Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[RedSpawn]

Thousands of jobs created by the US economy per month:

2014: 249

2015: 226

2016: 187

2017: 174

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1mGHtSyupIA/VMva0iJCTLI/AAAAAAAAQac/Azs_aTy0sOM/s1600/Jobs-by-president-1960-2012-Joe-Scarborough.jpg

 

This is what I want to see. You can't soundbite job growth. We need to add Trump's figures for the calendar year 2017. This is how I like to see partisan data. Sunshine is the best form of disinfectant.

[RedSpawn]

For those behind the times trying to blame Hillary and the Steele dossier, here is the actual reason for the start of the Russia-Trump investigation: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html?_r=0

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

 

Should the computer networks of the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee and any other emerging parties meet certain certification and firewall standards to be outlined by the Department of Homeland Security since their hacking could lead to a foreign agent hacking their systems and releasing a trove of e-mails that may have a material impact on the outcome of a federal election?

 

We are in the era of Hackathons and have rolled up state and local information technology election systems under Homeland Security's jurisdiction but left the RNC and DNC to fend on their own in terms of network security protection. We deem this a private matter with a public domain spillover effect should a hack occur.

 

Is 2018 the time we change this?

[RedSpawn]

Sorry, but "two Russian wives" is blatantly incorrect.

 

Ivanka (Zelnickova) Trump is a Czech and definitely not Russian at all. She hails from what is now the Czech Republic. It is the western 2/3 of what was Czechoslovakia and is located south of Germany, southeast of Poland, and north of Austria. Prior to Czechoslovakia, Bohemia and Moravia which form the bulk of the Czech Republic were both part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and never any part of Russia.

 

Melania (Knauss) Trump is Slovenian and again definitely not Russian at all. Slovenia is on the Balkan Peninsula and once was part of Yugoslavia. It is directly across Adriatic Sea from Italy. Likewise, prior to Yugoslavia, it was also part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

 

But, hey, those people with the funny names without vowels and sometimes with -ova at the end are all the same right? Um...No! His wives are definitely of the Slavic race, but they are from distinct non-Russian groups of Slavs (who BTW are very anti-Russian, if anything). The -ova at the end of woman's surnames is a linguistic addition that is common in many different Slavic languages to distinguish women from men.

I concede here. I didn't differentiate between Russia (formerly USSR) and the Eastern block. Let's look at this world map below:

 

http://apworldhistorypd5.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/7/0/26701716/437586450_orig.jpg

 

Czechslovakia used to be a former USSR satellite-state but it was technically its own country. It no longer exists as a unit and is now Czech Republic and Slovakia.

 

Also, when I said two Russian wives I should have gone in for the jugular and intimated two Russian mail-order brides which typically includes pure Russian women and women of former Eastern block origin like Czech or Slovakia.

 

I can understand how a mail-order bride salivating over American citizenship would entertain marrying Trump despite his huge character flaws.

 

Source: http://www.planetromance.cz/cz-vs-russian-women/

[Winstonm]

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

 

Should the computer networks of the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee and any other emerging parties meet certain certification and firewall standards to be outlined by the Department of Homeland Security since their hacking could lead to a foreign agent hacking their systems and releasing a trove of e-mails that may have a material impact on the outcome of a federal election?

 

We are in the era of Hackathons and have rolled up state and local information technology election systems under Homeland Security's jurisdiction but left the RNC and DNC to fend on their own in terms of network security protection. We deem this a private matter with a public domain spillover effect should a hack occur.

 

Is 2018 the time we change this?

 

How do you get a party and president who control all aspects of government and who benefited from Russian hacking to act to protect from future hacks, though?

[hrothgar]

How do you get a party and president who control all aspects of government and who benefited from Russian hacking to act to protect from future hacks, though?

 

More important, the DNC penetration was based on spear-phishing.

 

Improving your firewall standards ain't gonna help.

 

A strong 2FA scheme might be a bit more useful, however, most of the end users of these systems are technologically illiterate. (And I am specifically talking about people like Trump, Clinton, Podesta, etc. who absolutely require access to the systems in question)

 

From my perspective, the most important areas to clean up are

 

1. Voting machines

2. Voter registration

 

On the voting machine front, I would strongly prefer to see systems based on

 

A. Auditable open source software

B. Computer terminals that end users use to select their choices, but then generate physical ballots

C. A second set of machines that counts ballots

 

This would seem to provide the best flexibility wrt ballot design accompanied with paper ballots that voters can use to validate that the voting terminal recorded their votes, a vote counting system that can be audited for accuracy, and actual physical records.

 

With respect to voter registration:

 

A. I think that this needs to be federalized

B. I suspect that we need to adopt some kind of Federal ID card that is issued to all citizens

 

The crack pot state by state systems that we have today have very real problems regarding voter suppression.

[diana_eva]

I concede here. I didn't differentiate between Russia (formerly USSR) and the Eastern block.

 

Most of the "Eastern block" hated and still hates Russia. Having Russia nearby is not fun at all, and that includes the ex-communist countries. Those naive dreamers who fantasize about a world of peace where USA and Russia fraternize are out of touch with reality. Russia lies, that's the problem with them. They can't be trusted.

[Winstonm]

Most of the "Eastern block" hated and still hates Russia. Having Russia nearby is not fun at all, and that includes the ex-communist countries. Those naive dreamers who fantasize about a world of peace where USA and Russia fraternize are out of touch with reality. Russia lies, that's the problem with them. They can't be trusted.

 

I think the big issue regarding Russia is that both Tillerson and Trump look at Russia through a business lens, with Trump in particular ignoring any Russian criminality that might interfere with Trump profit. In fact, Trump has said he believes U.S. companies should be free to use bribes and payoffs when necessary in foreign markets.

 

The pendulum of the U.S. has swung too far toward business interests - it is time for it to swing back toward labor and social issues.

[diana_eva]

I think the big issue regarding Russia is that both Tillerson and Trump both look at Russia through a business lens, with Trump in particular ignoring any Russian criminality that might interfere with Trump profit. In fact, Trump has said he believes U.S. companies should be free to use bribes and payoffs when necessary in foreign markets.

 

The pendulum of the U.S. has swung too far toward business interests - it is time for it to swing back toward labor and social issues.

 

Yeah from a business point of view there's lots of potential especially if he won't let ethics get in the way of making money.

[ldrews]

Yeah from a business point of view there's lots of potential especially if he won't let ethics get in the way of making money.

 

And it seems to me that very few people allow ethics to influence their business or political lives. It seems to be a universal constant.

[y66]

From The case for optimism in 2018 by Gideon Rachman at FT:

 

The year 2018 is beginning with economic and geopolitical indicators pointing in very different directions. Global stock markets are at record highs and economic confidence is growing across most of the developed world. But while investors are bullish, followers of international politics are very nervous.

 

In recent years, it has tended to be the Middle East that delivers bad news, and Asia that specialises in optimism. This year could reverse that pattern. The biggest geopolitical risk is a war on the Korean peninsula. If the US carries through on President Donald Trump’s threat to use “fire and fury” to disarm North Korea it will be the first time that America has gone to war with another nuclear-armed state. The risks are literally incalculable.

 

By contrast, there are several big things that could finally go right in the Middle East. The combination of turmoil in Iran, liberalising reforms in Saudi Arabia and the final defeat of Islamic State on the battlefield would all be serious setbacks for the most fundamentalist and confrontational forms of Islamism.

 

Investors and economists seem to be discounting the risk of war in North Korea. But national security experts are much less sanguine. Many say that the atmosphere in Washington now is uncomfortably reminiscent of the mood before the invasion of Iraq in 2003 — when the US foreign policy establishment talked itself into believing that a pre-emptive war against Saddam Hussein was a good idea. In a similar manner, war with North Korea is moving from the unthinkable into the thinkable column.

 

These uncompromising statements need to be weighed against the factors that have always deterred an American attack — above all the threat that North Korean retaliation could cause hundreds of thousands of casualties in neighbouring South Korea.

 

One possibility is that the US military has told the White House that it can keep casualties in South Korea to an acceptable level — by pre-emptive strikes that target the North Korean missiles aimed at Seoul, the South Korean capital. But, even if that worked, it would leave open the question of how to find and secure the regime’s nuclear weapons — a mission that would probably have to involve ground troops.

 

It still sounds too dangerous to contemplate, particularly given that America’s closest Asian allies — Japan, South Korea and Australia — would be very unlikely to back a pre-emptive strike. A New Year’s message from Kim Jong Un, the North Korean leader, played upon this division — threatening the US with nuclear weapons, while offering dialogue with South Korea.

 

So my starting assumption for 2018 is that there will not, in the end, be a war on the Korean peninsula. A conventional president would worry deeply that US “credibility” would be compromised by a failure to deliver on his solemn promise to stop North Korea’s nuclear programme. But President Trump invents his own reality, so is much less likely to be concerned by appearances.

 

In any case, one good rule about geopolitical predictions is that the truly world-changing events — from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 — are the ones that the experts had not foreseen. This week’s unanticipated outbreak of demonstrations on the streets of Iran is a useful reminder of that fact.

 

Pessimism is usually the best bet in the Middle East. From the Iraq war to the Arab spring to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, the most gloomy assessments are often vindicated. So it should be acknowledged that in Iran, the likeliest outcome is that the current rash of protests will fizzle out or be crushed, as they were in 2009.

 

On the other hand, Islamist fundamentalism is an economic and social dead-end — and people stuck in a dead-end eventually try to reverse their way out. Something of the sort may already be under way in Saudi Arabia, where the impetuous crown prince Mohammed bin Salman seems genuinely determined to take on the Wahhabi establishment. If the rivalrous groups of Islamist hardliners lose ground in Riyadh and Tehran — and on the battlefields of Syria and Iraq — then 2018 could go down as a year of historic setbacks for Islamist fundamentalism.

 

After a dismal run in world politics, it is certainly time to be reminded that there can be good, as well as bad, surprises. My own new year’s resolution is to try to snap out of Trump and Brexit-induced gloom.

 

In that spirit, I will predict that most of the big risks that currently worry pundits will not happen. There will not be a war on the Korean peninsula, nor will there be one in the South China Sea or in eastern Europe. The EU will not fall apart, Brexit negotiations will not break down and markets will not crash. By contrast, there will be big and positive change in the Middle East. And England will win the World Cup.

[RedSpawn]

How do you get a party and president who control all aspects of government and who benefited from Russian hacking to act to protect from future hacks, though?

Good question. . .this is where good policy would meet partisan gridlock because we can't expect politicians to act against their own self-interest.

[rmnka447]

I concede here. I didn't differentiate between Russia (formerly USSR) and the Eastern block. Let's look at this world map below:

 

http://apworldhistorypd5.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/7/0/26701716/437586450_orig.jpg

 

Czechslovakia used to be a former USSR satellite-state but it was technically its own country. It no longer exists as a unit and is now Czech Republic and Slovakia.

 

Also, when I said two Russian wives I should have gone in for the jugular and intimated two Russian mail-order brides which typically includes pure Russian women and women of former Eastern block origin like Czech or Slovakia.

 

I can understand how a mail-order bride salivating over American citizenship would entertain marrying Trump despite his huge character flaws.

 

Source: http://www.planetromance.cz/cz-vs-russian-women/

 

Understand that many of the distinct Slavic ethnic groups don't have extremely large populations. So they've been unwillingly dominated by other groups that are larger and stronger for centuries. Most of the Eastern Bloc countries weren't exactly willing partners with the Soviet Union and still bear a lot of animus towards Russia today. Much of the animosity between some Slavic groups even stems from such causes. You might not remember when Hungary an Eastern Bloc member revolted against the USSR in 1954 and were brutally repressed. (Hungarians aren't Slavs, but were part of the Bloc.) Likewise, Czechoslovakia tried to institute democratic reforms in 1968 which were crushed during the Prague Spring by the USSR. The Poles also had a tough time throwing off domination by the Soviets and finally had the breakthrough that lead to the downfall of the Soviet Union in the '80s.

 

Lumping all Slavs together is as racially insensitive as being a person who states they can't tell Blacks apart because they all look the same.

 

In any case, I don't think Ivanka or Melania were "mail order" brides in any typical sense. Both had successful careers before Trump. I suspect one of the things that attracted Trump was that these were strong, independent woman. Maybe that's what he needs to keep him in line.

 

Frankly, the incessant criticism of and attacks directed at Melania Trump by the MSM have some strong racist overtones to them. Demeaning the intelligence of a person whose 5th language is English for using a script to help make sure she gets the pronunciation right in a speech just isn't right, it's racist.

[RedSpawn]

From The case for optimism in 2018 by Gideon Rachman at FT:

The threat of war with North Korea is not real unless and until our economy craters similar or worse to the housing bubble crash of October 2008 or unless or until North Korea attacks us. If our economy has another asset bubble crash and wealth vaporization in our capital markets, we will need a war to distract the masses of the painful fallout of our market collapse.

 

We will want to demonize someone for our folly and irrational exuberance. And North Korea is the perfect noncompliant Axis of Evil we will blame for our suffering as we pound the war drums and run up the war tab.

[cherdano]

Frankly, the incessant criticism of and attacks directed at Melania Trump by the MSM have some strong racist overtones to them. Demeaning the intelligence of a person whose 5th language is English for using a script to help make sure she gets the pronunciation right in a speech just isn't right, it's racist.

Can you give an example of the MSM demeaning the intelligence of Melania Trump?

[awm]

More important, the DNC penetration was based on spear-phishing.

 

Improving your firewall standards ain't gonna help.

 

A strong 2FA scheme might be a bit more useful, however, most of the end users of these systems are technologically illiterate. (And I am specifically talking about people like Trump, Clinton, Podesta, etc. who absolutely require access to the systems in question)

 

From my perspective, the most important areas to clean up are

 

1. Voting machines

2. Voter registration

 

This answer seems like a bit of a bait-and-switch. While I agree that the various voter suppression tactics being pursued by Republicans are against the spirit of our country, and that it would be good to prevent them... this was not really the topic being discussed, which is interference in our elections by foreign powers, specifically by hacking and obtaining internal memos and strategy documents (and then leaking them to the opposition or to the country as a whole), as well as various uses of bots, advertisements, and "fake news" websites to promote stories which aren't true (but impact the vote).

 

Much as I'm in favor of free speech, we have election laws for a reason and these laws generally disallow political ads by foreign powers! They also require that political ads be identified with who paid for them (although in recent times this has become fuzzy with the many misnamed PACs running around). I think we need to apply these laws more aggressively to social networks -- Facebook (and Google, and Twitter, etc). It might also help to have stronger libel laws; perhaps if I post a totally untrue political story on my web page I should face some penalties (especially if I should/could have known it was untrue)?

[hrothgar]

This answer seems like a bit of a bait-and-switch. While I agree that the various voter suppression tactics being pursued by Republicans are against the spirit of our country, and that it would be good to prevent them... this was not really the topic being discussed, which is interference in our elections by foreign powers, specifically by hacking and obtaining internal memos and strategy documents (and then leaking them to the opposition or to the country as a whole), as well as various uses of bots, advertisements, and "fake news" websites to promote stories which aren't true (but impact the vote).

 

Much as I'm in favor of free speech, we have election laws for a reason and these laws generally disallow political ads by foreign powers! They also require that political ads be identified with who paid for them (although in recent times this has become fuzzy with the many misnamed PACs running around). I think we need to apply these laws more aggressively to social networks -- Facebook (and Google, and Twitter, etc). It might also help to have stronger libel laws; perhaps if I post a totally untrue political story on my web page I should face some penalties (especially if I should/could have known it was untrue)?

 

Hi Adam,

 

I agree that my response changed the focus of the discussion.

 

This was deliberate because the areas that you are calling attention to strike me as being both

 

1. Hard to solve

2. Controversial

 

(I haven't made up my own mind on a lot of this stuff)

 

In contrast, I would hope that the two areas that I identified could attract some measure of bi-partisan agreement and have technical fixes that seem relatively well understood. As such, if I were trying to address the broad topic of "Security Surrounding Elections", I'd start with the low hanging fruit.

[barmar]

In any case, I don't think Ivanka or Melania were "mail order" brides in any typical sense.

Just need to remind you: Ivanka is his daughter, the former wife is Ivana.

[barmar]

Can you give an example of the MSM demeaning the intelligence of Melania Trump?

Not to mention that practically everyone uses a script when giving a public speech. DT needs to do it more -- when he goes off script, he often produces incomprehensible rambling (is "stream of unconscious" a thing?).

 

The only time I can remember the MSM giving her a hard time was when they noticed that much of her speech to the RNC seemed to be plagiarized from a Michelle Obama speech. That was more the fault of her speechwriter, IMHO.

 

There are jokes about a possible strained relationship with Donald, like the time she slapped his hand away while they were walking together, or the pained expression on her face when Donald is speaking and can't see her.

[hrothgar]

 

The only time I can remember the MSM giving her a hard time was when they noticed that much of her speech to the RNC seemed to be plagiarized from a Michelle Obama speech. That was more the fault of her speechwriter, IMHO.

 

 

There were plenty of comments that her Brazilian needs to be touched up before she goes plastering her genitals in any more papers...

[rmnka447]

Just need to remind you: Ivanka is his daughter, the former wife is Ivana.

Excuse me, I meant Ivana throughout my reply.

[cherdano]

Can you give an example of the MSM demeaning the intelligence of Melania Trump?

Still curiuos whether rmnka can give an example.

[Winstonm]

Still curiuos whether rmnka can give an example.

 

And he said he didn't listen to Rush or watch Hannity but did not name the sources he does rely on yet repeats the far right lines so it makes one wonder where he sees, hears, or reads it?

[Winstonm]

Concerning Kim Jung-un, Donald Trump tweeted:

 

"Will someone from his depleted and food starved regime please inform him that I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works!"

This was followed by this supportive tweet:

The Michael Flynn Jr. tweeted:

 

This is why Trump was elected. A no bullsh#t leader not afraid to stand up for his country...#Trump2020 #MAGA2018

 

There seems to be a pattern here - the same pattern seen on 4th grade playgrounds at recess or in huddled cliques in middle school.

[ldrews]

Concerning Kim Jung-un, Donald Trump tweeted:

 

 

 

 

 

There seems to be a pattern here - the same pattern seen on 4th grade playgrounds at recess or in huddled cliques in middle school.

 

How would you handle North Korea? They seem to have a 25 year history of using negotiations and agreements to stall while continuing their nuclear program. Kim Jong Un is a blustering bully threatening nuclear strikes against the US. He seems to have no incentive or motivation to seek an amicable agreement which removes their nuclear weapon capability.

 

So what would you do?

[hrothgar]

 

So what would you do?

 

Drews, drews, drews

 

Multiple people already provided answers to this earlier in the "discussion".

 

Go back and read what they have to say.

If you have questions, feel free to ask them.

 

But don't expect people to repost because you are too stupid to be able to follow along with a thread.