barmar Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Just heard that he'll be on Fresh Air tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 It occurs to me that the RNC has yet to grasp that the Trump phenomena is primarily a repudiation of the Republican policies of the past 40 years combined with an inability of the Democratic Party to position itself as the party of the working class. This is a historic opportunity for someone - but who? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 It occurs to me that the RNC has yet to grasp that the Trump phenomena is primarily a repudiation of the Republican policies of the past 40 years combined with an inability of the Democratic Party to position itself as the party of the working class. This is a historic opportunity for someone - but who? Absolutely this is an opportunity, and I agree that it is far from clear just who will seize it. I have just had a long bridge day and I am relaxing with wine, but I may later have some thoughts about this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 It occurs to me that the RNC has yet to grasp that the Trump phenomena is primarily a repudiation of the Republican policies of the past 40 years combined with an inability of the Democratic Party to position itself as the party of the working class. This is a historic opportunity for someone - but who? Winston you seem to be misreading the votes and the polls. The Democratic party is getting votes, massive votes from the working class. Why in the world do you think the Democratic party does not get votes from the working class? Look at the working class votes in calif, in LA, in NYC in Phili, in Chicago, in Detroit, Charlotte, in SF, in Oakland, in Gary, in etc etc. I predict Hillary will get milions and millions of working class votes.----------------------------------------------------- As has been pointed out in this thread and in numerous media reports those voting for Trump are: racists, uneducated, homophobic, islamicphobia, hate women, or just plain white trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 As has been pointed out in this thread and in numerous media reports those voting for Trump are: racists, uneducated, homophobic, islamicphobia, hate women, or just plain white trash.You are wrong to leave it at that. As posters here and the media have pointed out, many of the Trump supporters have economic concerns that they don't see being addressed. It is wrong for any party to try to win votes by pandering to racism, homophobia, and so on. But a party can legitimately work to earn those votes by addressing the economic concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 The NYT published this yesterday: Trump Casinos’ Tax Debt Was $30 Million. Then Christie Took Office. The Times discovered the agreement during a review of the thousands of documents filed in the bankruptcies of Mr. Trump’s casinos. The taxes went unpaid from 2002 through 2006, during which time Mr. Trump was leading the company as chairman and, until 2005, as its chief executive. He reaped millions of dollars in fees and bonuses from the company, even as it underperformed competitors, lost money every year and saw its stock collapse. Mr. Trump and Mr. Christie met in 2002, when Mr. Christie was the United States attorney for New Jersey. Mr. Trump’s sister Maryanne Trump Barry, then a federal judge in the state, had mentioned to Mr. Christie that her famous brother would like to meet him. They struck up a friendship. Mr. Christie was invited to Mr. Trump’s third wedding in 2005, and Mr. Trump was a prominent guest at Mr. Christie’s inauguration in 2010. They have double dated with their wives.No wonder Christie was livid when Trump chose Pence as his running mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 The thing I don't understand is the frequent comment by Trump supporters that he is such a successful businessman. This is a mind boggling leap of ...well who knows what, but since when are multiple bankruptcies and fraudulent business ventures such as Trump " university" considered examples of how to run a successful business? Has anything he's been involved with NOT been tinged with questionable business practices and dubious profitability? Do these admirers not know, or don't they believe, or what on earth is going on there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 The thing I don't understand is the frequent comment by Trump supporters that he is such a successful businessman. This is a mind boggling leap of ...well who knows what, but since when are multiple bankruptcies and fraudulent business ventures such as Trump " university" considered examples of how to run a successful business? Has anything he's been involved with NOT been tinged with questionable business practices and dubious profitability? Do these admirers not know, or don't they believe, or what on earth is going on there? If you buy into the right-wing schtick, it is not so difficult to view Trump as successful in business. Ignoring science, evidence, reason, and facts in favor of listening to a constant stream of sermons from Fox News and a.m. radio preachers, it is easy to understand how someone would disavow any negative information about Trump as "liberal media bias". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Winston you seem to be misreading the votes and the polls. The Democratic party is getting votes, massive votes from the working class. Why in the world do you think the Democratic party does not get votes from the working class? Look at the working class votes in calif, in LA, in NYC in Phili, in Chicago, in Detroit, Charlotte, in SF, in Oakland, in Gary, in etc etc. I predict Hillary will get milions and millions of working class votes.----------------------------------------------------- As has been pointed out in this thread and in numerous media reports those voting for Trump are: racists, uneducated, homophobic, islamicphobia, hate women, or just plain white trash. Unlike Sheldon Cooper, I can spot sarcasm - even misguided sarcasm. But information is the great equalizer in the battle for minds. Here is some pertinent information about Trump voters. source: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/emphasis added The single best predictor of Trump support in the GOP primary is the absence of a college degree. In an analysis of Trump's blowout win in New Hampshire, Evan Soltas determined that the factor explaining most of the variance in Trump's support in New Hampshire was education. “For every 1 percentage point more college graduates over the age of 25, Donald Trump's share of votes falls by 0.65 percentage points,” he said. Diplomas are what Ron Brownstein calls the “new Republican fault line.” In 2012, Mitt Romney struggled for months to consolidate support because, even as he had clear support among college-educated Republicans, he fared worse among non-college voters. RAND tested several queries to clearly divide Trump’s support from his rivals. For example, they found that Trump crushes Ted Cruz among voters who both strongly believe that “immigrants threaten American customs and values" and among voters who "strongly favor" raising taxes on the richest American households. But voters who agreed with the statement “people like me don't have any say about what the government does” were 86.5 percent more likely to prefer Trump. This feeling of powerlessness and voicelessness was a much better predictor of Trump support than age, race, college attainment, income, attitudes towards Muslims, illegal immigrants, or Hispanic identity. Less educated people who feel they have no voice in government are the primary Trump supporters - the same group that Romney could not attract in his attempt. That is a pretty good description of working class - less educated. powerless, and fearful of job loss to outside laborers - don't you think? The confusing aspect is to figure out why the powerless-feeling working class continues to support the party that is determined to eradicate the only hope for power, i.e. unions and collective bargaining, the working class has. Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with the weakening of the FCC and the Fairness Doctrine, along with weakening of the anti-trust laws, which has led over time to organizations that fill the written news and airwaves with what can only be termed biased propaganda. Where this disinformation misses is with the tech-savvy young, who are more prone to garner their knowledge from the internet and independent sources. That independent thought, to me, is the explanation of the Bernie Sanders phenomenon and a source of optimism for the country. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 The NYT published this yesterday: Trump Casinos' Tax Debt Was $30 Million. Then Christie Took Office. No wonder Christie was livid when Trump chose Pence as his running mate... Trump said "I love the poorly educated". The complete thought could have been "I love the poorly educated, they make me rich by putting their paychecks into my slot machines". Christie or the poorly educated, or business associates, or young people looking for professional training, or anyone else, the clear Trump motto is "Never give a sucker an even break". W.C. Fields was funny, Trump isn't. I think that this is all that one really has to understand about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Trump said "I love the poorly educated". The complete thought could have been "I love the poorly educated, they make me rich by putting their paychecks into my slot machines". Christie or the poorly educated, or business associates, or young people looking for professional training, or anyone else, the clear Trump motto is "Never give a sucker an even break". W.C. Fields was funny, Trump isn't. I think that this is all that one really has to understand about him. Chris Christie is looking more and more like a mafioso boss doling out "favors". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 NARRATIVE ALERT: Trump is leading working class white voters by 49-36 (NBC/Wall Street) or 46-31 (McClatchy/Marist). Romney won them by about 62-36.ADJUST YOUR NARRATIVES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 NARRATIVE ALERT: Ohio Senator Rob Portman (who personally negotiated trade deals as Bush's trade representative) is out-performing anti-trade Donald J. Trump by 10-12 points. In anti-trade Ohio.ADJUST YOUR NARRATIVES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 On a slightly lighter note: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-deli-serves-trump-sandwich-full-of-bologna-with-wall-of-mexican-chips-1.3724516 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 NARRATIVE ALERT: Trump is leading working class white voters by 49-36 (NBC/Wall Street) or 46-31 (McClatchy/Marist). Romney won them by about 62-36.ADJUST YOUR NARRATIVES! From the source I quoted earlier: Diplomas are what Ron Brownstein calls the “new Republican fault line.” In 2012, Mitt Romney struggled for months to consolidate support because, even as he had clear support among college-educated Republicans, he fared worse among non-college voters. My own view is that it is neither money nor education but a psychological bent that creates the Trump supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 The thing I don't understand is the frequent comment by Trump supporters that he is such a successful businessman. This is a mind boggling leap of ...well who knows what, but since when are multiple bankruptcies and fraudulent business ventures such as Trump " university" considered examples of how to run a successful business? Has anything he's been involved with NOT been tinged with questionable business practices and dubious profitability? Do these admirers not know, or don't they believe, or what on earth is going on there?None of that really matters. He's successful because he seems successful. He has numerous fancy buildings with his name on them. He owns a country club. He has a jet, a series of trophy wives. He's been a frequent guest on talk shows, and the hosts treated him like royalty. He's successful for the same reason the Kardashians are famous. The public doesn't look at his books, they don't see the bankruptcies. And even if they did, they don't really care. Bankruptcy and lawsuits are normal activities for big businesses. Did anyone consider Chrysler a failed business when it went into bankruptcy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 None of that really matters. He's successful because he seems successful. He has numerous fancy buildings with his name on them. He owns a country club. He has a jet, a series of trophy wives. He's been a frequent guest on talk shows, and the hosts treated him like royalty. He's successful for the same reason the Kardashians are famous. The public doesn't look at his books, they don't see the bankruptcies. And even if they did, they don't really care. Bankruptcy and lawsuits are normal activities for big businesses. Did anyone consider Chrysler a failed business when it went into bankruptcy? On this last point, there was a belief that Chrysler's problems, and more generally the auto industry's problems, were in a large part caused by same really bad judgment. I would say that if your marriage falls apart, if you end up in jail, if you end up in personal or in business bankruptcy, there is at least some reason to question your judgment in the area in which these failures have taken place. Such failures might not make a person a pariah, but they hardly are a recommendation either. Trump, in speaking about McCain, said he preferred people that didn't get captured. I prefer people that don't run a business into bankruptcy. And McCain only got captured once. And he stood in solid unity with his fellow captives even when offered an out. There is a difference, and it makes McCain look good, Trump look bad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 I am sick of Trump. Sick of hearing of him, sick of thinking about him. So a shift. Cathy Lanier will be moving on from her very successful tenure as police chief in D.C.Not everyone likes her, but hell, not everyone likes me.We have problems nationwide in police-community relations and she has been, I think more successful than most. She has had the joob for close to ten years, so others think so too. I also find her to be impressive in her personal story. She dropped out of high school when she was 14, she has made a good life for herself and accomplished more than a little. Here is an article . There are many things far more worth our time than talking about Mr. Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 I am sick of Trump. Sick of hearing of him, sick of thinking about him. So a shift. Cathy Lanier will be moving on from her very successful tenure as police chief in D.C.Not everyone likes her, but hell, not everyone likes me.We have problems nationwide in police-community relations and she has been, I think more successful than most. She has had the joob for close to ten years, so others think so too. I also find her to be impressive in her personal story. She dropped out of high school when she was 14, she has made a good life for herself and accomplished more than a little. Here is an article . There are many things far more worth our time than talking about Mr. Trump. Trump is to Lanier as the sewer is to the shining city on a hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Trump is to Lanier as the sewer is to the shining city on a hill. Exactly. I don't know that Lanier has ever wasted any breath saying anything one way or the other about Trump, but I can make a reasonable guess as to what she thinks. However here is a column by lifelong Republican voter. https://www.washingt...m=.f286e255db78 Note that he not only is repelled by Trump, he is also supportive of Clinton. I imagine that they, Clinton and Akerson, coould find many things to disagree on but he is confident that she is ready for the job. Trump isn't, and never will be. There have been other columns by prominent people of conservative leanings explaining why Trump is simply beyond the pale for them but I found this to be one that might really get the attention of reasonable people with a conservative outlook. There could well be many more such pieces. Trump is now 70. I am 77. Let me say something. We in our 70s do not reboot. We don't reset. And we are not much inclined to pretend that we have rebooted. If anything, we settle in. I know various fellow 70s who had somewhat odd traits in their 40s, and these traits have become more pronounced as they have aged. Any rebooting had to be done long ago. I will be the same person in November that I am now, and Trump will be the same Trump. We have seen what this is. Trump has put a Sarah Palin enthusiast in charge of his campaign? Really? I just have to stop reading the news, my head is spinning. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 24 hours with nothing in this thread? Are we all as sick of Trump as Ken is? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 24 hours with nothing in this thread? Are we all as sick of Trump as Ken is? :)Quiet before the storm announcement of TNN (Trump News Network). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 24 hours with nothing in this thread? Are we all as sick of Trump as Ken is? :) I only hope the voters turn out in droves to express just how sick they are of Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrei Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Is it possible that she was briefed that the armed forces were taking precautions to make sure there were no snipers in the vicinity and she filled in the gaps? As others have said, memory is a funny thing. Ryan Lochte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Ryan Lochte?Forgive me for not finding the life of some American swimmer headline news but....what??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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