Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Winstonm]

Well, we spend far too many lines discussing Trump. but that's a national problem comparable to opioid addiction. Maybe we could require that after three posts about Trump the poster is not allowed another Trump post until he says something about his garden, a trip he took, or a book he read. Or something.

 

Or here's an example. I went to a pulmonologist Friday because I have been having altitude issues even at modest heights such as 4000 feet and severe problems at 7000 feet. He had some records sent to him from my general practitioner. The medical community really sucks at technology. The records were in a bad format on the GP's site and after he faxed them over they were unreadable. Fortunately I had already saved those records in a pdf format and sent them as an email attachment to the person in his office who handled such things. Unfortunately she wasn't in that day and she had not done anything with these records, and nobody in the office knew how to get into her email. So I borrowed a computer in the office, logged into my email, went to sent mail, brought up the pdf and printed it out. Whew!. Look guys, I'm 79. I am not supposed to be saving 40 year olds from bungled technology issues.

 

Ok, now I can get back to Trump in my next three posts.If the mod doesn't expel me.

 

Sneaky, Ken, posting how you trumped the tech problem.

 

I, on the other hand, have no problem with the moderator as I only post about David Dennison. Speaking of which, the reason it is so easy to see Dennsion as accepting help from Russia is because of his character and personality, his modus operandi for life, one of being resentful and full of disdain for any and all laws that conflict with his personal desires. When he didn't want the voting world to know about his sex life 2 weeks prior to election day, he summoned his fixer and his accountant, and his publishing friend, totally ignoring campaign finance laws, and orchestrated a buy out and kill of those stories.

 

This may seem like the action that all rich persons might take - but it is something deeper. It goes to character. Just as his instincts to hide his sexual history led him to ignore the law, so , too, did his desire for an advantage against Hillary Clinton lead his campaign to ignore the FBI warnings about Russian reachout, in fact actively seeking to engage with Russians to receive that type of information.

 

Is it really that difficult to think - simply because of who he is, his history, and his character - that Dennison would conspire in an illegal action with a foreign actor or actors if he thought it could help win the election? Would you think the same of Barrack Obama? Or John McCain?

 

Character matters.

[y66]

Well, we spend far too many lines discussing Trump. but that's a national problem comparable to opioid addiction. Maybe we could require that after three posts about Trump the poster is not allowed another Trump post until he says something about his garden, a trip he took, or a book he read. Or something.

 

Or here's an example. I went to a pulmonologist Friday because I have been having altitude issues even at modest heights such as 4000 feet and severe problems at 7000 feet. He had some records sent to him from my general practitioner. The medical community really sucks at technology. The records were in a bad format on the GP's site and after he faxed them over they were unreadable. Fortunately I had already saved those records in a pdf format and sent them as an email attachment to the person in his office who handled such things. Unfortunately she wasn't in that day and she had not done anything with these records, and nobody in the office knew how to get into her email. So I borrowed a computer in the office, logged into my email, went to sent mail, brought up the pdf and printed it out. Whew!. Look guys, I'm 79. I am not supposed to be saving 40 year olds from bungled technology issues.

 

Ok, now I can get back to Trump in my next three posts.If the mod doesn't expel me.

My dog recently had knee surgery. His surgeon's scheduler called my vet and requested my dog's medical records a week before the pre-surgery appointment. After the surgery I received a copy of the surgeon's clinical notes which helped me understand what he did. Perhaps my dog's surgeon's scheduler can talk to your pulmonologist's record keeping person. I suspect this has more to do with good record keeping practices and due diligence than technology. Still, an investment in a flash drive is probably a good idea. My dog is doing well but no frisbee for 10 weeks which is tough for him.

[cherdano]

Two admissions:

1. I love hrothgar.

2. The thought of him as a dispassionate moderator made me LOL.

[barmar]

Barry, long long ago Inquiry asked me if I wanted to be a moderator. I refused, telling him that I would do a bad job and that a bad moderator is much worse than no moderator.

 

You really should do the same because you are awful at this.

That's essentially what I've done. I leave most of it to DIana.

 

And I think we both consider threads like this one to be mostly free-for-alls, where we tolerate quite a bit. As you know, I only really object when people start calling each other really derogatory names like s***-for-brains.

[kenberg]

I think moderating should be done in moderation and I have no quarrel at all with the way it is done here. As to name calling, I recommend the response used by of one of my favorite 5 year olds, a youngster from Brazil whose English was good enough for "What you say is what you are, except the goodest part". The last was no doubt tacked on in case her tormentor would, using the first part, tack on "And also brilliant" or some such.

[Winstonm]

President Trump Dennison vetoed a tribute drafted by White House officials that praised the late Sen. John McCain for his military service and labeled him a “hero,” instead opting for his perfunctory “deepest sympathies” tweet, according to a Sunday report from the Washington Post

 

To be fair, it is difficult to compare the degrees of heroic behavior between a U.S. military member who was captured and tortured by the North Vietnamese with another who avoided military service six times while he battled really uncomfortable bones spurs and the accompanying aggravation of trying to find a comfortable yet stylish pair of Cole Hahn loafers to wear to his 6 appearances in bankruptcy court.

[kenberg]

To be fair, it is difficult to compare the degrees of heroic behavior between a U.S. military member who was captured and tortured by the North Vietnamese with another who avoided military service six times while he battled really uncomfortable bones spurs and the accompanying aggravation of trying to find a comfortable yet stylish pair of Cole Hahn loafers to wear to his 6 appearances in bankruptcy court.

 

Surely anything that Trump chose to say, even the "deepest sympathy and deepest respect" that he did say, would appear hypocritical and unwelcome. Really the best Trump could do is to shut up. In theory he could reflect on how it got to the point where the best he can say is nothing at all, but reflection is not his style.

[barmar]

Surely anything that Trump chose to say, even the "deepest sympathy and deepest respect" that he did say, would appear hypocritical and unwelcome. Really the best Trump could do is to shut up. In theory he could reflect on how it got to the point where the best he can say is nothing at all, but reflection is not his style.

He had to say something. Ignoring McCain's passing completely would be viewed as even a bigger diss than his sympathy for the family tweet. Yeah, praising him now after the horrible things he's said about him in the past would seem artificial. But sometimes purely symbolic gestures are called for, like keeping the flag at half staff until the man is laid to rest. But Trump can't even manage that.

[Winstonm]

He had to say something. Ignoring McCain's passing completely would be viewed as even a bigger diss than his sympathy for the family tweet. Yeah, praising him now after the horrible things he's said about him in the past would seem artificial. But sometimes purely symbolic gestures are called for, like keeping the flag at half staff until the man is laid to rest. But Trump can't even manage that.

 

He is petty and vindictive as are the majority of his supporters.

[johnu]

Dennison, without evidence, blames China for hacking Clinton emails

 

I'm sure Fox Propaganda Channel will add additional details like whether the "real" hacker weighed 400 pounds. :lol:

[Winstonm]

WaPo reports:

 

PHARR, Tex. — On paper, he’s a devoted U.S. citizen.

 

His official American birth certificate shows he was delivered by a midwife in Brownsville, at the southern tip of Texas. He spent his life wearing American uniforms: three years as a private in the Army, then as a cadet in the Border Patrol and now as a state prison guard.

 

But when Juan, 40, applied to renew his U.S. passport this year, the government’s response floored him. In a letter, the State Department said it didn’t believe he was an American citizen.

 

As he would later learn, Juan is one of a growing number of people whose official birth records show they were born in the United States but who are now being denied passports — their citizenship suddenly thrown into question. The Trump administration is accusing hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Hispanics along the border of using fraudulent birth certificates since they were babies, and it is undertaking a widespread crackdown on their citizenship.

 

O.K. I'm calling bull. Time for Dennison to provide proof that not only is he American born, but also born to human parents. (We know Stephen Miller is not human).

[barmar]

O.K. I'm calling bull. Time for Dennison to provide proof that not only is he American born, but also born to human parents. (We know Stephen Miller is not human).

Trump was the unofficial leader of the "birther" movement regarding Obama, so this should hardly be surprising.

 

But you should be careful what you say. He actually sued Bill Maher 5 years ago for calling Trump the son of an orangutan and demanding he produce birth records showing he was born to humans (although he withdrew the lawsuit a couple of months later).

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/entertainment-us-usa-trump-lawsuit-idUSBRE9310PL20130402

[ggwhiz]

Abigail Spanberger is a former CIA officer running for office who's detailed and unredacted security clearance application is in the hands of and being used by a Republican super PAC causing the DNC to warn a total of 34 of it's candidates in similar circumstances from past positions they have held.

 

Illegal as hell and necessarily so personally intrusive that no journalist would bother to file an information request including one. The political weaponization of clearances was started by Trump and appears to be catching on within the GOP. WTF? They need an intervention.

[andrei]

WaPo reports:

 

PHARR, Tex. — On paper, he’s a devoted U.S. citizen.

 

His official American birth certificate shows he was delivered by a midwife in Brownsville, at the southern tip of Texas. He spent his life wearing American uniforms: three years as a private in the Army, then as a cadet in the Border Patrol and now as a state prison guard.

 

But when Juan, 40, applied to renew his U.S. passport this year, the government’s response floored him. In a letter, the State Department said it didn’t believe he was an American citizen.

 

As he would later learn, Juan is one of a growing number of people whose official birth records show they were born in the United States but who are now being denied passports — their citizenship suddenly thrown into question. The Trump administration is accusing hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Hispanics along the border of using fraudulent birth certificates since they were babies, and it is undertaking a widespread crackdown on their citizenship.

 

O.K. I'm calling bull. Time for Dennison to provide proof that not only is he American born, but also born to human parents. (We know Stephen Miller is not human).

 

 

Rio Grande Midwives Deliver Citizenship : A birth certificate scam sheds light on a thriving network of women who help Mexican mothers have babies in Texas. Under lax laws, they can declare the newborns Americans.

 

Maybe reading something else than WP would help ...

[shyams]

Rio Grande Midwives Deliver Citizenship : A birth certificate scam sheds light on a thriving network of women who help Mexican mothers have babies in Texas. Under lax laws, they can declare the newborns Americans.

 

Maybe reading something else than WP would help ...

Would such schemes/scams have been in existence 40 years ago when Juan was born?

[Winstonm]

Rio Grande Midwives Deliver Citizenship : A birth certificate scam sheds light on a thriving network of women who help Mexican mothers have babies in Texas. Under lax laws, they can declare the newborns Americans.

 

Maybe reading something else than WP would help ...

 

Here is the deal - your Times article points it out. I quote: Under lax laws, they can declare the newborns Americans.

 

When brown people take advantage of lax U.S. laws they are criminals; when Dennison tooks advantage of tax laws to pay zero income taxes he said that made him "smart".

 

Which is it? Or does race have everything to do with it?

[Winstonm]

The Atlantic looks at a different reason for Dennison's choices of law enforcement targets to attack.

 

Bruce Ohr. Lisa Page. Andrew Weissmann. Andrew McCabe. President Donald Trump has relentlessly attacked these FBI and Justice Department officials as dishonest “Democrats” engaged in a partisan “witch hunt” led by the special counsel determined to tie his campaign to Russia. But Trump’s attacks have also served to highlight another thread among these officials and others who have investigated his campaign: their extensive experience in probing money laundering and organized crime, particularly as they pertain to Russia.

[andrei]

Here is the deal - your Times article points it out. I quote: Under lax laws, they can declare the newborns Americans.

 

When brown people take advantage of lax U.S. laws they are criminals; when Dennison tooks advantage of tax laws to pay zero income taxes he said that made him "smart".

 

Which is it? Or does race have everything to do with it?

 

 

LOL, did you even read the article?

Although some fraud had long been suspected, the scale of the Rio Grande document scam has cast a spotlight on the lax regulation of midwifery in Texas, where there are few provisions to prevent an unscrupulous partera from lying about the details of a birth.

...

The parents, who allegedly paid $800 to $1,200 for the documents, have not been targeted for prosecution. Most of the midwives, in exchange for cooperating with investigators, also will avoid prison terms at their sentencing next month.

So what do you think, were the midwives criminals?

 

 

Same source

What authorities want most is simply to identify all of the fraudulent records to prevent the children from applying for Social Security cards or other benefits.

 

"We just want to keep those kids out of the system," said INS Special Agent Gilbert Trevino, adding that at least another half-dozen midwives remain under investigation. "I'm looking at the future. I'm thinking about the taxpayers."

....

Despite the millions of dollars spent every year to keep illegal immigrants out

 

This was 1995

Bill Clinton

Racist

[andrei]

Would such schemes/scams have been in existence 40 years ago when Juan was born?

 

Who knows?

The article is 23 years old and I somehow doubt the scam have been discovered in its infancy.

 

It seems, per State Department, that people delivered by midwives in Texas have been denied passports before, under both Bush/Obama.

 

The base had to be re-energized, so Wash. Post obliged.

[Winstonm]

LOL, did you even read the article?

 

Yes. Did you?

 

So what do you think, were the midwives criminals?

 

People who are convicted of felonies are felons, yes.

 

Now, you answer. It is legal for a pregnant Mexican woman to obtain a visa for entry into the U.S. - and it is legal for her to have her baby here. If a Mexican woman follows the law for the purpose of having her child be born in the U.S. so the child will be a U.S. citizen, has she been "smart" like David Dennison or "criminal" because she is not white?

[awm]

As I understand it the issue is as follows:

 

1. There are several midwives (and at least one doctor) who’ve delivered babies both in the US and Mexico.

2. In at least a few cases, they falsified records to show a baby born in Mexico was born in US.

3. This is of course illegal. But it happened decades ago, MOST of the babies these people delivered were in fact born in the US, and those few cases of falsified records may not even be aware of the possibility.

4. The US government response has been to revoke/deny passports to ALL children delivered by these people and detain them for deportation.

 

So we’re imprisoning large numbers of legitimate US citizens in order to “get” a small number whose documents were falsified at their birth (but who nonetheless have lived their whole lives thinking they are US citizens). Why would we do a thing like this, especially when the detained individuals usually win when they challenge in court? Because they’re Latino of course...

 

It’s like if a professional tax preparer was found to have once or twice helped clients cheat on their taxes and the government response was to throw everyone who ever used that preparer in jail for tax fraud. Yes a crime was committed, but most of the people in trouble are innocent and even the ones who are “guilty” might not have done anything intentional.

 

But of course we’d never do that with rich white folks who might use a shady tax preparer... poor brown folks, whole different story.

[barmar]

So we’re imprisoning large numbers of legitimate US citizens in order to “get” a small number whose documents were falsified at their birth (but who nonetheless have lived their whole lives thinking they are US citizens). Why would we do a thing like this, especially when the detained individuals usually win when they challenge in court? Because they’re Latino of course...

 

It’s like if a professional tax preparer was found to have once or twice helped clients cheat on their taxes and the government response was to throw everyone who ever used that preparer in jail for tax fraud. Yes a crime was committed, but most of the people in trouble are innocent and even the ones who are “guilty” might not have done anything intentional.

Or like prohibiting all immigration from majority-Muslim countries, because a tiny fraction of Muslims are dangerous terrorists.

 

Or like building a wall at the Mexico border, because some illegal immigrants might be violent criminals.

 

Or like separating children from their parents when they're caught entering illegally, because there are some illegal immigrants who kidnap children to create fake families.

 

I sense a pattern here. Trump can't see differences in scale -- it all started when he thought his inauguration audience was bigger than Obama's, and that his Electoral College win was the biggest in recent history (not even close).

 

And he's also a racist, of course.

[kenberg]

As I understand it the issue is as follows:

 

1. There are several midwives (and at least one doctor) who've delivered babies both in the US and Mexico.

2. In at least a few cases, they falsified records to show a baby born in Mexico was born in US.

3. This is of course illegal. But it happened decades ago, MOST of the babies these people delivered were in fact born in the US, and those few cases of falsified records may not even be aware of the possibility.

4. The US government response has been to revoke/deny passports to ALL children delivered by these people and detain them for deportation.

 

So we're imprisoning large numbers of legitimate US citizens in order to "get" a small number whose documents were falsified at their birth (but who nonetheless have lived their whole lives thinking they are US citizens). Why would we do a thing like this, especially when the detained individuals usually win when they challenge in court? Because they're Latino of course...

 

It's like if a professional tax preparer was found to have once or twice helped clients cheat on their taxes and the government response was to throw everyone who ever used that preparer in jail for tax fraud. Yes a crime was committed, but most of the people in trouble are innocent and even the ones who are "guilty" might not have done anything intentional.

 

But of course we'd never do that with rich white folks who might use a shady tax preparer... poor brown folks, whole different story.

 

 

And one more point that I think great many would agree with: At some point the past is past. This doesn't apply to murder and it shouldn't apply to sexual abuse of children, but it surely should apply to forged birth certificates. In fact my 1939 birth certificate has false information, incorrectly identifying my birth mother. I was taken home by my future adoptive parents at age about three months and after the adoption was completed a birth certificate was issued with my (adoptive) mother identified as my birth mother. This was both intentional and legal, back then it was thought that the factually accurate details are nobody's business other then my own and my parent's.

 

At some point history should not justify action. Coming around to a 40 year old and telling him that his parents did something illegal concerning his birth, and he must accept the consequences, is unconscionable. I think a great many people agree with this.

 

[hrothgar]

Papadopolus's Defense Sentencing memo just dropped.

 

In the memo, Papadopolulus states that Trump and Session approved a Russian backchannel.

 

Note: this is the memo in which Papadopolus is begging for mercy. Its highly unlikely that he's going to be introducing new lies or new info.

Which pretty much means that Mueller already haas a case against Trump for trying to open a back channel to Russia.

 

"No collusion" indeed...

[y66]

Re: the tax cut and who benefits, here's a very readable op-ed by Bethany McLean at NYT that argues that the shale oil industry is economically unsustainable, has net debt of over $200 billion as of 2015 and is "a bit reminiscent of the dot-com bubble of the late 1990s when internet companies were valued on the number of eyeballs they attracted, not on the profits they were likely to make". And a related story by Justin Makula at DESMOG about the "persistent paltry returns" of cash burning shale oil companies and how windfalls from the tax bill are obscuring what looks like a ponzi scheme that would make Bernie Madoff blush.