Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Al_U_Card]

It's very interesting, no one in the global sphere desires to be held hostage by another sovereign country having nuclear capability, but there is a fine line between protecting American interests (whatever that really means) and playing God with people's lives.

 

Here is a proposition of what true American interests should mean -- very interesting:

 

Source: http://www.heritage.org/political-process/report/what-are-americas-vital-interests

 

This is about protecting our people and global citizens AND PROTECTING OUR MARITIME SEA TRADE ROUTES which support our economy and the broader global economy.

 

We don't need North Korea holding us hostage and fu%^ing up our prosperity which, in part, is based on heavily regulated and guarded sea lanes in the Asia-Pacific rim.

 

See map below:

 

http://dogfoose.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PacificRim.jpg

That is quite a map. Any reason why every country is integral but the US has Ca, Or and Wa as separate entities?

[ldrews]

You're the one who said Trump is addressing it. But all he's done is warn them how powerful our military is.

 

So to you "addressing" it means already having a solution rather than searching for a solution?

[ldrews]

On this recent Asian trip the US delegation/businesses signed 250 billion dollars of trade agreements. I assume everyone thinks that this is a result of actions that Obama put into place over a year ago.

[rmnka447]

This, from PBS, offers an understanding of the steps taken over the years with North Korea.

Thanks! Interesting piece.

 

But it seems to infer that North Korea was reacting to US/UN moves rather than US/UN moves being a reaction to things that North Korea was doing. Either is plausible. But the nature of obtaining intelligence in a closed society like North Korea may make it impossible to divulge information that support the latter.

 

Early in the piece, it mentions that North Korea became a Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty participant and had reached agreement with South Korea to not obtain or use atomic weapons. It further stated that it wouldn't let IAEA inspectors examine its nuclear wastes and then dropped out of the NPT. The examination of such waste may provide strong evidence about the nature of NK's nuclear activities. So, denial of such inspection is worrisome and potential indicator that North Korea was surreptitiously going beyond peaceful use of nuclear power.

 

Additionally, the testing and development of longer range missiles doesn't make sense if all you're able to put on them is conventional explosives. So that too is worrisome.

 

The article also frames simply in terms of nuclear weapons. But Kim Jung-Un has made it clear that he seeks re-unification of all Korea under his leadership. So part of his nuclear weapons development may be to use it as a bargaining chip to undermine or remove US support of South Korea to enable such a takeover. Or, after he develops such capability and has ICBMs deployed against US targets, use it as a deterent against US support against a conventional weapons attack on South Korea.

[ldrews]

Perchance is this a slippery slope logical fallacy?

 

Maybe not as the initial act is somewhat ominous instead of innocuous.

 

However, the United States is engaging in jingoism with North Korea.

 

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lgI-LKZEWYg/UyFmV4_8qlI/AAAAAAAAITg/ipZbFpRpbE8/s1600/Logical+Fallacy+05+-+Slippery+Slope.png

 

Does the same fallacy apply to allowing lots of guns in society being a precursor to lots of shootings?

[RedSpawn]

That is quite a map. Any reason why every country is integral but the US has Ca, Or and Wa as separate entities?

The CA, OR, and WA represent the states with major sea ports through which goods currently arrive from the Pacific Ocean to enter the United States. These goods are shipped on container ships or the mega-ships and arrive at these sea ports and are docked, unloaded, and logistically processed so that trucking companies or railroad companies receive the payload and deliver it to manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers and a bevy of middlemen.

 

It's a finely tuned and well oiled machine until North Korea demands to be a part of the financial action by becoming a nuclear power, a power broker in the Asia-Pacific Rim, and a major gatekeeper of the Korean Peninsula.

 

Always follow the money and you will find American interests. This is what America's unbridled consumerism looks like from a maritime perspective:

 

http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/20150401_news0012.jpg

[ldrews]

 

Always follow the money and you will find American interests.

 

Always follow the money and you will find everybodies' interests. Fixed that for you.

[RedSpawn]

On this recent Asian trip the US delegation/businesses signed 250 billion dollars of trade agreements. I assume everyone thinks that this is a result of actions that Obama put into place over a year ago.

To be clear, countries signed trade agreements totaling 25% of a trillion dollars which is the functional equivalent of winning a $1,000,000 lottery, 250,000 separate times. WOW!

 

We could label this a Trump victory but guess what?

 

Every president takes international deals that multinational corporations broker in the Asia-Pacific Rim and claim them as their own political victories.

 

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-asia-china-deals-boeing/boeing-signs-deal-to-sell-300-planes-worth-37-billion-to-china-idUSKBN1D91BZ

 

Take for example: Boeing. They signed an agreement to sell $37 billion of aircraft to China and Trump said, "See I did that! That's me and America winning so much!" He included that figure in the $250 billion trade total for his visit even though it is highly unlikely he was pivotal to the hard-knuckled trade talks between Chinese government officials and Boeing senior management.

 

All Trump wanted and needed for his base was a public relations ego boost and the China visit provided the perfect platform for such political commentary especially with an eye-popping $250 billion total. He is doing what politicians do. . . playing to their base.

 

And Obama signed a trade agreement as well and that deal was allegedly the biggest trade deal since NAFTA but it is dwarfed by the $250 billion trade agreement in China.

 

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44989775/ns/politics-white_house/t/obama-signs-trade-deals-biggest-nafta/

 

Basically, what's profitable for Corporate America and the Wall Street money handlers is good for their partners, managers, employees, shareholders, and consumers.

 

And what is profitable for Wall Street and Corporate America is good for wholly-owned politicians whose campaigns are largely financed by crafty, "well-intentioned" billionaires and shadow corporations who funnel dark money through PACs and SUPER-PACs.

 

NOTE: I used the term "who" since corporations have recently assumed personhood in America's political institutions thanks to our fabulous Supreme Court and the infamous Citizens United ruling.

 

Rate this a Trump victory, but understand it's the U.S. corporations already domiciled and doing business in China that are the true heroes of this success story. Trump is the good will ambassador who shows up to showcase and champion their victories and accept the trophy on their behalf.

[Winstonm]

Thanks! Interesting piece.

 

But it seems to infer that North Korea was reacting to US/UN moves rather than US/UN moves being a reaction to things that North Korea was doing. Either is plausible. But the nature of obtaining intelligence in a closed society like North Korea may make it impossible to divulge information that support the latter.

 

Early in the piece, it mentions that North Korea became a Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty participant and had reached agreement with South Korea to not obtain or use atomic weapons. It further stated that it wouldn't let IAEA inspectors examine its nuclear wastes and then dropped out of the NPT. The examination of such waste may provide strong evidence about the nature of NK's nuclear activities. So, denial of such inspection is worrisome and potential indicator that North Korea was surreptitiously going beyond peaceful use of nuclear power.

 

Additionally, the testing and development of longer range missiles doesn't make sense if all you're able to put on them is conventional explosives. So that too is worrisome.

 

The article also frames simply in terms of nuclear weapons. But Kim Jung-Un has made it clear that he seeks re-unification of all Korea under his leadership. So part of his nuclear weapons development may be to use it as a bargaining chip to undermine or remove US support of South Korea to enable such a takeover. Or, after he develops such capability and has ICBMs deployed against US targets, use it as a deterent against US support against a conventional weapons attack on South Korea.

 

You are confused as to timelines. The missile tests came after a successful nuclear test. Also, Kim Jung-un did not come into power until December of 2011.

 

Most of North Korea's goals are based on survival as a nation.

[hrothgar]

So to you "addressing" it means already having a solution rather than searching for a solution?

 

If "searching for a solution" is sufficient to be "addressing the problem", how is what Trump is doing different than Obama?

[RedSpawn]

You are confused as to timelines. The missile tests came after a successful nuclear test. Also, Kim Jung-un did not come into power until December of 2011.

 

Most of North Korea's goals are based on survival as a nation.

Agreed. And one of the reasons Kim-Jung-un wants reunification of North Korea with South Korea is he will then control the sea lanes of the Korean Peninsula and become a major player and power broker in the Asia-Pacific Rim trade market.

 

True, he could try to sell his nuclear capabilities to Jihadist organizations for money but at the end of the day he needs MONEY to finance his military payroll, maintain his lavish lifestyle, and feed his people.

 

Whether he gets the money, then the power, and then the respect through creating new Asia-Pacific maritime rules and protocol for the Korean Peninsula or though illicit, underground nuclear arms deals or both. . .only time will tell but none of our options look appetizing at this juncture.

 

Where is that slippery slope when you need one? Oh, there it is . . .

 

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/012/217/1359999754208.jpg

[RedSpawn]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/top-trump-pentagon-nominee-insane-civilians-buy-semi/story?id=50996546

 

When the feces hits the ceiling, the Air Force calls in the Inspector General to determine what internal controls senior management failed to monitor that contributed to the Texas church massacre.

 

We need to stop faking the funk and HEAVILY FUND our INSPECTOR GENERAL DEPARTMENTS to expose the significant material weaknesses in the internal control structure of federal agencies and their exposure to lethal outcomes like this one.

 

We don't need BIGGER government as in more agencies. Looking from 2001 - Now, we already have that monster in our lives and bigger government has not translated to better government or better governance.

 

We need responsive federal agencies with managers who are capable of taking ownership of their fiefdoms; conducting consistent internal reviews; and implementing thoughtful, necessary systemic changes. This will help maximize operating effectiveness of federal agencies while minimizing opportunities or tolerance for gross professional negligence as is the case with the Air Force in this situation.

 

Sure, we have federal employee unions that provide protections against terminations. However, union protection should not translate to institutional inertia unless management is complicit in abrogating its responsibility to supervise its people; observe and report gross lapses in employee performance and behavior; and counsel and discipline non-performers.

 

Ex-post facto internal audits aren't a preventative measure -- they're symptomatic of reactionary leadership and ineffectual triage management. It's too late for the Air Force because innocent blood has been shed as sacrificial payment for this management oversight and major lapse in internal control.

 

Our nation needs to stand up and demand more accountability and more Inspector Generals to issue management reports and weekly and bi-weekly press releases that become the relished 60 Minutes special investigations that provide the public with a 1st hand account of how our tax dollars are being used, misused, and abused.

 

The best kind of vision is super-vision. WATCH and MONITOR the people in the fiefdom. Also, sunshine is the best form of disinfectant against the scourge of graft. We need more Inspector Generals to shine a beacon of light on the scale and scope of these problems BEFORE they escalate and spiral out of control.

 

I am confident there is enough mismanagement, waste, graft, and corruption to create a government reality show to titillate the masses for decades.

[RedSpawn]

Please delete-duplicate.

[RedSpawn]

For those who refuse to think for themselves, it is important due to Trump's denial of Russian interference and acceptance of Putin's word over his own intelligence officers combined with his attack as political the motivations of the 4 independent intelligence services who fingered Russia and Putin.

 

It's a big deal when the president sides with the enemy over his own people.

Maybe there is a larger cat and mouse game here:

 

THOUGHTS TO CONSIDER:

 

1) From a foreign policy perspective, we have to hold our friends close and our enemies even closer.

 

2) If Russia is guilty of election meddling, what is the cure aside from removing Trump from office?

 

3) Did our nation pay a penalty of equal measure when we meddled in foreign elections to protect American interests or did we assume American exceptionalism provided us diplomatic immunity from such transgressions?

 

4) I think we need Russia AS AN ALLY to extinguish this North Korea problem in the long run because North Korea is suspicious of China (as its government structure evolves and rolls out economic sanctions) and views America as an overly aggressive, sinister and hypocritical bully.

 

On the international stage, we need Russia to play good cop and China and the U.S. to play bad cop. We have to get North Korea to believe that the US and Russia are sworn enemies to make it appear as if NK is getting a "good deal" on the international stage if it negotiates through Russia.

 

Hmmmm, maybe we are executing this strategy now but the public messaging is keeping us fixated on the Russian collusion angle which appears to be a smaller global threat than the NK nuclearization.

 

Let us not forget that North Korean officials met with Russian officials in September 2017 which demonstrates NK is open to discussing matters. We and Russia have to continue to play a SPY VS. SPY game to keep Kim Jung-un receptive to brokering peace talks through Russia.

 

Source: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/09/27/North-Korea-Russia-officials-meet-in-Moscow-to-discuss-cooperation/2781506518035/

[ldrews]

If "searching for a solution" is sufficient to be "addressing the problem", how is what Trump is doing different than Obama?

 

Do you really think that Obama's efforts regarding North Korea are of the same magnitude as Trump's efforts?

 

I do not remember Obama sending 3 aircraft carrier groups to the North Korean area. I do not remember Obama telling the other countries that if you do business with North Korea you don't get to do business with the US. I don't remember Obama going on an international tour of several Asian countries and at each stop specifically requesting help to reign in North Korea.

 

Do you?

[ldrews]

Most of North Korea's goals are based on survival as a nation.

 

I don't think their approach will work out well for them.

[RedSpawn]

Do you really think that Obama's efforts regarding North Korea are of the same magnitude as Trump's efforts?

 

I do not remember Obama sending 3 aircraft carrier groups to the North Korean area. I do not remember Obama telling the other countries that if you do business with North Korea you don't get to do business with the US. I don't remember Obama going on an international tour of several Asian countries and at each stop specifically requesting help to reign in North Korea.

 

Do you?

Did you read my response of President Obama's foreign policy strategy on North Korea? Please at least skim read all links below to see the actions President Obama took regarding North Korea.

 

It sounds like you need sources to show President Obama's foreign policy toward North Korea. Your wish is my command. . .

 

Sources:

 

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_other.aspx#nk ==> Look for North Korea sanctions and Executive Order 13722 by President Obama in March 2016.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35828831

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/world/asia/obama-puts-sanctions-on-north-korean-leaders-for-human-rights-abuse.html

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-korea-north-china-bank/bank-of-china-closes-account-of-key-north-korean-bank-idUSBRE9460CX20130507

 

This closing of North Korean foreign trade accounts was completed by China in conjunction with the economic sanctions President Obama had issued on North Korea.

 

Please review Executive Order 13722.

 

Source:

https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=791357 ==> Notice that it has President Obama saying how he is responding to North Korea's nuclear and missile program.

 

I think the links above along with the closing of the North Korean bank accounts at the Bank of China, LTD clearly show that Obama was actively aware and implementing policies and issuing executive orders to address North Korea's provocative acts and nuclear testing.

 

The North Korea sanctions is a NOT a new thing that President Trump is doing; it's a continuation of some of President Obama's previous foreign policy strategies.

 

The difference this time is the guy in front of the White House microphone is a mythic Anglo Saxon tragic hero who is more appealing to certain members of the tribal American electorate.

[RedSpawn]

Do you really think that Obama's efforts regarding North Korea are of the same magnitude as Trump's efforts?

 

I do not remember Obama sending 3 aircraft carrier groups to the North Korean area. I do not remember Obama telling the other countries that if you do business with North Korea you don't get to do business with the US. I don't remember Obama going on an international tour of several Asian countries and at each stop specifically requesting help to reign in North Korea.

 

Do you?

You are correct. President Obama didn't practice full-on gunboat diplomacy or cowboy diplomacy on North Korea. He had a much cooler head than to practice jingoism as well.

 

Might doesn't always make right.

 

Time will tell if Obama's strategy was a vice or a virtue when it's compared to Trump's mercurial, ego-driven approach.

 

The jury is still out (but make sure you review the links in the post above to see what specific actions Obama took).

 

President Obama was not as hawkish as President Trump because he wanted to find a diplomatic solution to this conundrum than a military one.

[Winstonm]

This article from The Atlantic starts to peel back the curtain in Oz.

 

WikiLeaks didn’t respond to that message, but on October 12, 2016, the account again messaged Trump Jr. “Hey Donald, great to see you and your dad talking about our publications,” WikiLeaks wrote. (At a rally on October 10, Donald Trump had proclaimed, “I love WikiLeaks!”)

 

“Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.”

 

Trump Jr. did not respond to this message. But just 15 minutes after it was sent, as The Wall Street Journal’s Byron Tau pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweeted, “Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”

 

Russia-Wikileaks-Trump

 

Will the circle be unbroken, by and by, Lord, by and by...

[RedSpawn]

This article from The Atlantic starts to peel back the curtain in Oz.

 

Russia-Wikileaks-Trump

 

Will the circle be unbroken, by and by, Lord, by and by...

Good question.

 

Winston, the United States is marshalling any and all resources to get to the bottom of this Russian collusion which could have associations with Assange (Wikileaks) who is in his 3rd year of political asylum at an Ecuadorean embassy.

 

Our Department of Justice wants to hold Assange and the Trump administration accountable for very embarrassing leaks under federal espionage laws; yet I don't see the same level of commitment to hold the powerful and all-seeing intelligence agencies accountable for the civil liberties violations documented and revealed in the mouthwatering Wikileaks.

 

Is there a compelling reason for this type of selective justice? Are we to ignore the tasty fruit that awakens us to the inconvenient truth of the violations of our privacy and our electronic intellectual property simply because it comes from a poisonous Wikileaks tree?

 

Uncle Sam is a nosy family member!

[kenberg]

This article from The Atlantic starts to peel back the curtain in Oz.

 

 

 

Russia-Wikileaks-Trump

 

Will the circle be unbroken, by and by, Lord, by and by...

 

The first paragraph:\\

Just before the stroke of midnight on September 20, 2016, at the height of last year's presidential election, the WikiLeaks Twitter account sent a private direct message to Donald Trump Jr., the Republican nominee's oldest son and campaign surrogate. "A PAC run anti-Trump site putintrump.org is about to launch," WikiLeaks wrote. "The PAC is a recycled pro-Iraq war PAC. We have guessed the password. It is 'putintrump.' See 'About' for who is behind it. Any comments?" (The site, which has since become a joint project with Mother Jones, was founded by Rob Glaser, a tech entrepreneur, and was funded by Progress for USA Political Action Committee.)

 

Do I understand this correctly? The site name is putintrump.org and WikiLeaks was able to guess the password as putintrump? This goes a long way toward explaining how WikiLeaks was able to hack into things. I'm an old guy, I sometimes get confused by modern technology, but this stupid I am not. Couldn't they at least do lyudmilamelania?

[Winstonm]

The first paragraph:\\

 

Do I understand this correctly? The site name is putintrump.org and WikiLeaks was able to guess the password as putintrump? This goes a long way toward explaining how WikiLeaks was able to hack into things. I'm an old guy, I sometimes get confused by modern technology, but this stupid I am not. Couldn't they at least do lyudmilamelania?

 

I find it odd that from that article this is your takeaway. :blink:

[RedSpawn]

I find it odd that from that article this is your takeaway. :blink:

LOLOLOL!

 

That sand at the mirage is so tasty. . . as refreshing as FIJI® water.

[cherdano]

Do I understand this correctly? The site name is putintrump.org and WikiLeaks was able to guess the password as putintrump? This goes a long way toward explaining how WikiLeaks was able to hack into things. I'm an old guy, I sometimes get confused by modern technology, but this stupid I am not. Couldn't they at least do lyudmilamelania?

 

I think you are misunderstanding something. Wikileads claimed they guessed the password. It's equally possible that they hacked the site and changed the password. Either way, it was a crime to send the password on to Don Jr.

 

As an aside, I am quite surprised that the "radical transparency organisation" WikiLeaks did not publish these communications by themselves. Not.

[RedSpawn]

I find it odd that from that article this is your takeaway. :blink:

I think this Russian collusion story is really about how technology has disrupted the intelligence agencies ability to control the narrative (propaganda) and thus the public opinion in our elections. Radical transparency organizations can hack network systems and publish titillating information overnight that sway public opinion and instantly change the poll leader.

 

This is worrisome on principle alone. But, it is even more worrisome in a Presidential campaign financing system where the victor and the loser are beholden to answering to powerful, gargantuan donors when a surprise disrupts this well-oiled political machine.

 

Trump won and that, my friend, was an unpleasant surprise.

 

The Washington elite could not digest this new political reality. They had to admit to their comrades and dismayed donors that their political analysis was wrong and deeply flawed. And there's two things politicians don't like to do: (1) Publicly acknowledge their mistakes and (2) Pi$$ off big donors! It was a new experience for some of the Washington elite and as expected, they realized they weren't in Kansas anymore and became determined to find out how they got played and who perpetrated this fraud.

 

Enter political kabuki theatre.

 

Our government didn't take this election meddling threat THAT seriously until HRC loss and conceded defeat. Trump became President-Elect and leader of THE FORGOTTEN, THE DOWNTRODDEN, THE UNHEARD, THE DISILLUSIONED, and yes, even THE DEPLORABLES. Trump's ascension to power elevated the national security threat assessment for election meddling to high as hell. It was only then that our federal agencies and the 4th estate formally declared that a miscarriage of justice had occurred.

 

Convenient timing for such collective outrage.

 

A seemingly rigged federal election produced an unplanned outcome. Who would've thought? Clearly, the powerful wizards of Washington were caught off guard when their magic didn't work this season. They had no choice but to pull almost every lever of the United States government to identify the bad actors.

 

That's what Congress spent all of 2017 unapologetically doing. Congress hasn't passed many meaningful bills this year but has provided an excellent platform of eye candy hearings over the Russia collusion story line. Almost all of the hearings were fit for public consumption.

 

Sadly, we are in a perpetual state of reactionary leadership and ineffectual triage management. And that back story won't receive much attention because it isn't as sexy as espionage overtures.

 

Trump's ascension to the Office of the President was a rude awakening for the Washington elite. They went all in on a post-Cold War national retail politics strategy and that approach failed BIG TIME. And these bought politicians better have some damn good answers for their huge political donors who wasted all of that precious money on a losing Presidential candidate.

 

In response, Washington declared that there was an enemy of the state that had infiltrated our election system and attacked the foundation of our democracy.

 

And now that enemy is Wikileaks which is an alleged front for the Russian government. Fascinating...

 

All I need to do now is find my ruby red shoes, put them on, close my eyes, and click my heels three times and repeat, "There's no place like home!"