Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[Al_U_Card]

Initially, I would not have thought it to be an important issue (election-wise) but it seems that some illegals fearing a Trump policy that would see them deported might sway them to vote, especially if somehow they were convinced that even the President said it was something they should consider. (Not that he did, but just the confusion between english-speakers regarding that interview might be ambiguous enough for the unscrupulous to convince non-english speakers to give it a try because the alternative would be the same (deportation) anyway.

OTOH since Hillary supporters thought they would win easily, there wasn't any need for that particular kind of skullduggery.

[Winstonm]

You mean this guy? Jonathan Ferguson

 

 

No.

 

You outed the crazoid. Well done!

[hrothgar]

You mean this guy? Jonathan Ferguson

 

 

Nice find!

 

Lots as if Jon is retweeting a lot of @JamesEdwardsTPC

 

The Political Cesspool is a weekly far-right talk radio show founded by Tennessean political activist James Edwards and syndicated by the organizations Liberty News Radio Network and Accent Radio Network in the United States. First broadcast in October 2004 twice a week from radio station WMQM, per Edwards it has been simulcast on Stormfront Radio, a service of the white nationalist Stormfront website[4] and as of 2011 is broadcast on Saturday nights on WLRM, a Christian radio station in Millington, Tennessee. Its sponsors include the white separatist Council of Conservative Citizens and the Institute for Historical Review, a Holocaust denial group.[5]

 

According to its statement of principles, the show stands for the "Dispossessed Majority" and represents "a philosophy that is pro-White."[6] It has attracted criticism—including from The Nation, The New Republic, the Stephen Roth Institute, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), and the Anti-Defamation League—for its promotion of anti-semitic, white nationalist and white supremacist views.[7][8] According to the SPLC, the show has featured a "Who's Who of the radical right", including members of the Ku Klux Klan; they say Edwards has probably done more than anyone in America to promote neo-Nazis, Holocaust deniers and other extremists

 

He is also tweeting that folks should deliberately place pork in the halal section of supermarkets noting that this will force the owners to discard all of the food...

[Elianna]

I have been an immigrant myself for the last 10 years (in two different countries).

 

I can promise you that almost no non-citizens voted in the US election. The reason is simple. As a non-citizen, you are much more afraid of committing felonies. You have fewer rights in any legal proceedings. And you have quite a bit more to lose - even minor infractions could cause you to get deported. (Or just not get your VISA renewed.) AKA having to move away from the place where you work, where you have friends, etc.

 

Indeed, the whole premise of the question is that even citizens may be afraid of voting - if they have family, or friends with the same address who are not, and who may not have a legal right to stay in the US. This fear may sound irrational to you. But to me (again, having been an immigrant myself for 10 years) it seems much more plausible than trying to vote illegally as a non-citizen (or, for heaven's sake, as an undocumented immigrant). Why risk your existence for a single vote that almost certainly won't change the outcome?

 

Besides that, they would have had to register to vote, too. People can't just wake up on the day of an election and decide to vote for the first time.

 

And I hear people say that they don't want to register to vote because they don't want to be called to jury duty (which, btw, is not the case anymore); It sounds very plausible to me that people would be afraid that having their (DOCUMENTED) relatives register to vote would bring attention to themselves.

[y66]

From Trump and Clinton Aides Clash During Election Forum:

 

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — Top strategists from the campaigns of Donald J. Trump and Hillary Clinton, interrupting each other and sometimes raising their voices, engaged in an angry debate on Thursday about how Mr. Trump pulled off his upset victory.

 

Emotions were still raw at the campaign post-mortem, held at Harvard’s Institute of Politics, particularly over the influence of Stephen K. Bannon, who left Breitbart News — which he has called a “platform” for the white nationalist alt-right — to help run Mr. Trump’s campaign.

 

With campaign managers and pollsters talking over one another and a large crowd of campaign veterans from the news media looking on, Ms. Palmieri said her proudest moment from the campaign was a speech Mrs. Clinton gave in Nevada condemning the alt-right.

 

“I would rather lose than win the way you guys did,” Ms. Palmieri said.

 

Kellyanne Conway, who was Mr. Trump’s third and final campaign manager, asked, “How exactly did we win?”

 

She answered her own question: by connecting with voters in places “where we were either ignored or mocked roundly by most of the people in this room.”

 

“Do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform?” Ms. Conway asked Ms. Palmieri. “You’re going to look me in the face and tell me that?”

 

Ms. Conway went on, pointing out Mrs. Clinton’s failings. “Do you think you could have just had a decent message for the white working-class voters?” she asked the Clinton advisers. “How about it’s Hillary Clinton, she doesn’t connect with people? How about they had nothing in common with her? How about you had no economic message?”

Earth to Jennifer P: Condemning the alt-right was not more important than figuring out how to win the white working-class vote. Come on.

[PassedOut]

Nice find!

 

Lots as if Jon is retweeting a lot of @JamesEdwardsTPC

 

He is also tweeting that folks should deliberately place pork in the halal section of supermarkets noting that this will force the owners to discard all of the food...

Yes, I saw those too. Reading down those tweets is like watching people swim in a cesspool. And the president-elect in there swimming with them.

:(

[Winstonm]

Yes, I saw those too. Reading down those tweets is like watching people swim in a cesspool. And the president-elect in there swimming with them.

:(

 

These people, from the top down, are extremely dangerous because they have a tribal mentality and they are spiteful and vindictive.

[hrothgar]

I would like to make a serious request that the moderators ban jonottawa from the BBOForums

 

I argue that any/all of the content that he is posting is equivalent to advertising.

As such, it should be removed and the account should be banned.

 

1. It has been years since Jon has made any posts on the forums that are related to bridge

2. Jon's twitter feed demonstrates that his primary reason for posting is an attempt to gain credibility in other forums

 

Consider the following example post from Jon's Twitter account

 

https://twitter.com/jonottawa/status/804069160296873984

 

He's not posting on the BBOForums because he want's to interact with the individuals here.

Rather, he's posting ridiculous abuse in an attempt to promote himself to his cretinous Twittter followers

 

Frankly, I don't see the difference between this and advertising penis enlargement pills

[Al_U_Card]

Deplorables, meet despicables.

[kenberg]

I have been an immigrant myself for the last 10 years (in two different countries).

 

I can promise you that almost no non-citizens voted in the US election. The reason is simple. As a non-citizen, you are much more afraid of committing felonies. You have fewer rights in any legal proceedings. And you have quite a bit more to lose - even minor infractions could cause you to get deported. (Or just not get your VISA renewed.) AKA having to move away from the place where you work, where you have friends, etc.

 

Indeed, the whole premise of the question is that even citizens may be afraid of voting - if they have family, or friends with the same address who are not, and who may not have a legal right to stay in the US. This fear may sound irrational to you. But to me (again, having been an immigrant myself for 10 years) it seems much more plausible than trying to vote illegally as a non-citizen (or, for heaven's sake, as an undocumented immigrant). Why risk your existence for a single vote that almost certainly won't change the outcome?

 

A while back I agreed with winston,, then I agreed with hrothgar, now I agree with you. I may have to rethink.

 

Anyway, of course this is right. If I were illegally anywhere, I would keep a low profile. If I snuck into a movie theater without paying I would not complain to the management about the popcorn. It just boggles the mind to try to imagine large scale voting fraud of the sort often described. Who would do it and why? Almost certainly he would expect to be paid. Do you put an ad in the paper? It's nuts on the face of it.

 

Now using technology to commit fraud, voter fraud, banking fraud, what have you, might be another matter. I hope we are on top of that. Proper precaution should be a very bipartisan, or pan-partisan, ideal.

 

But the immediate stuff is worse. If Donald trump had any sense of responsibility, and if there were any grounds for concern, I would expect that he would quietly speak to a modest sized group of individuals of extensive experience and rock solid integrity. He would form a commission, he would come before the country with clear details of why the commission iis needed and what its charter is. If there is any there there, this would have wide support. Instead he tweets.

 

I am worried, but to a large extent I am simply embarrassed by our choice of a president.

[Zelandakh]

Frankly, I don't see the difference between this and advertising penis enlargement pills

Penis enlargement pills don't encourage hate and intolerance.

 

Seriously, I cannot believe you guys are still feeding the troll. I stopped about 20 pages back It is only a shame that his sh!te has made this thread almost unreadable. Look back objectively at the way this thread has deteriorated and you have to admit the trolling won out here. Let's please make sure this is the only thread that gets ruined.

[andrei]

Deplorables, meet despicables.

 

Despicables, aren't they funny?

This thread has provided so much entertainment since election night.

 

Now I have to go and delete all my profiles, the Internet police is out, looking.

[Al_U_Card]

Despicables, aren't they funny?

This thread has provided so much entertainment since election night.

 

Now I have to go and delete all my profiles, the Internet police is out, looking.

Not a laughing matter. Just sad.

[hrothgar]

Now I have to go and delete all my profiles, the Internet police is out, looking.

 

Its a crying shame that people don't treat you the same after they figure out that you're a neo-Nazi...

[alok c]

Penis enlargement pills don't encourage hate and intolerance.

 

Seriously, I cannot believe you guys are still feeding the troll. I stopped about 20 pages back It is only a shame that his sh!te has made this thread almost unreadable. Look back objectively at the way this thread has deteriorated and you have to admit the trolling won out here. Let's please make sure this is the only thread that gets ruined.

I cautioned you people earlier :)

[mikeh]

Despicables, aren't they funny?

This thread has provided so much entertainment since election night.

 

Now I have to go and delete all my profiles, the Internet police is out, looking.

Hmmm

 

A raving lunatic, who boasted that his posts here were intended for some other 'audience' was exposed as a neo-Nazi twitter asshole, with clear symptoms of mental illness.

 

Andrei's response to this exposure is fear that his identity will be found out as well?

 

Most of us here have no worries about being known.

 

I wonder why Andrei is so worried?

 

Hmmm

 

Birds of a feather, perhaps?

[Phil]

Its a crying shame that people don't treat you the same after they figure out that you're a neo-Nazi...

 

Well, it certainly changes the conversation during holiday dinners!

[hrothgar]

Penis enlargement pills don't encourage hate and intolerance.

 

 

Yeah, but the BBO moderators don't take actions regarding hate and intolerance.

The do act wrt advertizing...

[andrei]

Hmmm

 

A raving lunatic, who boasted that his posts here were intended for some other 'audience' was exposed as a neo-Nazi twitter asshole, with clear symptoms of mental illness.

 

Andrei's response to this exposure is fear that his identity will be found out as well?

 

Most of us here have no worries about being known.

 

I wonder why Andrei is so worried?

 

Hmmm

 

Birds of a feather, perhaps?

 

Worried, huh?

You guys really crack me up.

[diana_eva]

Yeah, but the BBO moderators don't take actions regarding hate and intolerance.

The do act wrt advertizing...

 

Actually BBF TOS specify no hateful material:

 

1. You will not engage in conduct or post any material that is defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law. Doing any of these is a good way to find yourself barred from the forums. The board should never go above PG-rated for any reason.

[Winstonm]

Btw, I admit that I have more concern about these wingnuts than about any Muslim violence.

[Kaitlyn S]

I would like to make a serious request that the moderators ban jonottawa from the BBOForums

 

I argue that any/all of the content that he is posting is equivalent to advertising.

As such, it should be removed and the account should be banned.

 

1. It has been years since Jon has made any posts on the forums that are related to bridge

2. Jon's twitter feed demonstrates that his primary reason for posting is an attempt to gain credibility in other forums

 

Consider the following example post from Jon's Twitter account

 

https://twitter.com/...069160296873984

 

He's not posting on the BBOForums because he want's to interact with the individuals here.

Rather, he's posting ridiculous abuse in an attempt to promote himself to his cretinous Twittter followers

 

Frankly, I don't see the difference between this and advertising penis enlargement pills

I see the difference because I see Jon's content as being the (almost) lone voice in the wilderness.

 

On BGG, where the Water Cooler equivalent is about 2/3 liberal; 1/3 conservative, Jon's posts would be welcomed by some and expanded upon. While 2/3 of the users would try to dis him as you do here, 1/3 of the users will not only agree with much of his content but help find articles to back him up.

 

However, to call his content "advertising" seems a bit of a stretch. To most rational people, for him to be advertising, he would need to hope to find somebody on this site to purchase a product or service for him or to do work for him. As far as I know, he's not trying to do that.

 

Because most of you are like minded, you all think his posts are nonsense and your posts are all truth-based because you are the knowledgeable ones. If you were on BGG with the same posts, you would get a lot of agreement, but 1/3 of the users would call you the uninformed and brainwashed liberals and would post to articles to back themselves up. And many of them are better at it than I am (not too hard :) ) and more intelligent and more educated than I am.

 

My belief is that if Jon isn't harming anybody that he is entitled to free speech. He hasn't threatened anybody and hasn't intentionally tried to hurt anybody. He hasn't used derogatory words like n***** (to my knowledge, the only time I've seen that word is when the left-leaning posters are talking to me.) He is not advocating Nazism, fascism, or the mantra of the KKK. Most of you strongly disagree with him but that is no reason not to let him speak.

 

Now, his freedom of speech does not give him the right to make you listen. You can choose to ignore any posts of his or in which he is quoted. However, he is very adamant that he is right. You and your posse are also very adamant that you are right. While I tend to agree with more of what he says than what you say politically, I am questioning some of my beliefs so I'm not adamant. But what I believe is irrelevant, but what is relevant is that the Water Cooler is not a safe space for snowflakes None of you seem like the snowflakes that are proliferating our college campuses so I will respectfully request that you don't try to emulate them. If you can honestly show that he is in fact using this site to advertise to readers of this forum, then I will reconsider the position shown in this post.

[ggwhiz]

Actually BBF TOS specify no hateful material:

 

[/size][/color]

 

I'm not sure if the outside twitter nonsense qualifies or if there is enough in this thread...... but it's on my wish list.

[PassedOut]

Now, his freedom of speech does not give him the right to make you listen. You can choose to ignore any posts of his or in which he is quoted. However, he is very adamant that he is right. You and your posse are also very adamant that you are right. While I tend to agree with more of what he says than what you say politically, I am questioning some of my beliefs so I'm not adamant.

There is something seriously wrong with anyone who is adamant that large numbers of illegals voted last month, and if you give that some thought, you'll realize that to be true. (There's no evidence for it, and it flies in the face of common sense.) When something like that happens, it makes sense to be suspicious of that source in the future, no matter how adamant.

[PassedOut]

The US isn't alone in facing this problem: Fake news: an insidious trend that's fast becoming a global problem

 

The German political mainstream is getting increasingly nervous about the effect that the rise of fake news might have on federal elections next autumn. Fake news and Russian interference – either by influencing fake news sites, or by hacking or misinformation – are viewed as a serious threat to the democratic process, particularly since the US presidential elections.

 

From rumours that Merkel was in the east German secret police, the Stasi, to others suggesting she is Adolf Hitler’s daughter, Germans are also proving themselves susceptible to false information.

 

The most blatant example of fake news to hit Germany so far occurred earlier this year over reports that a 13-year-old girl of Russian origin, known as Lisa F, had been raped in Berlin by refugees from the Middle East. The story received extensive coverage on Russian and German media who reported the allegations that she had been abducted on her way to school and gang-raped. The attack turned out to have been fabricated, as Berlin’s chief of police was quick to point out. According to Berlin’s public prosecutor’s office the girl had spent 30 hours with people known to her, and a medical examination proved she had not been raped.

 

But having been shared widely on social media and through Russian news sites, hundreds took to the streets to protest at the “attack”, along with far right and anti-Islam groups. Sergey Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister went so far as to accuse Merkel’s government of “sweeping the case under the carpet”, heightening suspicions in Berlin that the Kremlin was deliberately trying to cause trouble.

The article goes on to discuss fake news problems in France, Myanmar, Italy, China, Brazil, Australia, and India.

 

I don't think that the answer is to suppress this. Instead, we need to find a way to challenge this stuff immediately and dramatically, much the same way that smart political campaigns respond to negative ads rather than assuming that folks will see through any ridiculous falsehoods.