Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[jogs]

I don't get it. You understand this yet you support a wealthy capitalist who want to reduce taxes even further on the rich and skew the income distribution even more. What gives?

 

That's because you have never been willing to read the views of others who don't follow the hard progressive left line.

 

I favor eliminating or limiting most deductions(on income taxes). Buffett pays only 16-18% taxes on his income. He should be paying closer to 35%. Trump favors eliminating accrued interest. Maybe on any given year there should be a cap on total deductions. This cap may be $500,000 or $1 million. I love inverse tiered pricing for most utilities. Public transportation should be free. There are many ways to help the poor or working poor without increasing their wages.

[Winstonm]

That's because you have never been willing to read the views of others who don't follow the hard progressive left line.

 

I favor eliminating or limiting most deductions(on income taxes). Buffett pays only 16-18% taxes on his income. He should be paying closer to 35%. Trump favors eliminating accrued interest. Maybe on any given year there should be a cap on total deductions. This cap may be $500,000 or $1 million. I love inverse tiered pricing for most utilities. Public transportation should be free. There are many ways to help the poor or working poor without increasing their wages.

 

That still doesn't explain your support for the demagogue Trump.

[kenberg]

I was lucky enough to grow up in a family with two parents, both of whom were actively engaged with me, read to me every life, and instilled a life long love of learning.

 

I am guessing that educating me to some basic level of academic proficiency would be a HELL of a lot cheaper than trying to do the same for a kid who had a single parent working a minimum wage job who didn't have the time or the energy to provide the same benefits to their children.

 

The entire notion that it is going to cost the same to educate kids in communities that have been devastated by years of neglect is absolutely ridiculous.

 

And, once more, when you are doing comparisons across counties you need to factor in issues like how much of that money is being spent of school lunches, guidance and heath, and other such welfare programs.

 

You might or might not be surprised to hear that I agree, or at least largely agree, with this. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that some of the posts were suggesting that if we could simply equalize funding we would be well on the way to solving the problem. I think a much broader and very open minded view is needed.

 

Your first sentence carries a serious challenge. Some families do not project a love of learning. True enough. Also some teachers don't. My own experiences make this undeniable. Providing an environment that offers choices is a challenge. Not all will make the choices that we might hope for, but choices should be there. I long ago suggested, perhaps more metaphorically than literally, that kids in adverse circumstances should be issued a bicycle, and it should be a capital offense to steal it from him. The idea is for a kid to see that there are options other than those that are directly in front of him.

 

I also regard my own childhood as lucky. I was given great opportunity to explore. I don't mean a trip to Europe, I mean a chance to get out on my bike and see what I liked and what I didn't like.

 

Some kids are from circumstances that are very difficult to overcome. Schools cannot do it all, much will depend on the choices a young person makes. But some good choices should be available. And guidance. And a decent breakfast.

[y66]

Peter Thiel, the Silicon Valley billionaire, channeling my favorite mad scientist of bridge, explains his admiration for Donald J. Trump. [NYT Opinion]

 

I ask him if Mr. Trump and Mr. Musk are similar.

 

“I’m going to get in trouble, but they are, actually. They’re both grandmaster-level salespeople and these very much larger-than-life figures.”

 

He recalls a story from his and Mr. Musk’s PayPal days, when Mr. Musk joined the engineering team’s poker game and bet everything on every hand, admitting only afterward that it was his first time playing poker. Then there was the time they were driving in Mr. Musk’s McLaren F1 car, “the fastest car in the world.” It hit an embankment, achieved liftoff, made a 360-degree horizontal turn, crashed and was destroyed.

 

“It was a miracle neither of us were hurt,” Mr. Thiel says. “I wasn’t wearing a seatbelt, which is not advisable. Elon’s first comment was, ‘Wow, Peter, that was really intense.’ And then it was: ‘You know, I had read all these stories about people who made money and bought sports cars and crashed them. But I knew it would never happen to me, so I didn’t get any insurance.’ And then we hitchhiked the rest of the way to the meeting.”

Good read. Smart guy. Definitely more optimistic and tolerant of risk than I am. I will concede that Trump is less scary and more real in some ways than many of his rivals but I'm not for taking the whole country for a spin with Trump at the wheel even if this is the shortest path to the future Theil believes in.

[kenberg]

Peter Thiel, the Silicon Valley billionaire, channeling my favorite mad scientist of bridge, explains his admiration for Donald J. Trump. [NYT Opinion]

 

 

Good read. Smart guy. Definitely more optimistic and tolerant of risk than I am. I will concede that Trump is less scary and more real in some ways than many of his rivals but I'm not for taking the whole country for a spin with Trump at the wheel even if this is the shortest path to the future Theil believes in.

 

This is a great article. I particularly liked the extensive comparison of Trump with Hulk Hogan. It seems more than a little accurate. We are embarking on a strange journey.

 

 

The academic in me notes a typo; It's "Do not go gentle into than good night." "gentle", not "gently". Which of course is really just an excuse to link to the poem:

https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/do-not-go-gentle-good-night

[kenberg]

I have a question. The hacking of the DNC. I realized that I don't really know just what was released as a result of the hacking. The DNC favored Clinton over Sanders and acted on this favoritism.

 

Never mind for a moment all the controversy over Putin/Assange coordination. And skip the fake news stuff for the moment. I am trying to straighten out my head as to just what was revealed by the hacking. Podesta said something stupid, I don't recall what, about the Pope.

 

I have thought from the beginning that the most important thing is that the Russians were able to do it. Regardless of what they got, that's not good. But I realized that I did not really know just what it was that they got. The biggest item was the favoritism toward Clinton over Sanders, is that right?

[Elianna]

You might or might not be surprised to hear that I agree, or at least largely agree, with this. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that some of the posts were suggesting that if we could simply equalize funding we would be well on the way to solving the problem. I think a much broader and very open minded view is needed.

 

...

 

Some kids are from circumstances that are very difficult to overcome. Schools cannot do it all, much will depend on the choices a young person makes. But some good choices should be available. And guidance. And a decent breakfast.

 

My point wasn't that if schools were funded equally everything would be sunshine and roses. It was that IF funding equally was the goal, then relying ONLY on property taxes of the area of the school is ridiculous. I also wanted to refute the claim that all that is needed to equalize funding of schools is for poor areas to raise property taxes and show why that won't work.

 

From your table it seems that the state of MD supplements per student to attempt to bring all counties up to some level, but does not attempt to equalize. CA does the same (although it operates on a per district rather than per county basis) but our minimum is lower than yours. According to the state of CA for '16-'17 it is about 10,600, but I really thought it was $9,000 because the district is supposed to pay us the minimum per student and that's what we get so perhaps those numbers are different for different grade levels? But anyway, it's still about $2200 less than your lowest county.

[Zelandakh]

Sometimes wiki can be a decent source Ken... B-)

[ldrews]

hrothgar,

 

Do you agree that, as matters currently stand, education is a matter for the states per the current Constitution of the United States? That since it is not an enumerated Federal responsibility, that education is reserved for the states?

 

That, therefore, to implement federal funding of education would require an amendment to the Constitution of the United States?

[hrothgar]

hrothgar,

 

Do you agree that, as matters currently stand, education is a matter for the states per the current Constitution of the United States? That since it is not an enumerated Federal responsibility, that education is reserved for the states?

 

That, therefore, to implement federal funding of education would require an amendment to the Constitution of the United States?

 

No

 

(And given that the Federal government provides about 10% of funding for K-12 education, I think that my beliefs are pretty well grounded)

[ldrews]

From Wikipedia:

 

The United States spends more per student on education than any other country.[8] In 2014, the Pearson/Economist Intelligence Unit rated US education as 14th best in the world, just behind Russia.[9] According to a report published by the U.S. News & World Report, of the top ten colleges and universities in the world, eight are American.[10] (The other two are Oxford and Cambridge, in the United Kingdom.)

[Zelandakh]

Do you agree that, <...>

Do you agree that every child in is entitled to an equal level of education (under the 14th) and that funding is a critical indicator of whether such equality exists?

[kenberg]

My point wasn't that if schools were funded equally everything would be sunshine and roses. It was that IF funding equally was the goal, then relying ONLY on property taxes of the area of the school is ridiculous. I also wanted to refute the claim that all that is needed to equalize funding of schools is for poor areas to raise property taxes and show why that won't work.

 

From your table it seems that the state of MD supplements per student to attempt to bring all counties up to some level, but does not attempt to equalize. CA does the same (although it operates on a per district rather than per county basis) but our minimum is lower than yours. According to the state of CA for '16-'17 it is about 10,600, but I really thought it was $9,000 because the district is supposed to pay us the minimum per student and that's what we get so perhaps those numbers are different for different grade levels? But anyway, it's still about $2200 less than your lowest county.

 

When I was in high school during the first Eisenhower term there was a very active debate about federal funding for education. I don't recall who was on which side, but I have a "this is where I came in" feeling. The biggest issue was whether federal funding was consistent with local control. Probably that is still a big issue. Anther issue is fairness, or perceived fairness. It would be nice if a county would do what they reasonably can, and then the state/feds would add to that to equalize the result or even provide extra for those districts with a lare number of disadvantaged students. But I would guess, and it is just a guess, that if one made a table of county wealth and ran a correlation with educational support from the county, the result would be positive but not all that large. If the state will make up the difference, there is a strong tendency to say "fine, let them".

 

I guess if the problem were easy to solve, we wouldn't still be looking at the same puzzle we looked at when I was an adolescent.

[Zelandakh]

When I was in high school during the first Eisenhower term there was a very active debate about federal funding for education.

One of the landmark cases in American education history took place in 1954 so it is not as all surprising that this was a topical subject at that time.

[Zelandakh]

Sadly much of the positive effect of that ruling was undone 19-20 years later in the other critical SC case in this area. It is probably that the US education system would look considerably different today if this decision had gone the other way and almost certain that the overall results would be much better today in that case.

[jogs]

I'm anti-progressive left. Am pro free markets, anti socialism. We are given a binary choice. I'm not allowed to vote for John Stossel. So it's for Hillary or against Hillary.

Both Obama and Hillary disparage Americans, while praising Muslims. Half of Muslims in America believe in Sharia Law. Sharia is a set of moral codes which practices human right abuses.

Therefore I think the democratic party took a wrong turn this century.

[Zelandakh]

Half of Muslims in America believe in Sharia Law. Sharia is a set of moral codes which practices human right abuses.

Therefore I think the democratic party took a wrong turn this century.

You seriously based your vote for one of the most important decisions you will make for a while on a perception of less than 0.5% of the population? And that is without knowing the

.

[hrothgar]

Both Obama and Hillary disparage Americans, while praising Muslims.

 

This may strain your world view, but in many cases Americans deserve to be disparaged and there are muslims who deserve praise.

More over, the sets "Americans' and "Muslims" are not mutually exclusive.

 

The fact that that your world view collapses down to this inane Manichaeism tells me more more than I need to know about your odious little excuse for a brain.

 

(BTW, given the idiocy of the first half of the posting, we could have guessed Libertarian and Fox Business viewer)

[Winstonm]

libertarian=disgruntled ex-government employee :P

[Winstonm]

I'm anti-progressive left. Am pro free markets, anti socialism. We are given a binary choice. I'm not allowed to vote for John Stossel. So it's for Hillary or against Hillary.

Both Obama and Hillary disparage Americans, while praising Muslims. Half of Muslims in America believe in Sharia Law. Sharia is a set of moral codes which practices human right abuses.

Therefore I think the democratic party took a wrong turn this century.

 

O.K., you've described a fear of socialism and a fear of Muslims - what other fears drive your decision-making processes?

[olegru]

Do you agree that every child in is entitled to an equal level of education (under the 14th)

 

No. Every child under the age of 14th is entitled to an opportunity to get education not worse that some level.

Nobody is entitle to limit possibility of education of other children in order to maintain "equal level of education" for everybody.

[kenberg]

One of the landmark cases in American education history took place in 1954 so it is not as all surprising that this was a topical subject at that time.

 

This connection had not occurred to me but no doubt the Brown decision played a role in the discussion of how to fund education. I was aware of Brown, of course, but for St. Paul in 1954 it was a distant event so I did not make a connection then to the discussion about funding, and laer I didn't think back about it. I think I was vaguely, but only vaguely, aware of the Rodriguez case when it happened.

 

It seems to me that the right answer to Rodriguez is this: Even if it is within the Constitution to underfund schools, it's a really bad idea. Bad for everyone. Really bad for everyone. It seems to me this is where we have missed the boat. Arguing about the right to an education can get into abstraction. But the benefit to the country of having our kids well-educated seems not at all abstract, it's totally obvious.

 

But not to everyone. Some years back I was down by a lake and there was a political event. I was just there for the lake, but might as well speak up. The campaign manager for a candidate for governor was there so I introduced myself and said that I wanted to talk about educational funding, both generally and for the University of Maryland. I'm from the University? Great. He wanted to talk about the basketball team.

[Zelandakh]

No. Every child under the age of 14th is entitled to an opportunity to get education not worse that some level.

Nobody is entitle to limit possibility of education of other children in order to maintain "equal level of education" for everybody.

The 14th is an amendment. You might like to read it to understand the point.

[olegru]

Well, your point is still wrong, and nothing in 14th Amendment confirms it :)

 

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

Section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

 

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

Section 5.

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

[ldrews]

Do you agree that every child in is entitled to an equal level of education (under the 14th) and that funding is a critical indicator of whether such equality exists?

 

If I as a parent wish to spend my excess disposable income to enhance the quality of my child's education, should I be permitted to do so? And if so, then my child would receive a better education than that provided by the state, and would violate your condition above. The other children would not be entitled to an equal level of education that I provide my child.

 

Now, if you asserting that the level of education provided by the state should be equal for all children, then the political reality is that that level would be a minimum. That would be so because politically aware parents would want to preserve as much money/resources as possible to giver their own children an advantage. I know I certainly would.

 

Also there are some other difficulties in providing an equal level of education to all children. How can we assure that the quality of teaching is the same? That external factors are the same (blizzards shutting down schools, etc.)?