Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[PassedOut]

Considering the protests about the result of this election, it's interesting to recall Trump's comments after Obama's reelection: In 2012, Donald Trump suggested that the result was rigged. He warned of the same thing this week.

 

The night Mitt Romney lost, Donald Trump tweeted.

 

About 20 minutes after polls closed on the West Coast, television networks called the election for President Obama. Like Karl Rove, who'd just been told that Fox News had called Ohio against the Republican, Trump was incredulous. "He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election," he tweeted. "We should have a revolution in this country!"

 

Over the next half hour, he continued.

 

The phoney electoral college made a laughing stock out of our nation. The loser one! We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

 

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us. More votes equals a loss ... revolution! This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble ... like never before. The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

The tweets about "revolution" were deleted that night. Most of the others, including the one about how "we can't let this happen," remain.

 

Trump's assertion that Obama had "lost the popular vote by a lot" was incorrect, though by 11 p.m., the votes had not all been counted yet. In the end, Obama won by about 5 million votes.

And here we are.

[y66]

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) published this open letter to President-Elect Trump yesterday. Let's hope he hears the message and make sure this message does not get lost in the flood of messages to come.

[olegru]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/11/09/colleges-try-to-comfort-students-upset-by-trump-victory/

 

Dozens of students at Cornell University gathered on a major campus thoroughfare for a “cry-in” to mourn the results of the 2016 presidential election Wednesday, with school staff providing tissues and hot chocolate.

At Tufts University, arts and crafts were on offer. And the University of Kansas reminded students via social media of the therapy dogs available for comfort every other Wednesday.

There was a steady flow of students entering Ms. Boynton’s office Wednesday. They spent the day sprawled around the center, playing with Play-Doh and coloring in coloring books, as they sought comfort and distraction.

Alan Peel, an astronomy lecturer at the University of Maryland canceled a test

Morgan Polikoff, a professor at the University of Southern California Rossier School of Education, also canceled his Wednesday class. He told the 11 students in his Ph.D. statistics course on election night that they didn’t have to come if they didn’t want to

 

Sorry, I throw out pacifiers since my kids turn 3. But I still have couple of teddy bears to donate for heart-broken college students.

[Winstonm]

In an incredibly ironic twist, the election of Donald Trump means in essence that the Arab Spring came to America.

[y66]

here has been talk of what can be done and what cannot. I favor this. That does not mean, not at all, that I am getting comfortable with the result. But discussing how to go forward is better than shutting down an Interstate as some did in my home state of Minnesota.

I appreciate the thoughtful comments of many WC posters who may not play bridge like Hamman but who, I think, totally get his thought process which starts with asking what the hell is going on which is an antidote to smugness and a good first step in forming a plan. Yammering is not thinking and spending precious energy engaging (?) with smug yammerers is not a winning strategy. kenberg observed near the beginning of this thread and in many other threads that taking white blue collar workers for granted is not a winning strategy either. For all of his faults, Trump understood this and he exploited this masterfully. Not suggesting Trump got this idea from kenberg or that they have anything else in common.

[Al_U_Card]

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) published this open letter to President-Elect Trump yesterday. Let's hope he hears the message and make sure this message does not get lost in the flood of messages to come.

Nice example of the problem with holding a smug, sanctimonious position like any type of elite....

 

removing the dross of both pages of that letter leaves the only relevant part:

 

"The campaign is over, and real responsibilities lie ahead. For all our sakes, I wish you well."

[Vampyr]

I appreciate the thoughtful comments of many WC posters who may not play bridge like Hamman but who, I think, totally get his thought process which starts with asking what the hell is going on which is an antidote to smugness and a good first step in forming a plan. Yammering is not thinking and spending precious energy engaging (?) with smug yammerers is not a winning strategy. kenberg observed near the beginning of this thread and in many other threads that taking white blue collar workers for granted is not a winning strategy either. For all of his faults, Trump understood this and he exploited this masterfully. Not suggesting Trump got this idea from kenberg or that they have anything else in common.

 

Appealing to intelligent, well-educated people was easy and natural for Clinton. I think you want to win the minds of those people, and the hearts of many ot the others. Perhaps Clinton needed to employ some meaningless, feel-good rhetoric. But I think that this would have been hard for her, especially when it comes to sounding sincere.

[barmar]

But discussing how to go forward is better than shutting down an Interstate as some did in my home state of Minnesota.

Or threatening to run to Canada.

[kenberg]

I appreciate the thoughtful comments of many WC posters who may not play bridge like Hamman but who, I think, totally get his thought process which starts with asking what the hell is going on which is an antidote to smugness and a good first step in forming a plan. Yammering is not thinking and spending precious energy engaging (?) with smug yammerers is not a winning strategy. kenberg observed near the beginning of this thread and in many other threads that taking white blue collar workers for granted is not a winning strategy either. For all of his faults, Trump understood this and he exploited this masterfully. Not suggesting Trump got this idea from kenberg or that they have anything else in common.

 

Donny, Vlad and I all planned this out over vodka.

 

I have been thinking a bit. The basket of deplorables was, in one sense, much ado about nothing. If someone wanted to insult me and the best s/he could do is to call me and my friends a basket of deplorables it would be pretty pathetic. The problem rather was that it was dismissive. "We don't care about you" is the message that, intended or not, came through.

 

Another thought, loosely connected. I see that Clinton got 88% of the Black vote, often referred to as "only" 88%. Somewhere I saw that she got 51% of the union vote. usually not referred to as "only" 51%. And probably that 51% could be usefully broken into parts. Teacher unions have, presumably entirely, college educated members. No doubt some machinists have been to college, but it is not a requirement. If we looked only at the union vote in professions that did not require college education, I can well imagine the percentage would be considerably less than 51%.

 

A thought experiment: imagine an African-American machinist. For whom does he vote? " I am black, so Hillary it is"? Or "I'm a machinist with a wife, kids and a mortgage, same as the white guy standing next to me, I am going for Trump, just as he is"? I don't know the answer, but 88%, while large, is not 100%. Maybe this guy is part of the 12%.

 

And just for amusement: I was parking to go into a store, the BBC portion of the morning NPR stuff was on, and they were interviewing a guy in western Pennsylvania about Trump stuff. I found it interesting so I stayed in the car to listen. At the end, the interviewer, a guy if I remember correctly, thanked him for his fascinating insights.

Now it has been a long time since I grew up in my working class neighborhood, but back in the 1940s-1950s no guy ever called another guy fascinating.. Another cultural clash!

[Winstonm]

Now that electoral data is showing up it is easy to see that Clinton lost because Democrats did not show up to vote.

[kenberg]

Now that electoral data is showing up it is easy to see that Clinton lost because Democrats did not show up to vote.

 

 

Indeed. We voted on Tuesday and I was greatly surprised by the non-length of the line. It took us ten maybe fifteen minutes to get to the desk, get the ballot, fill it out, have it processed, get out the door. Of course some voted early but still I expected a longer line.

 

It's pretty Republican where I live, so this doesn't quite match with what you are saying about the Dems low turnout, but I still think you are right. Turnout was not generally high, and in Maryland the outcome was certain (Dem), but in some areas of great enthusiasm the Trump voters voted, the Clinton voters thought about maybe going out to vote if they had the time. Bad move.

 

I could have gone up to Pennsylvania to help get out the vote, but I didn't.

[y66]

And just for amusement: I was parking to go into a store, the BBC portion of the morning NPR stuff was on, and they were interviewing a guy in western Pennsylvania about Trump stuff. I found it interesting so I stayed in the car to listen. At the end, the interviewer, a guy if I remember correctly, thanked him for his fascinating insights.

Now it has been a long time since I grew up in my working class neighborhood, but back in the 1940s-1950s no guy ever called another guy fascinating.. Another cultural clash!

And if they had, the interviewee would still be getting ribbed for it in the local bar.

 

I can't stop thinking of The Deer Hunter whose characters are from western Pennsylvania and its themes of friendship, rites of passage, Russian Roulette, getting left behind and God Bless America. No doubt, Trump tapped into deep pockets of support in that part of the world. I like to think that the characters I admired got out and got on with their lives and that the Meryl Streep character at least would have voted for Hillary.

[helene_t]

Indeed. We voted on Tuesday and I was greatly surprised by the non-length of the line. It took us ten maybe fifteen minutes to get to the desk, get the ballot, fill it out, have it processed, get out the door. Of course some voted early but still I expected a longer line.

There is a simple way to improve turn-ups. I have never had to wait a minute, neither in DK, NL or UK. I am not sure if I would ever bother to vote if I had to wait for a long time. But maybe one could say that it is a way for weeding out those who don't care and would just vote more or less randomly.

[Al_U_Card]

She lost because she had insufficient appeal (even if it was only to appeal to voters to turn out) to gain a victory. That she lost all of the "battleground" states as well as some previous "safe" states speaks volumes to her D.C.-centric, pseudo-intellectual insincerity.

Her actions spoke as clearly as Trump's and happily, the preference was for a sly huckster as opposed to an insincere insider.

Trump may turn out to be the worst Prez since....Chester A. Arthur(?) but he may well be one of the better ones, like Ike, who was not beholden to anyone other than the electorate, whom he admired and wanted to protect. Likely the most interesting of times to come since quite some time.

[onoway]

wow. just... wow. What sort of President he turns out to be may get totally lost in what sort of country ( society) he has energized and validated. I was reading a thread "the First Day" and it was truly heartbreaking.

 

Women quietly pumping gas for their cars being approached by men who freely comment on what they would like to do to them. One told to get her slave number ready, another faced with a man waving a gun and saying he was thinking he might like to shoot her. One had another woman come to try to help and she was derided, belittled and threatened as well.

 

Women on public transportation facing men who try to grab their crotch while other men laughed.

 

Huge billboard graffiti proclaiming that black lives DON'T matter.

 

High schools echoing with chants and graffiti that would have been comfortable in Nazi Germany, including the use of the word "heil". Frequent taunts and diatribe using extremely derogatory and hurtful terms thrown at other students, including threats. The police say these are school matters.

 

A woman approached and harrassed by 4 men, one of who punched her; when she used her martial arts training to flatten him the other men called the police and claimed she had just attacked for no reason. She got handcuffed and hauled away by the police.

 

Women from deeply religious families being told by their mothers not to wear the hijab, it isn't safe to go outside with it on. Women who have worn it told to take it off and hang themselves with it, they are useless and unwanted so they might as well die.

 

Children going home crying from KINDERGARTEN after being told by other children that they won't be allowed to be there anymore, they have to go live behind a wall because nobody wants them and they don't belong there. The teachers either unable or unwilling to reassure them.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the fear and anxiety that many obviously non whites, especially women, much less the openly gay and the obviously handicapped, must be feeling right now. Hunting season is open, no license required.

 

So easy for those of us who are white, especially white males, to pontificate about "interesting times". so very very sad.

[billw55]

wow. just... wow. What sort of President he turns out to be may get totally lost in what sort of country ( society) he has energized and validated. I was reading a thread "the First Day" and it was truly heartbreaking.

 

Women quietly pumping gas for their cars being approached by men who freely comment on what they would like to do to them. One told to get her slave number ready, another faced with a man waving a gun and saying he was thinking he might like to shoot her. One had another woman come to try to help and she was derided, belittled and threatened as well.

 

Women on public transportation facing men who try to grab their crotch while other men laughed.

 

Huge billboard graffiti proclaiming that black lives DON'T matter.

 

High schools echoing with chants and graffiti that would have been comfortable in Nazi Germany, including the use of the word "heil". Frequent taunts and diatribe using extremely derogatory and hurtful terms thrown at other students, including threats. The police say these are school matters.

 

A woman approached and harrassed by 4 men, one of who punched her; when she used her martial arts training to flatten him the other men called the police and claimed she had just attacked for no reason. She got handcuffed and hauled away by the police.

 

Women from deeply religious families being told by their mothers not to wear the hijab, it isn't safe to go outside with it on. Women who have worn it told to take it off and hang themselves with it, they are useless and unwanted so they might as well die.

 

Children going home crying from KINDERGARTEN after being told by other children that they won't be allowed to be there anymore, they have to go live behind a wall because nobody wants them and they don't belong there. The teachers either unable or unwilling to reassure them.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the fear that many of openly gay and the obviously handicapped must be feeling right now. Hunting season is open, no license required.

 

So easy for those of us who are white to pontificate about "interesting times". so very very sad.

Again I wonder, how much of this is truth versus hoax.

[hrothgar]

I am not sure if I would ever bother to vote if I had to wait for a long time. But maybe one could say that it is a way for weeding out those who don't care and would just vote more or less randomly.

 

You could say that, but one would be making a startlingly ignorant assertion

 

Comment the first: There is severe discrimination wrt the sets of people who get to vote quickly and conveniently and the sets of people who have to wait in long lines

 

Comment thee second: The groups of people who get to wait in long lines are black, hispanics, and other such undesirables who have the misfortune to live in states controlled by the Republicans.

[onoway]

Billw55 : hope springs eternal, obviously. If even a quarter of this is true, does that make it all right? half? an eighth? What proportion of hate, violence and viciousness aimed at people for no reason other than they are different is acceptable? Would you feel as comfortable about it all if you happened to be on the other side of that particular coin?

 

What possible reason would they have to post such things, they aren't going to get any glory from being approached by predators, it isn't as though they might be talking about anyone famous, these are people who feel fear about even going to get gas from a gas station now or choosing what they will wear for the day, or trying to figure out what to tell their teenager -or their 5 year old! - about what he or she is being faced with in school.

 

And, if, just if, all these people are not making this up what then?

 

The various graffiti is online photographs, from billboards to walls to (what certainly appear to be) school lockers.

[Al_U_Card]

Billw55 : hope springs eternal, obviously. If even a quarter of this is true, does that make it all right? half? an eighth? What proportion of hate, violence and viciousness aimed at people for no reason other than they are different is acceptable? Would you feel as comfortable about it all if you happened to be on the other side of that particular coin?

 

What possible reason would they have to post such things, they aren't going to get any glory from being approached by predators, it isn't as though they might be talking about anyone famous, these are people who feel fear about even going to get gas from a gas station now or choosing what they will wear for the day, or trying to figure out what to tell their teenager -or their 5 year old! - about what he or she is being faced with in school.

 

And, if, just if, all these people are not making this up what then?

 

The various graffiti is online photographs, from billboards to walls to (what certainly appear to be) school lockers.

And if it was by disgruntled Hilophants or even Dem agents provocateur? Either way, you have 2 years until the Dems can get control of Congress and thwart any such a move by the Trump administration.

[jonottawa]

I prefer stories that AREN'T hoaxes.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfJenokrmb4

 

^^^^ Why am I not surprised that YouTube censors a video showing a 17-year old girl who supports Trump being attacked violently & viciously?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgAbumRUNy0

 

I'd say more, but if I said what ought to be said I'd probably be banned.

[jonottawa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtlzPUtyBnI

 

^^^(This was (when I originally posted it) a video showing a woman abusing her 8-year oldish child for 'voting' for Trump at school.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUy8RZ_M5No

 

 

Speaking of hoaxes ...

https://twitter.com/jonottawa/status/796858866877267968

[Winstonm]

Indeed. We voted on Tuesday and I was greatly surprised by the non-length of the line. It took us ten maybe fifteen minutes to get to the desk, get the ballot, fill it out, have it processed, get out the door. Of course some voted early but still I expected a longer line.

 

It's pretty Republican where I live, so this doesn't quite match with what you are saying about the Dems low turnout, but I still think you are right. Turnout was not generally high, and in Maryland the outcome was certain (Dem), but in some areas of great enthusiasm the Trump voters voted, the Clinton voters thought about maybe going out to vote if they had the time. Bad move.

 

I could have gone up to Pennsylvania to help get out the vote, but I didn't.

 

You might want to look at these comparisons of Dem voter turnout in last 3 elections. http://imgur.com/TOGIbcP

 

I cannot vouch for the reliability of the charts or the person who posted them

[hrothgar]

Interesting discussion here

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/theda-skocpol-responds-to-judis

[y66]

David Plouffe: What I Got Wrong About the Election

[Kaitlyn S]

wow. just... wow. What sort of President he turns out to be may get totally lost in what sort of country ( society) he has energized and validated. I was reading a thread "the First Day" and it was truly heartbreaking.

 

Women quietly pumping gas for their cars being approached by men who freely comment on what they would like to do to them. One told to get her slave number ready, another faced with a man waving a gun and saying he was thinking he might like to shoot her. One had another woman come to try to help and she was derided, belittled and threatened as well.

 

Women on public transportation facing men who try to grab their crotch while other men laughed.

 

Huge billboard graffiti proclaiming that black lives DON'T matter.

 

High schools echoing with chants and graffiti that would have been comfortable in Nazi Germany, including the use of the word "heil". Frequent taunts and diatribe using extremely derogatory and hurtful terms thrown at other students, including threats. The police say these are school matters.

 

A woman approached and harrassed by 4 men, one of who punched her; when she used her martial arts training to flatten him the other men called the police and claimed she had just attacked for no reason. She got handcuffed and hauled away by the police.

 

Women from deeply religious families being told by their mothers not to wear the hijab, it isn't safe to go outside with it on. Women who have worn it told to take it off and hang themselves with it, they are useless and unwanted so they might as well die.

 

Children going home crying from KINDERGARTEN after being told by other children that they won't be allowed to be there anymore, they have to go live behind a wall because nobody wants them and they don't belong there. The teachers either unable or unwilling to reassure them.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the fear and anxiety that many obviously non whites, especially women, much less the openly gay and the obviously handicapped, must be feeling right now. Hunting season is open, no license required.

 

So easy for those of us who are white, especially white males, to pontificate about "interesting times". so very very sad.

And this probably points out very well how women, minorities (Christians), and gays feel in many Islamic countries.

 

No, I'm probably wrong It's probably not quite that good for the women there. Gays either.

 

On an up note though, some of the elite in these countries just took it on the chin, because they won't get what they expected to when they donated heavily to the Clinton Foundation.