Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Winstonm]

Not all of the students killed or wounded at Kent State were protestors. Some were simply passers-by.

 

From the wikipedia article on Kent State, quoting, apparently, a public statement later by ... somebody ... "The students may have believed that they were right in continuing their mass protest in response to the Cambodian invasion, even though this protest followed the posting and reading by the university of an order to ban rallies and an order to disperse." When I read this, what came to mind was "“Disperse Ye Rebels, Ye Villains Disperse”, an order given by Major John Pitcairn, Royal Marines, at Lexington, April 19, 1775.

 

One idiot's "solution" to what happened at Kent State was "don't give any bullets to the National Guard when they're dealing with students". A better answer would be "don't use the National Guard". These days, though, the answer would probably be to give them tanks. Then we could have our own Tienanmen Square.

 

For the record, not that it matters, I was company clerk in A Company, 1st Battalion, 81st Armored Regiment, 1st Armored Division, at Fort Hood, Texas, on May 4th 1970. A month and a half later I was a civilian student at Cornell University. There were protests and "riots" there that summer and fall, in which I didn't participate. There was tear gas (which was amusing to watch from a nearby rooftop, as many protestors had gas masks), but afair, nobody got shot.

 

To me Kent State was and still is the blackest of all black days in U.S. history, an awakening that the freedom we believe we have is illusory.

[mikeh]

To me Kent State was and still is the blackest of all black days in U.S. history, an awakening that the freedom we believe we have is illusory.

I have been watching a series on PBS, 'Soundbreaking', which is all about the changes in how we listen to recorded music. It was done in collaboration with George Martin, and each episode deals with a narrow topic.

 

This wouldn't seem to have much to do with the topics here, but there was a very short segment in one episode about the Vietnam protest movement and how it impacted popular music. Then there was reference to Kent State, and the narrator said that this led to a change in popular music. Whereas much popular music was, prior to Kent State, about protests, afterwards the music culture mostly abandoned all efforts to effect or reflect pressure for change, and became hedonistic....'young people' (which would have included me at the time!) gave up.

 

This ties in precisely with your comment about the shootings bringing home to the idealistic youth that they had no real power and no hope of ever having such power.

 

Personally, my reaction to what happened is encapsulated in CSN&Y's live album version of Ohio, with its line: Four dead in Ohio. I haven't played that album in many years...maybe I will again soon.

 

Btw, to anyone with interest in popular music, this series, if you can find it, is great.

[y66]

From Enough of hate! (2003) by Robert J. Sternberg, Professor of Human Development in the College of Human Ecology at Cornell University and Honorary Professor of Psychology at Heidelberg University, Germany.

 

The No. 1 problem facing the world today may be hate. Although psychologists have had quite a bit to say about love, they have had much less to say about hate. And yet, arguably, the terrorism, massacres and genocides the world has faced, seemingly throughout human history, may have part of their origins in the development and even cultivation of hate.

 

I do not use the word "cultivation" lightly. There are many thousands of schools and probably millions of families where children are being taught to hate--to believe that people who somehow are supposedly "not like them" are worthy only of eradication. How could terrorists mercilessly murder the victims of the plane crashes of Sept. 11, 2001? How could terrorists or soldiers anywhere, anytime, wantonly commit mass murder? After World War II, many in the world said, "Never again." They were wrong. Massacres and genocides in Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda, Burundi and many other places showed just how wrong.

 

What is hate, anyway? One conception is that posed by my "duplex theory" of hate, according to which hate has two basic components. The first component is structural and involves negation of intimacy, passion and commitment.

 

In negation of intimacy, an individual sees another individual or group as somehow less than human. One cannot possibly feel care or compassion for such targets because they are not really people: They are more like bacteria, vermin or scum, to use just three of the metaphors the Nazis and others applied to their targets. Through passion, the individual becomes aroused toward fight or flight--either to strike at the hated target or to run away from it. So it is not enough just to view the target as nonhuman; one must do something about it. Commitment provides a belief system that supports the feelings of hate.

 

Children are taught stories about the target group that allegedly justify the feelings of hate toward that group--and it is these stories that constitute the second component of the duplex theory. In the duplex theory, the stories are drawn from the work of Keen (1986) and others who have analyzed the kinds of propaganda used to foment hate. Such stories include targets as enemies of God, vermin, rapists, savages, power-crazed and greedy people, and so forth. My analysis of hate-provoking propaganda throughout the ages suggests that the propaganda leads people to internalize stories about their targets, which in turn promote negation of intimacy, passion and commitment. The Nazis, of course, were master propagandists. But all of the major genocides started with similar kinds of propaganda, and the heads of today's terrorist groups are being filled with such vicious material.

 

When we speak of hate, it is easy to think we are speaking of a problem that other people have. The truth, however, is that we all need to be on guard. Ugly incidents against members of all religions are occurring around the world at this very time. Some of these incidents have been in the United States. We need to remember that people often experience hate not as hate, but as self-righteous feelings of anger or aversion. Moreover, there are different kinds of hate (Sternberg, in press). For example, cold hate occurs in the presence of the commitment component alone, whereas burning hate occurs in the presence of all three elements. The more elements of hate that are present, the greater the threat of hate-based action.

 

Working with members of APA's Div. 48 (Society for the Study of Peace, Conflict and Violence) and Public Interest Directorate, I have formed a task force to explore the nature of hate and how we can combat hate and terrorism to achieve lasting peace. As part of my efforts, I also am editing a book on the psychology of hate, to be published by APA. Our goals are to have an impact on science and on the world.

 

I believe that the best ways to combat hate are to understand it, to recognize it in oneself and to reject it. Moreover, I believe that wisdom ultimately may be the best cure. Wise people do not hate because they understand things from other people's points of view, including those of people with whom they may have strong disagreements. Teaching people to think wisely, therefore, may be the best way to teach them to reject hate.

Sternberg recently published The Psychology of Hate

[Winstonm]

I have been watching a series on PBS, 'Soundbreaking', which is all about the changes in how we listen to recorded music. It was done in collaboration with George Martin, and each episode deals with a narrow topic.

 

This wouldn't seem to have much to do with the topics here, but there was a very short segment in one episode about the Vietnam protest movement and how it impacted popular music. Then there was reference to Kent State, and the narrator said that this led to a change in popular music. Whereas much popular music was, prior to Kent State, about protests, afterwards the music culture mostly abandoned all efforts to effect or reflect pressure for change, and became hedonistic....'young people' (which would have included me at the time!) gave up.

 

This ties in precisely with your comment about the shootings bringing home to the idealistic youth that they had no real power and no hope of ever having such power.

 

Personally, my reaction to what happened is encapsulated in CSN&Y's live album version of Ohio, with its line: Four dead in Ohio. I haven't played that album in many years...maybe I will again soon.

 

Btw, to anyone with interest in popular music, this series, if you can find it, is great.

 

I have been watching Soundbreaking, also. Really good.

 

On a sadder note, in 1970 I was 19, and it was not a very good year. Netflix had a really good documentary on Kent State and its aftermath called The Day the Sixties Died. I highly recommend it. It pretty much said what you did - Kent State pretty much ended the organized resistance to the Vietnam War. It is amazing what you can accomplish by killing innocents and innocence.

[Winstonm]

Here lies the problem -

 

CNN’s Alysin Camerota sat down with several long-time Trump supporters for a focus group-style interview on Thursday’s “New Day” and pressed them for their thoughts on the president-elect’s transition and postelection performance....

 

Johnson continued that many anti-Trump voters had little room to complain if they failed to vote in the election. “Voting is a privilege in this country,” Johnson said, before adding, “and you need to be legal, not like California where three million illegals voted.”

 

A confused Camerota asked Johson, “Where are you getting your information?”

 

“From the media!” Johnson insisted. “Some of them were CNN, I believe.”

 

“CNN said that 3 million illegal people voted in California?” an incredulous Camerota asked.

 

Johnson then decided to source her false report directly to President Obama.

 

“I think there was a good amount because the president told people that they could vote,” Johnson claimed. “They said, ‘The president said I could vote. I’m here illegally.’”

 

To her credit, Camerota kept up the line of questioning while seemingly holding back laughter.

 

“Did you hear President Obama said that illegal people could vote?” asked Camerota, to which nearly all the participants nodded their heads and replied, “Yes.”

 

“Tell me, where?” Camerota demanded.

 

At that point, another Trump voter directed Camerota to, “Google it. You could find it on Facebook.”

So she did.

 

Camerota, a former long-time Fox News host, was then forced to read a recent Mediate headline to the group that read, “Fox deceptively edits Obama interview to falsely claim he told illegal immigrants to vote.”

 

The Trump voters were apparently referring to Fox Business Network host Stuart Varney’s false claim that the president “appears to encourage illegals to vote, and he promises no repercussions if they do.”

 

While the above clip is clearly deceptively edited to conflate undocumented immigrants with all Latino voters in the U.S., Fox Business Network not only failed to make that distinction but falsely implied such a distinction was never even made. In fact, Fox Business Network left out the portion of Obama’s comments in which he explicitly stated that undocumented immigrants do not have the legal right to vote.

 

Still, Trump voters remained wedded to the fake news nearly a month after the election.

 

“You as you sit here today think that millions of illegal people voted in this country and you believe that there was widespread voting abuse? In the millions of people?” a clearly exasperated Camerota continued to challenge the Trump voters.

 

“California allows it,” Johnson said.

 

“They do not allow illegals — you mean voter fraud, California allows?” asked a dumbfounded Camerota.

 

“I believe there was voter fraud in this country,” she insisted, remaining steadfast to her false belief.

 

And that is how a misinformation campaign can propels a conman who lost the popular vote to the White House, while his supporters continue to believe they were somehow cheated.

 

I haven't the faintest how to find a solution...

[Al_U_Card]

To me Kent State was and still is the blackest of all black days in U.S. history, an awakening that the freedom we believe we have is illusory.

An in extremis result of not tolerating divergent or otherwise unacceptable viewpoints. The students saw no reason that making weapons and killing people should be the most profitable enterprise.

[jonottawa]

Here lies the problem -

 

 

 

I haven't the faintest how to find a solution...

You could start by not posting utter nonsense like that. You could start by demonstrating a SHRED of intellectual honesty.

 

Do you honestly believe that not a single non-citizen voted in the last election?

 

Do you honestly think that Obama's answer to the question didn't leave room for confusion, particularly to an ESL audience? (The question is at 3:22, here is the full interview:)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLLt-a6dI_0

 

 

If your answer to either of the first 2 questions is yes, that begs a third question: Do you know what the word 'honestly' means?

 

Could you please explain in what sense the editing was fake or misleading. Were they supposed to air the ENTIRE interview?

 

Do you think that people who are already breaking the law EVERY DAY are going to hesitate to claim on some form that they're a US Citizen if that's ALL that they have to do in order to cast a vote?

 

Now, whether hundreds (an absurdly low number that a regressive leftist might trot out, also the margin of victory in the 2000 Election) or tens of thousands (an incredibly conservative estimate,) or hundreds of thousands (my guess,) or millions of non-citizens living in the US illegally voted in 2016: That is VOTER FRAUD & that is a problem.

 

That's why we need a national voter ID law for federal elections. If for no other reason than to give EVERYBODY a sense that American elections are legitimate.

[jonottawa]

I find your posts - those few I have forced myself to struggle through - idiotic, trite and thoroughly boring when they aren't being hysterical..and not in a funny way. Like fleas on a dog,or woodticks in spring, I wish you would just go away. Your attempts to hijack threads are juvenile and thank goodness I'm not forced to read any more of them, I can just scroll past to get to a post from someone who actually has something original to say. This one is that last of yours I will read or answer. If you really thought what you claim to think, then you are not doing your cause any favors by being so dense and irritating.

 

I am eternally grateful that Mikeh and Mycroft are around to demonstrate that not all Canadians are like you, indeed few of us are, but being as you all like to yell and scream and try to get attention any possible way you can it would be reasonable to think that more of us are emotionally and intellectually dishonest and slow than is the truth.

You're right, not all Canadians are like me. Some of us throw random (trite? really?) & childish insults at people, cry victim when someone responds to our posts in a methodical, logical way, refuse to engage intellectually or provide a single example of what they object to, and then storm off in a fit.

 

I am eternally grateful that I'm not like that too.

 

And for the UMPTEENTH time, I am ABUNDANTLY aware that none of the Bubble-dwellers in here will be convinced by me. YOU ARE NOT MY AUDIENCE. Thanks!

 

Now show a little traditional Canadian class & if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71cY9Ysy5U

 

Or at least follow my credo:

 

http://imgc-cn.artprintimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/67/6724/R9TA100Z/posters/emily-flake-son-if-you-can-t-say-something-nice-say-something-clever-but-devastatin-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/payn_c14674320161130120100.jpg

[jonottawa]

I not only agree with this last sentence, I would like to emphasize it. Honestly, it starts at conception with the genetic structure you are given. I have known people whose bodies, if their bodies were cars, would have been recalled. At 77 I have decent health and, while I don't behave totally irresponsibly, nobody would accuse me of being overly careful. And I was born in the U.S. in the twentieth century. You don't have to claim the U.S. is exceptional (I make no such claim) to realize that there are many worse places and many worse centuries to be born into. As to choices, you can bid and play a hand perfectly and go down because of weird distribution, you can be off the wall and survive with luck.. I have made good choices and I have made bad choices, but here I am.

 

Gratitude for and recognition of good fortune is highly appropriate.

 

How does this translate? Most people, not every person but most of them, deserve our respect and our restraint in judging them. "Watch where you're going, step light on old toes" as Bob Seger put it. "Faith hope and charity, but the greatest of these is charity" as Paul put it in his letter to the Corinthians.

 

Recognizing luck in our own lives in no way negates the importance of effort and good judgment. But luck plays a far larger role than it is generally given credit for.

 

Reading this over, it sounds a little corny. I'll post it anyway.

This reminds me of something I heard once ... what was it? Oh wait, I remember!

 

http://quotepixel.com/images/quotes/life/quote-posters_4827-3.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI

 

"Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't

Maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't

Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the "Funky Chicken"

On your 75th wedding anniversary

Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much

Or berate yourself either

Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's"

[jonottawa]

The Real Reason Hillary Asked for a Recount

 

"Part of the answer is that people close to Hillary—Huma Abedin, Chelsea Clinton, and Sidney Blumenthal—encouraged her to ask for a recount as a way of lifting her spirits.

 

“She is weepy, looks ten years older and is very whiny,” said one of Hillary’s closest friends. “She has been drinking wine pretty heavily, much more than usual. She mopes around all day, swimming in a sea of recriminations and complaining that her campaign managers were ‘incompetent,’ Bill and Chelsea ‘didn’t work hard enough,’ FBI Director Comey was ‘in league with Trump.’”"

 

Sad!

 

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg112916dAPC20161129044559.jpghttp://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sk120116dAPC20161201104510.jpg

[kenberg]

This reminds me of something I heard once ... what was it? Oh wait, I remember!

 

http://quotepixel.com/images/quotes/life/quote-posters_4827-3.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI

 

"Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't

Maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't

Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the "Funky Chicken"

On your 75th wedding anniversary

Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much

Or berate yourself either

Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's"

 

 

Now, Donald, you must pay closer attention;

 

The prof (aka keneberg): Recognizing luck in our own lives in no way negates the importance of effort and good judgment. But luck plays a far larger role than it is generally given credit for.

 

The student (aka Donald Trump): Everything in life is luck.

 

The grade: C-

 

And Donald, I did not say that every bounded sequence of real numbers converges. Every bounded sequence of real numbers has a convergent sub-sequence.There is a difference.

 

This is intended as a little late afternoon humor, not any sort of assertion about anything.

 

 

Is this going to get me listed on profwatch?

[PassedOut]

Do you honestly think that Obama's answer to the question didn't leave room for confusion, particularly to an ESL audience?

With all due respect, anyone who claims that Obama encouraged non-citizens to vote is either stupid or dishonest.

 

I know a Mexican woman here illegally (her daughter is a citizen and is a straight-A high-school student). There's no way that this woman would risk calling attention to herself by pulling a stunt like that. And why would illegals in California take that risk when the state was locked in for Clinton? They wouldn't.

 

Not to say fraud never happens, but I worked several elections here in Michigan and I can say that it's not as easy as some folks think to get away with it. Case in point: Trump supporter charged with voting twice in Iowa

 

Terri Lynn Rote, a 55-year-old Des Moines resident, was booked Thursday on a first-degree charge of election misconduct, according to Polk County Jail records. The charge is considered a Class D felony under Iowa state law.

 

Rote was released Friday after posting $5,000 bond. A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Nov. 7.

 

The Des Moines Register reported that Rote is a registered Republican who cast two ballots in the general election: an early-voting ballot at the Polk County Election Office and another at a county satellite voting location, according to police records.

Lock her up!

[cherdano]

You could start by not posting utter nonsense like that. You could start by demonstrating a SHRED of intellectual honesty.

 

Do you honestly believe that not a single non-citizen voted in the last election?

 

Do you honestly think that Obama's answer to the question didn't leave room for confusion, particularly to an ESL audience? (The question is at 3:22, here is the full interview:)

I have been an immigrant myself for the last 10 years (in two different countries).

 

I can promise you that almost no non-citizens voted in the US election. The reason is simple. As a non-citizen, you are much more afraid of committing felonies. You have fewer rights in any legal proceedings. And you have quite a bit more to lose - even minor infractions could cause you to get deported. (Or just not get your VISA renewed.) AKA having to move away from the place where you work, where you have friends, etc.

 

Indeed, the whole premise of the question is that even citizens may be afraid of voting - if they have family, or friends with the same address who are not, and who may not have a legal right to stay in the US. This fear may sound irrational to you. But to me (again, having been an immigrant myself for 10 years) it seems much more plausible than trying to vote illegally as a non-citizen (or, for heaven's sake, as an undocumented immigrant). Why risk your existence for a single vote that almost certainly won't change the outcome?

[mikeh]

I have been an immigrant myself for the last 10 years (in two different countries).

 

I can promise you that almost no non-citizens voted in the US election. The reason is simple. As a non-citizen, you are much more afraid of committing felonies. You have fewer rights in any legal proceedings. And you have quite a bit more to lose - even minor infractions could cause you to get deported. (Or just not get your VISA renewed.) AKA having to move away from the place where you work, where you have friends, etc.

 

Indeed, the whole premise of the question is that even citizens may be afraid of voting - if they have family, or friends with the same address who are not, and who may not have a legal right to stay in the US. This fear may sound irrational to you. But to me (again, having been an immigrant myself for 10 years) it seems much more plausible than trying to vote illegally as a non-citizen (or, for heaven's sake, as an undocumented immigrant). Why risk your existence for a single vote that almost certainly won't change the outcome?

Don't confuse him with logic....let alone facts. It isn't fair and it won't work :P

[jonottawa]

Indeed, the whole premise of the question is that even citizens may be afraid of voting

You agree this is the question that was asked?

 

"Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens -- and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country -- are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?"

 

And you claim "the whole premise of the question is that even citizens may be afraid of voting"?

 

If she had wanted to ask about ACTUAL citizens, she could have done so. She could have said "Many US citizens who are relatives of non-citizens living in the US illegally are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration ..."

 

SHE DIDN'T DO THAT. If she had done that, NOBODY would have an issue with the question.

 

If Obama had corrected her and said directly: Hold on. Non-US Citizens are not allowed to vote & shouldn't register to vote. And then continued on with the rest of his answer, NOBODY would have an issue with the answer.

 

But he didn't.

 

You can play your 'it depends upon what the meaning of the word is is' games all day long. The question was awful. The answer was confusing, and Obama (Mr. 'Let me be clear') is smart enough to know it. And people who pretend otherwise are full of it. There was no 'fake edit'. The answer shown on Fox is the answer he gave.

[cherdano]

Yup Jon. You proved it. She misspoke in the question, hence millions of non-citizen voted in the election. ITS ALL RIGGED!! AND JONOTTOWA PROVED IT!!!

 

Of course she garbled her question. She meant to ask what you wrote in your expanded version. Or maybe she meant to ask about undocumented immigrants who are fearful of their family members (who are citizens) voting.

 

The version you understood doesn't make sense to any immigrant, so nobody understood it that way. Nobody who is undocumented and who is even a tiny bit sane would think of drawing attention to their situation by trying to vote. You don't risk your livelihood and existence for a single vote. Nobody does that.

 

The only reason that Jon can think otherwise is that he has put an ugly caricature of immigrants in his head, and he can't think of them rationally anymore. I wonder whether there is a word for that...

[jonottawa]

I can promise you that almost no non-citizens voted in the US election.

You're not in a position to 'promise' anything. Your guess is certainly no better than mine. But just out of curiosity, what's your definition of 'almost no'?

 

Dozens?

Hundreds?

Thousands?

Tens of Thousands?

[cherdano]

You're not in a position to 'promise' anything. Your guess is certainly no better than mine.

Unless you also have been an immigrant for the last 10 years, I am in a better position than you to guess.

 

But just out of curiosity, what's your definition of 'almost no'?

 

Dozens?

Hundreds?

Thousands?

Tens of Thousands?

Certainly less than thousands. I would be surprised if it is more than 100.

[cherdano]

Here are some stories about deportations, or almost-deportations, of legal immigrants due to being convicted of minor offenses.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-stellin-deportation-legal-immigrants-20160821-snap-story.html

 

It seems impossible to find numbers of how many legal immigrants were deported under Obama due to criminal convictions.

[hrothgar]

Unless you also have been an immigrant for the last 10 years, I am in a better position than you to guess.

 

What makes this truly amusing is that (at least for a time) Jon was an immigrant here in the US.

 

He appeared to be living in Texas and managing an apartment complex (or at least his web site redirected to some ads for apartment rentals with a similar sounding email moniker)...

 

There was also some reference to a rather severe rattlesnake bite (which has been known to cause long term psychological morbidity)

[jonottawa]

Unless you also have been an immigrant for the last 10 years, I am in a better position than you to guess.

You've been a non citizen living in a country illegally for the last 10 years? That's what we're talking about. Not legal immigrants. I agree that legal immigrants would be very unlikely to risk their immigration status by voting, but that's not what we were discussing.

 

Certainly less than thousands. I would be surprised if it is more than 100.

 

I hope the DoJ investigates once they finish their investigation of the Clinton Foundation. There were 14.2 million? or so votes cast in California. If one tenth of one percent (one person in one thousand) of those were cast by non-citizens (the vast majority of which are living in the country illegally,) that's 14,200. That's my 'floor'. I hope we get a chance to find out the true number (or a reasonable facsimile thereof.)

[cherdano]

You've been a non citizen living in a country illegally for the last 10 years? That's what we're talking about. Not legal immigrants. I agree that legal immigrants would be very unlikely to risk their immigration status by voting, but that's not what we were discussing.

So. You are saying legal immigrants are extremely careful not to risk anything. Yet undocumented immigrants are happy to risk their existence.

 

I can't see a reason to think that way. Unless, someone somehow think of undocumented immigrants as irrational beings, almost as if they were inferior humans. I wonder whether there is a word for that.

[Al_U_Card]

Initially, I would not have thought it to be an important issue (election-wise) but it seems that some illegals fearing a Trump policy that would see them deported might sway them to vote, especially if somehow they were convinced that even the President said it was something they should consider. (Not that he did, but just the confusion between english-speakers regarding that interview might be ambiguous enough for the unscrupulous to convince non-english speakers to give it a try because the alternative would be the same (deportation) anyway.

[PassedOut]

There was no 'fake edit'. The answer shown on Fox is the answer he gave.

The folks who watched the interview saw the whole thing, so those folks weren't confused. The only folks confused were those who saw the misleading edit.

 

Obama has done many, many interviews that went unreported by Fox news. The reason that this interview was reported was solely because it lent itself to the misleading edit.

[PassedOut]

What makes this truly amusing is that (at least for a time) Jon was an immigrant here in the US.

 

He appeared to be living in Texas and managing an apartment complex (or at least his web site redirected to some ads for apartment rentals with a similar sounding email moniker)...

 

There was also some reference to a rather severe rattlesnake bite (which has been known to cause long term psychological morbidity)

You mean this guy? Jonathan Ferguson

 

I took on a #Trump-bashing #SkyisFalling #Hillary-shill. Did I win? You tell me.

No.