Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[mikeh]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-04/meet-awan-brothers-not-russian-it-staff-who-allegedly-hacked-congress-computer-syste

 

The Awan brothers hacked the computers, not the Russians.

Have you ever studied logic, in any way at all?

 

Let's see if we can sum up what passes for reasoning for you.

 

1. WikiLeaks releases thousands of emails said to have been hacked from the DNC computers

 

2. The entire US Intelligence community investigates and concludes that the Russians were behind the hacking that led to WikiLeaks having the DNC emails

 

3. Civilian IT employees working for Congress are fired for making numerous unauthorized intrusions into multiple congressional computer accounts and for physically stealing equipment.

 

4. It fits your biases to assert, based on the above, that the fired IT workers weren't just run-of-the-mill crooks but were instead the people who hacked the DNC and provided the results to WikiLeaks. So you make that assertion.

 

 

It's like investigating a bank robbery, where the police have video of the get-away vehicle, and descriptions of the robbers and have put out a bulletin naming the suspects and then we learn that a day later, across town, some different people robbed a convenience store. You'd have as much basis for asserting that those convenience store robbers were the bank robbers as you do for asserting that the Awan brothers hacked the DNC.

 

But, as you have so often demonstrated, critical thinking is not your strong suit. Not sure what is, but we know what isn't.

[Winstonm]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-04/meet-awan-brothers-not-russian-it-staff-who-allegedly-hacked-congress-computer-syste

 

The Awan brothers hacked the computers, not the Russians.

 

As a suggestion, you might consider instead of trying to validate a belief to look for valid information that allows you to validate or invalidate the proposition you assume to be true.

 

This is pretty much the tack I took with your claims about California illegal voters, an issue I note you have since abandoned. Nevertheless, I persist in my attempt to look for reliable information that either satisfies as proof or disproves my own positions. Note I did not simply challenge your assumptions but went to the source - the California state websites - to help determine if your assertions had merit. If they did, I would be willing to change my mind. What I found showed your analysis to be wrong. There is no reason to suspect widespread voter fraud in California from illegal immigrants.

 

Your link does not meet criteria. Zerohedge.com is not a reliable source of information. But if your goal is simply to re-enforce your own beliefs then by all means continue your present course. If not, then you will have to dig deeper.

 

It says a lot about your bias, does it not, to try to invalidate the findings of the entire U.S. intelligence community by quoting an internet website run by 3 guys who won't even share their names?

 

Perhaps next you can tell us about the Polish invasion of Belarus.

[Winstonm]

While watching the WH briefing, it struck me how defensive and confrontational was the tone of the exchanges. It reminded me greatly of the Nixon WH toward the end of his presidency.

[mike777]

Looks as if Cory Booker of Jersey is running for President.

Expect to see him popping up more on tv attacking Trump.

Expect to see him take a much more pro teachers union position from once was a strong charter school advocate.

[hrothgar]

As a suggestion, you might consider instead of trying to validate a belief to look for valid information that allows you to validate or invalidate the proposition you assume to be true.

 

Both you and MikeH are making the mistake that jogs is trying engaging in a traditional debate.

 

He's not. He's doing a classic gish gallop.

 

He throws out a bullshit claim.

You waste time refuting it.

Jogs turns around and throws out another bullshit claim on a complete different topic.

 

Looks at the last five things that he has claimed

 

1. "The Awan brothers hacked the computers, not the Russians. "

2. "So why is Bercow silent when thousands of English young women have been raped by Pakistanic Muslims? Also why has the British media shoved this story under the rug? "

3. "Illegal immigrants do have 'valid' social security cards."

4. "Aside from Fox News all TV and print media is left-wing in America."

5. "Clinton won California by 3.4 million. Over 3 million illegals have driver's license. No proof of citizenship is needed to register to vote in California."

 

This is not a sane mind, nor is it an individual the one can reason with.

Stop pretending that he is and stop treating him with any respect...

[mike777]

http://www.vox.com/2017/2/7/14525106/british-parliament-trump-visit

 

House of Commons Speaker John Bercow has labelled Trump a racist and sexist.

So why is Bercow silent when thousands of English young women have been raped by Pakistanic Muslims? Also why has the British media shoved this story under the rug?

 

Regarding the media shoving the story under the rug. The really big scandal, ongoing scandal around the world including Europe, Asia and the USA is the lack of prosecutions and jail time for the men raping young children.

 

You read about the pimps getting arrested but seldom about the customers getting jail time.

 

--------------------------------

 

"As for the other reference, do you mean Rotherham, where up to 1400 children were exploited resulting in the conviction of 8 men for child sex abuse in a well-publicised trial, along with 2 others in a previous case. That was obviously a dark episode and the police reaction was, to the say the least, poor......."

 

 

hmmm how many customers went to jail for 1400 children???

[Winstonm]

Both you and MikeH are making the mistake that jogs is trying engaging in a traditional debate.

 

He's not. He's doing a classic gish gallop.

 

He throws out a bullshit claim.

You waste time refuting it.

Jogs turns around and throws out another bullshit claim on a complete different topic.

 

Looks at the last five things that he has claimed

 

1. "The Awan brothers hacked the computers, not the Russians. "

2. "So why is Bercow silent when thousands of English young women have been raped by Pakistanic Muslims? Also why has the British media shoved this story under the rug? "

3. "Illegal immigrants do have 'valid' social security cards."

4. "Aside from Fox News all TV and print media is left-wing in America."

5. "Clinton won California by 3.4 million. Over 3 million illegals have driver's license. No proof of citizenship is needed to register to vote in California."

 

This is not a sane mind, nor is it an individual the one can reason with.

Stop pretending that he is and stop treating him with any respect...

 

I thought he was auditioning for Kellyann Conway's job. B-)

[MrAce]

Richard nailed it!

 

That guy is dropping piles of BS and does not even read the replies to it. He just drops another one.

But I am kinda happy that you guys keeping him busy in WC, because his comments about bridge topics are even worse.http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

[helene_t]

his comments about bridge topics are even worse.

Not to mention his comments about statistics, lol. I have had him on ignore from long time before he started writing about politics.

[hrothgar]

Not to mention his comments about statistics, lol. I have had him on ignore from long time before he started writing about politics.

 

I must have suppressed his contributions in this area...

 

Can you point some of them out?

[helene_t]

I must have suppressed his contributions in this area...

 

Can you point some of them out?

He apparently confuses knowledge of statistics with the ability to enter formulas into excel, so if you google jogs excel site:bridgebase.com you will get a long list, I am sure you remember some of them.

[diana_eva]

He apparently confuses knowledge of statistics with the ability to enter formulas into excel, so if you google jogs excel site:bridgebase.com you will get a long list, I am sure you remember some of them.

 

Ah, what fun memories...

 

You only need a complete understanding of algebra, that's it.

[Winstonm]

Oh, I see. We thought they were deplorables.

 

PublicPolicyPolling ✔ @ppppolls

By 51/23 margin, Trump voters say the Bowling Green Massacre shows why his Executive Order on immigration is needed: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/02/americans-now-evenly-divided-on-impeaching-trump.html …

8:01 AM - 10 Feb 2017

 

Turns out, they really are just idiots.

[PassedOut]

Because Trump reads no books, it is understandable that he is impressed by a character who reads a lot: Steve Bannon Cited Italian Thinker Who Inspired Fascists

 

ROME — Those trying to divine the roots of Stephen K. Bannon’s dark and at times apocalyptic worldview have repeatedly combed over a speech that Mr. Bannon, President Trump’s ideological guru, made in 2014 to a Vatican conference, where he expounded on Islam, populism and capitalism.

 

But for all the examination of those remarks, a passing reference by Mr. Bannon to an esoteric Italian philosopher has gone little noticed, except perhaps by scholars and followers of the deeply taboo, Nazi-affiliated thinker, Julius Evola.

 

“The fact that Bannon even knows Evola is significant,” said Mark Sedgwick, a leading scholar of Traditionalists at Aarhus University in Denmark.

 

Evola, who died in 1974, wrote on everything from Eastern religions to the metaphysics of sex to alchemy. But he is best known as a leading proponent of Traditionalism, a worldview popular in far-right and alternative religious circles that believes progress and equality are poisonous illusions.

 

Evola became a darling of Italian Fascists, and Italy’s post-Fascist terrorists of the 1960s and 1970s looked to him as a spiritual and intellectual godfather.

 

They called themselves Children of the Sun after Evola’s vision of a bourgeoisie-smashing new order that he called the Solar Civilization. Today, the Greek neo-Nazi party Golden Dawn includes his works on its suggested reading list, and the leader of Jobbik, the Hungarian nationalist party, admires Evola and wrote an introduction to his works.

 

More important for the current American administration, Evola also caught on in the United States with leaders of the alt-right movement, which Mr. Bannon nurtured as the head of Breitbart News and then helped harness for Mr. Trump.

 

“Julius Evola is one of the most fascinating men of the 20th century,” said Richard Spencer, the white nationalist leader who is a top figure in the alt-right movement, which has attracted white supremacists, racists and anti-immigrant elements.

 

In the days after the election, Mr. Spencer led a Washington alt-right conference in chants of “Hail Trump!” But he also invoked Evola’s idea of a prehistoric and pre-Christian spirituality — referring to the awakening of whites, whom he called the Children of the Sun.

Of course reading is not the same as agreeing, but Bannon's the connection with the alt-right suggests that something is going on there. That, and his tendency to wear a monocle on formal occasions...

B-)

[barmar]

Oh, I see. We thought they were deplorables.

...

Turns out, they really are just idiots.

The problem is that they drink the Kool-Aid, and believe all the BS coming out of Sean Spicer's and Kellyane Conway's mouths. She said the Bowling Green Massacre is a reason, that's good enough for them.

 

Does Bannon think that he can re-mold America to his vision by getting Trump to institute all his policies?

 

One problem we have is that there's no provision in the Constitution to remove a President other than impeachment, which requires that he commit a "high crime or misdemeanor". Maybe the next 4 years will prompt amending the Constitution to provide for recall elections (although most states don't allow recalls of their officials, either -- only 19 do).

[Vampyr]

The problem is that they drink the Kool-Aid, and believe all the BS coming out of Sean Spicer's and Kellyane Conway's mouths. She said the Bowling Green Massacre is a reason, that's good enough for them.

 

Does Bannon think that he can re-mold America to his vision by getting Trump to institute all his policies?

 

One problem we have is that there's no provision in the Constitution to remove a President other than impeachment, which requires that he commit a "high crime or misdemeanor". Maybe the next 4 years will prompt amending the Constitution to provide for recall elections (although most states don't allow recalls of their officials, either -- only 19 do).

 

Well, there is the 25th amendment, but I guess that requires that the President be physically incapable of performing his job. Is he physically incapable if he spends too much time tweeting about people who have hurt his feelings? Maybe.

 

But impeachment over Trump University is a possibility.

[Trinidad]

He apparently confuses knowledge of statistics with the ability to enter formulas into excel, so if you google jogs excel site:bridgebase.com you will get a long list, I am sure you remember some of them.

Thanks for the memories. They don't make comedy like this anymore!

 

Rik

[barmar]

Well, there is the 25th amendment, but I guess that requires that the President be physically incapable of performing his job. Is he physically incapable if he spends too much time tweeting about people who have hurt his feelings? Maybe.

We wish. :)

But impeachment over Trump University is a possibility.

If anything, it will probably be the emoluments clause.

 

I wonder how many "Word of the Year" lists "emoluments" will end up on this year. Before Trump, this word was practically never used (Google Ngrams shows that its use has been steadily declining for centuries, so it was more common when the Constitution was written), now everyone has heard it.

[hrothgar]

Well, there is the 25th amendment, but I guess that requires that the President be physically incapable of performing his job. Is he physically incapable if he spends too much time tweeting about people who have hurt his feelings? Maybe.

 

But impeachment over Trump University is a possibility.

 

Its so cute the way that people believe that impeachment has anything to do with laws or anything like that...

 

Trump will be impeached just as soon as he is no longer useful to the house republicans...

Who cares what the actual charges are...

 

However, for now he's their ablative armor...

[Winstonm]

These are rather remarkable numbers:

 

Greg Price

International Business Times

February 10, 2017

 

Americans were split on impeaching President Donald Trump, with a majority preferring to have Barack Obama back in the White House. A plurality would even prefer election loser Hillary Clinton over the embattled billionaire and mogul less than a month into the administration, a new Public Policy Polling (PPP) survey released Friday showed.

 

The new national data showed a major increase in Trump’s disapproval rating while 46 percent are for impeaching the 45th president and the same percentage are against the extreme measure. PPP’s first poll showed 44 percent both approved and disapproved of Trump, but now his approval rating has slipped to 43 percent and disapproval has reached 53 percent.

 

Two weeks ago only 35 percent were for impeaching Trump.

 

In turn, 52 percent of those polled would rather have Obama back in the Oval Office, compared to 44 percent who don’t. Forty-nine percent would rather have Clinton at the helm of the executive branch. At first, only 65 percent of Clinton voters were for impeaching Trump but that figure has since climbed to a commanding 83 percent.

 

A big problem with impeachment of Trump is a Pence presidency with god-knows-who as VP.

[Vampyr]

A big problem with impeachment of Trump is a Pence presidency with god-knows-who as VP.

 

Yes, the Donald will not, it seems, succeed in doing much of what he wants. President Pence would merely have to dial down the crazy a little bit to seem reasonable.

[kenberg]

Its so cute the way that people believe that impeachment has anything to do with laws or anything like that...

 

Trump will be impeached just as soon as he is no longer useful to the house republicans...

Who cares what the actual charges are...

 

However, for now he's their ablative armor...

 

It has been a long time since anyone has described me as cute. I find any discussion along the lines of "Let's get the votes and impeach him" to be truly repulsive. The proper sequence is first the impeachee performs an act that, constitutionally, requires impeachment. Then, reluctantly, we impeach. This view is totally independent of how I view the politics of the person in question. And it is independent of any bad choices made by others in the past. Call me cute or anything else, I won't be changing my mind on this.

[helene_t]

It has been a long time since anyone has described me as cute. I find any discussion along the lines of "Let's get the votes and impeach him" to be truly repulsive. The proper sequence is first the impeachee performs an act that, constitutionally, requires impeachment. Then, reluctantly, we impeach. This view is totally independent of how I view the politics of the person in question. And it is independent of any bad choices made by others in the past. Call me cute or anything else, I won't be changing my mind on this.

But I don't think it makes you cute to believe that impeachment ought to be based on legal (not political) arguments.

[awm]

Trump's use of the office to enrich himself and his family leads pretty easily to constitutional violations. His embrace of Russia (both during and after the election) is arguably treasonous. His order that US green card holders be detained without cause at airports and initial defiance of court orders barring this practice is also arguably illegal.

 

I don't think it would be hard to come up with legal justification to impeach, certainly much better justification than the last impeachment (Clinton cheated on his wife and then lied about it under oath).

 

This is not to say that impeachment will happen -- it likely has far more to do with his degree of unpopularity and how the Republicans feel they can best achieve their goals of cutting taxes and shredding the social and regulatory safety nets.

[mike777]

Strange as it sounds I WOULD BE surprised if republicans shred the safety net. In fact I would be willing to bet they will spend more not less over the next 4 years. The debate will be how democrats feel it is still far too little. keep in mind trump is for big government, more spending...not less.

 

In the townhall meeting on cnn from Chicago the message was for more and more resources, money, were needed on the south side ...

 

 

As for the impeachment discussion I agree with the posters who correctly suggest the actual path will be step one is you want to impeach him...step two is find some crime.....you just need to convince a tiny tiny number of republicans...less than 100...not millions.