Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[ldrews]

:P

 

A tad more - what gets to me the most is the 62 million who voted for Trump and the 40% who still support him. And that the Republicans to be supported. that they continue to hold all branches of government hostage, and their supporters are intent on forming an evangelical theocracy.

 

The Republicans are able to hold the government hostage only because they are winning the elections. The solution is obvious, Democrats have to start winning more elections at both the state and federal levels. That doesn't seem to be happening. What do you think it takes for the Democrats to be more successful?

[jjbrr]

:P

 

A tad more - what gets to me the most is the 62 million who voted for Trump and the 40% who still support him. And that the Republicans to be supported. that they continue to hold all branches of government hostage, and their supporters are intent on forming an evangelical theocracy.

 

<insert aaron rodgers meme>

 

They're holding America hostage, unfortunately. I'm hopeful for 2018, though. Even Texas is much more purple than most realize, assuming everyone gets out to vote.

[Winstonm]

<insert aaron rodgers meme>

 

They're holding America hostage, unfortunately. I'm hopeful for 2018, though. Even Texas is much more purple than most realize, assuming everyone gets out to vote.

 

FYP <_<

[RedSpawn]

The Republicans are able to hold the government hostage only because they are winning the elections. The solution is obvious, Democrats have to start winning more elections at both the state and federal levels. That doesn't seem to be happening. What do you think it takes for the Democrats to be more successful?

Better gerrymandering at the state and local level is a good start!

[RedSpawn]

I am no longer certain that this country is worth saving or living in. To wit: (emphasis added)

Why do you sound so surprised that politicians can rise up against a "tyrannical" Supreme Court that sanctions same-sex marriage which is an affront to the established mores and principles of a Bible Belt South? Didn't a Georgia governor in 1956 suggest that this out of control court would prohibit states from outlawing mixed race marriages? The nerve. . .

[y66]

Fascinating column by David Brooks today: The Coming War on Business:

 

The only time I saw Sam Francis face-to-face — in the Washington Times cafeteria sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s — I thought he was a crank, but it’s clear now that he was at that moment becoming one of the most prescient writers of the past 50 years. There’s very little Donald Trump has done or said that Francis didn’t champion a quarter century ago.

 

In a series of essays for conservative magazines like Chronicles, Francis hammered home three key insights. The first was that globalization was screwing Middle America. The Cold War had just ended, capitalism seemed triumphant and the Clinton years seemed to be an era of broad prosperity. But Francis stressed that the service economy was ruining small farms and taking jobs from the working class.

 

His second insight was that the Republican and conservative establishment did not understand what was happening. He railed against the pro-business “Economic Men” who thought G.D.P. growth could solve the nation’s problems, and the Washington Republicans, who he thought were infected with the values of the educated elites.

 

In 1991, when his political mentor, Pat Buchanan, was contemplating a presidential bid, Francis told him to break with the conservative movement. “These people are defunct,” Francis told Buchanan. “Go to New Hampshire and call yourself a patriot, a nationalist, an America Firster, but don’t even use the word ‘conservative.’ It doesn’t mean anything anymore.”

 

His third insight was that politics was no longer about left versus right. Instead, a series of smaller conflicts — religious versus secular, nationalist versus globalist, white versus nonwhite — were all merging into a larger polarity, ruling class versus Middle America.

[hrothgar]

Personally, I found the following quote more telling

 

Francis’ thought was infected by the same cancer that may destroy Trumpism. Francis was a racist. His friends and allies counseled him not to express his racist views openly, but people like that always go there, sooner or later.

 

The Civil War was an open wound for many in his circle, and in 1994 Francis told a conference, “The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”

[Winstonm]

Why do you sound so surprised that politicians can rise up against a "tyrannical" Supreme Court that sanctions same-sex marriage which is an affront to the mores and principles of a Bible Belt South? Didn't a Georgia governor in 1956 suggest that this out of control court would prohibit states from outlawing mixed race marriages? The nerve. . .

 

I am not surprised. I am sick of the influence of religions and dealing with the influence of blind, loyalist adherents outside the walls of the personal prisons their beliefs build and guard.

[jjbrr]

FYP <_<

 

 

[ldrews]

Better gerrymandering at the state and local level is a good start!

 

I agree but that requires the Democrats to actually win more elections at the state level. Again, something that isn't happening.

[Winstonm]

What is the upside for Trump to do this?

 

President Trump continued his efforts to belittle accusations of Russian meddling in the 2016 election on Friday, turning to the latest set of charges, involving targeted political ads placed on Facebook by accounts linked to the Kremlin.

 

“The Russia hoax continues, now it’s ads on Facebook,” Trump wrote on Twitter

 

This is proven, documented evidence of Russian interference. How can an American president deny it or not do anything to try to prevent it from happening again?

 

Deplorable? That must be Dante's level of hell for Trump supporters.

[RedSpawn]

I agree but that requires the Democrats to actually win more elections at the state level. Again, something that isn't happening.

True. Then again, there is the 2020 census to get that gerrymandering just right. . . but it's all about legislative control and right now, the Republicans have lots of it.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/06/republicans-and-democrats-both-try-to-gerrymander-but-only-one-of-them-is-any-good-at-it/?utm_term=.f13062ba18eb

[ldrews]

True. Then again, there is the 2020 census to get that gerrymandering just right. . . but it's all about legislative control and right now, the Republicans have lots of it.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/06/republicans-and-democrats-both-try-to-gerrymander-but-only-one-of-them-is-any-good-at-it/?utm_term=.f13062ba18eb

 

So then the question is: Why are the Democrats doing so poorly at the state level? And what do they need to do to reverse that situation?

[Winstonm]

If you read this, you quickly form the conclusion that only lunatics and WWE fans - but I repeat myself - can still be supporting Donald Trump for anything.

[ldrews]

If you read this, you quickly form the conclusion that only lunatics and WWE fans - but I repeat myself - can still be supporting Donald Trump for anything.

 

OMG, are you still reading the Washington Post? No wonder you have the ideas that you do.

[cherdano]

OMG, are you still reading the Washington Post? No wonder you have the ideas that you do.

So what news sources does grumpy Larry consider reliable?

[Winstonm]

So what news sources does grumpy Larry consider reliable?

 

Archie and Jughead, Hannity, and Breitbart would be my top three guesses.

 

From a genuine source:

 

“Believe me, folks,” he said. “The wall is happening.”

 

Trump said that there’s already a wall along the border and that the administration is renovating it over the next six to seven months to be “pristine, perfect, just as good as new, although we may go a little bit higher than that, but that’s okay.” And Trump said that he’s collecting samples for building a new wall that’s “see through.”

 

“If you can’t have vision through it, you don’t know who’s on the other side,” Trump said, later explaining that building is what he does best, though he’s also pretty good at this politics thing.

 

Without a see-through wall, a criminal in “wonderful, wonderful” Mexico could use a catapult to throw “a hundred pounds of drugs” over the wall.

 

“And it lands, and it hits somebody in the head — you don’t even know they’re there,” Trump said. “Believe it or not, this is the kind of stuff that happens. So you need to have a great wall, but it has to be see-through.”

 

I feel safer already.

[cherdano]

Trump was the "bird" that was given to the established order. He may be a joke, but he is your joke for the next 3 years.

So Al_U_Card claims that Trump voters put a joke in charge of the most powerful military of the world, including essentially unfiltered command over its nuclear weapons, in order to show the "bird" to the established order.

 

And allegedly it is the coastal elitist democrats who are condescending to Trump voters. But what is more condescending than claiming that they decided one of their most consequential votes of their lifetime just so that they could throw a tantrum?

[Winstonm]

Department of Homeland Security announces that election systems in 21 states were attacked by Russian hackers but few were breached. Question: which states were breached and what was the result of the breaches?

[barmar]

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

 

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

[RedSpawn]

Department of Homeland Security announces that election systems in 21 states were attacked by Russian hackers but few were breached. Question: which states were breached and what was the result of the breaches

Yes and when did they discover these attacks and what countermeasures, if any, were taken as a result of this finding?

 

For example, did the Department of Homeland Security's delayed designation of state elections' information technology and communication systems as "critical federal election infrastructure" on 01/06/17 have anything to do with these 21 attacks? See link below.

 

Ambiguity can be hazardous to the body politic and quite advantageous for the PTB.

 

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/06/statement-secretary-johnson-designation-election-infrastructure-critical

[Winstonm]

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

 

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

 

It seems to me that people of Christian faith are more susceptible to con than others, as they are conditioned to believe based on the ability of speakers to tap into their emotions; is it mere coincidence that Trump did so well among whites and evangelicals - he hit all the right notes, the religious con and the racist con.

[RedSpawn]

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

 

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

Barmar, you have opened up a bevy of issues:

 

1. 
    
   
2. America has historically used propaganda rather successfully to fool lower-income and lower class whites into believing that the political platforms were about them when the platforms were really about providing big businesses and "special interests" 1st class access to her institutions (legal, government, political, and educational).
   
3. When America first was born, we had to worry about busting up trusts to promote the development of capital markets; to stop anti-competitive behavior; and to stop the consolidation of power into a few enterprising families who owned controlling interests in certain industries (e.g. cotton, tobacco, whisky, peanut, steel, oil & gas, utilities).
   We also focused very heavily on the development of the "public good" such as interstate highways, railroads and national defense. The body politic wanted these public goods too as it promotes jobs, interstate commerce and public safety, but their creation was to fundamentally address a business concern which would eventually trickle down to benefit the body politic and "the masses".
   
4. Poor whites have constantly thought if they sided with the "business" political party that they would eventually reap the prosperity enjoyed by the upper class. If they would remain patient, they might eventually obtain and retain respectable stable employment and migrate from living in a trailer park to detached housing in a safe, affordable community.
    
   

But that American dream deferred has become a dream denied. In an unforgiving and uncompromising global economy, the opportunities for greatness in America are slipping further and further away from their grasp. Politicians are no longer pied pipers who can easily play melodic or hypnotic tunes with their magical flutes to woo the body politic into unquestioned submission. The average American knows we aren't in Kansas anymore, they just may not know why!

 

A lot of poor whites are realizing that they and generations before them have been taken for granted and exploited for political gain. They smell a rat. And enter stage left, snake oil salesman who has just the magical flute to lure the rats away from the village and allegedly drain the swamp.

 

Problem is Trump is both the cause and cure.

[Winstonm]

Perhaps someone can help me form this correctly.

 

Trump reminds me of a class of person I have run into time to time throughout my life who sits in the back of the room when an invited guest comes in to talk about something considered serious, and he exchanges with like-minded others condescending nudges while either rolling his eyes, snickering, or in other ways showing smug disinterest - displaying obvious disdain and feigning superiority. The critical part of this is the "like-minded others" as his ability to interact on a broad scale is diminished by his disdain - so in the end all he can do is nudge and roll his eyes with his cohorts.

 

I've never been able to categorize this type of behavior succinctly. Perhaps Trumpian?

[y66]

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

 

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

The problem we have now is that the inmates are running all 3 branches of the asylum and 68 state legislative chambers.