15. Reorganizing the National Security Council (January 28)

Trump signed a memorandum Saturday that reorganized the National Security Council, with the goal of making it more digitally-focused, as POLITICO previously reported. Part of the order allows some of the president’s staff, including chief of staff Reince Priebus and White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, to attend any NSC meeting, and widens the ability of appointees close to Trump to attend NSC meetings.

 

16. Implementing a lobbying ban (January 28)

This executive order bars “every executive appointee in every executive agency” from engaging in “lobbying activities with respect to that agency” for five years after leaving the agency. It also bars them permanently from lobbying for any foreign government or political party.

 

17. Defeating ISIS (January 28)

This memorandum instructs Defense Secretary Jim Mattis to create a plan to defeat ISIS and submit it to the president within 30 days. The plan must include a comprehensive strategy for defeating ISIS, changes to the rules of engagement, strategies to de-legitimize “radical Islamist ideology,” a plan for cutting off ISIS’ financial support and identification of new partners for the fight against the terrorist organization.

 

18. Reducing regulations (January 30)

This executive order requires any executive department or agency that proposes a new regulation to identify two regulations to be repealed. For fiscal 2017, it instructs that the total incremental cost of all new regulations and repealed regulations be no greater than zero. For fiscal 2018, the director of the Office of Management and Budget is required to issue for each agency a maximum total cost of all new regulations and repealed regulations for the fiscal year. No agency is allowed to issue a regulation whose costs exceed that maximum, “unless required by law or approved in writing by the Director.”

 

19. Regulating the financial system (February 3)

This executive order lays out a series of principles for regulating the financial system including promoting U.S. corporations’ ability to compete with international companies; to foster economic growth, prevent taxpayer-funded bailouts; and to make regulation efficient. It also instructs the secretary of the treasury to consult with the heads of the member agencies of the Financial Stability Oversight Council and report to the president within 120 days on how current laws and regulations promote those principles.

 

20. Rethinking Obama’s fiduciary standard (February 3)

This memorandum instructs the department of labor to review the Obama administration’s “Fiduciary Rule,” which required financial advisers to serve the best interests of their clients.

 

21. Preventing violence against the police (February 9)

This order instructs Attorney General Jeff Sessions to develop strategies for the Department of Justice to use existing federal laws or recommend new legislation to prosecute individuals who commit crimes against law enforcement officials.

 

22. Creating a task force to reduce crime (February 9)

This executive order instructs Sessions to establish a task force to discuss crime reduction ideas, identify “deficiencies” in current laws and evaluate the availability of crime-related data.

 

23. Combatting transnational criminal organizations (February 9)

This order aims to increase communication and coordination among different agencies relating to international criminal organization and create a strategy to disrupt these organizations. It also directs the Threat Mitigation Working Group to submit a report to the president within 120 days on transnational criminal organizations.

 

Which of these do you think is inappropriate and why?

[mike777]

I don't know where Germany can find billions of euros to boost defense spending

Sigmar Gabriel

[Winstonm]

OK, here are the executive orders as of 2/16/2017:

 

 

 

Which of these do you think is inappropriate and why?

 

What I think is not the issue. You supported this guy and you laid out a list of things you expected this president to accomplish. The question is what in this list of executive orders matches the priorities you enumerated?

 

Secondly, how important do you consider the President of the United States' repeated provable lies and continued attacks against any person, organization, or fact that contradicts his wishes? Is attempting to delegitimize any and all contradiction and even attacking objectivity itself a concern?

[barmar]

From Ryancare: You Can Pay More for Less! Sun Feb 19 by the NYT Editorial Board:

But at least they're not lying and saying "If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan". They're coming flat out and telling you that you're screwed unless you can afford health insurance (hmm, wasn't that the old situation?).

[ldrews]

What I think is not the issue. You supported this guy and you laid out a list of things you expected this president to accomplish. The question is what in this list of executive orders matches the priorities you enumerated?

 

Secondly, how important do you consider the President of the United States' repeated provable lies and continued attacks against any person, organization, or fact that contradicts his wishes? Is attempting to delegitimize any and all contradiction and even attacking objectivity itself a concern?

 

On the contrary, what you think is the issue! You are one of the posters making assertions about how bad Trump is as president. The executive orders are his actions so far. I understand if you want to continue to criticize Trump based on his utterances and avoid addressing his actual actions; you have more justification for your position that way. I prefer to evaluate based on actual actions, but to each his own.

[ldrews]

But at least they're not lying and saying "If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan". They're coming flat out and telling you that you're screwed unless you can afford health insurance (hmm, wasn't that the old situation?).

 

Someone from the government trying to tell the truth! How novel!

 

To quote from the movie: "You can't handle the truth! You don't want to know the truth!"

[Winstonm]

On the contrary, what you think is the issue! You are one of the posters making assertions about how bad Trump is as president. The executive orders are his actions so far. I understand if you want to continue to criticize Trump based on his utterances and avoid addressing his actual actions; you have more justification for your position that way. I prefer to evaluate based on actual actions, but to each his own.

 

His actions amount to this: an executive order found by the judiciary to be too faulty to be used. All else is simply his personal wish list and has no real effect on policy.

 

You have elected a quack and are trying to argue that he is a "faith healer". He ain't.

[Trinidad]

I don't know where Germany can find billions of euros to boost defense spending

Sigmar Gabriel

The comparison in defense spending isn't entirely fair.

 

The defense spending in Europe goes to ... guess what ... defense.

The defense spending in the USA goes to ... defense, the defense industry, military R&D, not so military R&D, not so military - not R&D, hidden unemployment, education.

 

When I was doing my PhD in the USA, about 10% of the grad students in my department were there on a DoD project. Part of the staff were fully funded by the DoD. There was little military about those projects, other than that all the research would potentially be useful for defense. But it would also be useful to the automotive industry or to silicon valley, or ... In Europe these projects would have been funded by industry, the economy/energy department or, most likely, the science department. (The US government doesn't even have a science department. The DoE has an Office of Science.)

 

In a similar way, American students use the ROTC to help pay for college. In Europe, the department of education takes care of that.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think the US DoD should stop funding research or education. But these dollars are labeled as "defense money" whereas the equivalent euros are not. If they would also be labeled "defense money", the numbers would look different.

 

In addition, the USA should keep in mind that the wars in the 21st century that the USA has been fighting (Afghanistan, Iraq) were started by the USA... against the advice from their European NATO partners. Nevertheless, these same NATO partners have been fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq alongside the USA for the good of the alliance. Many European NATO soldiers have died in the Middle East in what were -in essence- American wars. The European NATO countries have not been complaining to the USA for ignoring their opinions and getting them involved in a war. Instead, they have been loyal NATO members and paid the price, even if they could have said no (since these were not article 5 situations).

 

Currently, NATO members are active in Syria and Iraq (and on various UN missions). As an example: probably it is not known to the American public that a significant portion (I believe 50%) of the Dutch fighter jets are deployed in Syria and Iraq, alongside the US. (The remaining part is taking turns defending the Baltic states and Poland against the Russians.) I can understand that it isn't really visible in the USA if a country about the size of Maryland sends half of their fighter jets to fight alongside Americans, but in The Netherlands, this is felt. How do you think we feel about Trump's demonstration of commitment to NATO?

 

Just my, slightly different, perspective on these things. Thanks for reading.

 

Rik

[ldrews]

His actions amount to this: an executive order found by the judiciary to be too faulty to be used. All else is simply his personal wish list and has no real effect on policy.

 

You have elected a quack and are trying to argue that he is a "faith healer". He ain't.

 

I am not arguing anything, you are. I simply asked if any of his executive orders is inappropriate. I assert that his executive orders so far are in alignment with his campaign promises. Do you disagree?

 

You are correct, 1 out of all of his executive orders has been challenged by the lower courts. Apparently he is revising that executive order to be more in compliance.

 

So, if all else is simply his personal wish list and has no real effect on policy, then you must have no objections to them, right?

[hrothgar]

So, if all else is simply his personal wish list and has no real effect on policy, then you must have no objections to them, right?

 

Shouting fire in a crowded theatre has no real effect on policy either...

[Winstonm]

I am not arguing anything, you are. I simply asked if any of his executive orders is inappropriate. I assert that his executive orders so far are in alignment with his campaign promises. Do you disagree?

 

You are correct, 1 out of all of his executive orders has been challenged by the lower courts. Apparently he is revising that executive order to be more in compliance.

 

So, if all else is simply his personal wish list and has no real effect on policy, then you must have no objections to them, right?

 

Let's make this clear. Here is your list:

If Trump does not make progress on the following (not necessarily all of them) then I would indeed no longer support him.

 

Significant reduction in military presence around the world

Renunciation of being the policeman for the world

Significant improvement of opportunities for the middle/working class

Significant improvement in the plight of inner cities

Significant improvement in control of our borders

Significant improvement in our educational system

 

You have yet to answer the basic question: what has Trump done thus far that makes you think his priorities match yours?

[ldrews]

Shouting fire in a crowded theatre has no real effect on policy either...

 

I am sorry, I do not understand your message. Could you expand on it, please?

[hrothgar]

I am sorry, I do not understand your message. Could you expand on it, please?

 

Seriously?

[ldrews]

Seriously?

 

Seriously.

[mike777]

The comparison in defense spending isn't entirely fair.

 

The defense spending in Europe goes to ... guess what ... defense.

The defense spending in the USA goes to ... defense, the defense industry, military R&D, not so military R&D, not so military - not R&D, hidden unemployment, education.

 

When I was doing my PhD in the USA, about 10% of the grad students in my department were there on a DoD project. Part of the staff were fully funded by the DoD. There was little military about those projects, other than that all the research would potentially be useful for defense. But it would also be useful to the automotive industry or to silicon valley, or ... In Europe these projects would have been funded by industry, the economy/energy department or, most likely, the science department. (The US government doesn't even have a science department. The DoE has an Office of Science.)

 

In a similar way, American students use the ROTC to help pay for college. In Europe, the department of education takes care of that.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think the US DoD should stop funding research or education. But these dollars are labeled as "defense money" whereas the equivalent euros are not. If they would also be labeled "defense money", the numbers would look different.

 

In addition, the USA should keep in mind that the wars in the 21st century that the USA has been fighting (Afghanistan, Iraq) were started by the USA... against the advice from their European NATO partners. Nevertheless, these same NATO partners have been fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq alongside the USA for the good of the alliance. Many European NATO soldiers have died in the Middle East in what were -in essence- American wars. The European NATO countries have not been complaining to the USA for ignoring their opinions and getting them involved in a war. Instead, they have been loyal NATO members and paid the price, even if they could have said no (since these were not article 5 situations).

 

Currently, NATO members are active in Syria and Iraq (and on various UN missions). As an example: probably it is not known to the American public that a significant portion (I believe 50%) of the Dutch fighter jets are deployed in Syria and Iraq, alongside the US. (The remaining part is taking turns defending the Baltic states and Poland against the Russians.) I can understand that it isn't really visible in the USA if a country about the size of Maryland sends half of their fighter jets to fight alongside Americans, but in The Netherlands, this is felt. How do you think we feel about Trump's demonstration of commitment to NATO?

 

Just my, slightly different, perspective on these things. Thanks for reading.

 

Rik

 

Rik I don't recall making any comparisons, you make the comparisons.

 

What I do see at least in Germany is a lack of military capability and an unwillness to pay for it, pay for it in terms of will, euros, and trained fighting manpower.

One example is that as of 2014 Germany by some reports had only ten attack helicopters and one submarine.

But please don't take it as my perspective, read Sigmar Gabriel.

 

As for the Netherlands I expect you could discuss their willingness to spend on increasing their military capability far better than myself.

 

=================================

 

 

As far as your question regarding Trump and Nato my best response to describe Trump would be:

 

There are no truths; reality is negotiable

(Derrida)

[hrothgar]

Seriously.

 

"Crying fire in a crowded theatre" is the classic example regarding limits to free speech.

 

People's freedom of expression is limited because there is a very real danger that individuals would harm themselves and others rushing towards the exit trying to escape a non-existent fire.

On a more general level, this is an example where the very use of language has the potential to have a material impact on the world.

 

In your original post, you suggested that President's Trump's executive orders had no impact on policy and therefore could be discounted.

 

I am suggesting that even if these EOs do not directly impact US policies, the way that they are perceived in the world gives them meaning.

[ldrews]

"Crying fire in a crowded theatre" is the classic example regarding limits to free speech.

 

People's freedom of expression is limited because there is a very real danger that individuals would harm themselves and others rushing towards the exit trying to escape a non-existent fire.

On a more general level, this is an example where the very use of language has the potential to have a material impact on the world.

 

In your original post, you suggested that President's Trump's executive orders had no impact on policy and therefore could be discounted.

 

I am suggesting that even if these EOs do not directly impact US policies, the way that they are perceived in the world gives them meaning.

 

I was not the one that said the EOs do not have an impact, that was Winstonm. I was just using his position to verify that since he feels they have no impact, that then he has no objection to them.

[ldrews]

Let's make this clear. Here is your list:

 

 

You have yet to answer the basic question: what has Trump done thus far that makes you think his priorities match yours?

 

I am sorry, I did not realize you have limited reading/comprehension. If you actually read the EOa you will find several that address reduced regulation (thereby improving small business' ability to start or expand), renegotiating trade agreements (thereby retaining/increasing US jobs), and immigration/border control.

 

Try reading them again and ask if you have questions.

[mike777]

I am sorry, I did not realize you have limited reading/comprehension. If you actually read the EOa you will find several that address reduced regulation (thereby improving small business' ability to start or expand), renegotiating trade agreements (thereby retaining/increasing US jobs), and immigration/border control.

 

Try reading them again and ask if you have questions.

 

 

Regarding Trump and immigration/border control I would hope to see Trump liberally :) use his pardon power while he talks tough to make his base happy.

Some might call it GRACE or underserved forgiveness. I believe it would make his overall policy more effective, more productive.

[ldrews]

Regarding Trump and immigration/border control I would hope to see Trump liberally :) use his pardon power while he talks tough to make his base happy.

Some might call it GRACE or underserved forgiveness. I believe it would make his overall policy more effective, more productive.

 

I agree. There are better and worse ways to implement policy. I hope we get the better.