Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[johnu]

Republicans say a commission should only be established if it can investigate other protests, including the racial-justice demonstrations last summer following the murder of George Floyd. Right, good thinking. There’s got to be some way to blame Black people for this, and you found it.

 

Clearly the name of commission/bill "National Commission to Investigate the January 6 Attack on the United States Capitol Complex Act" was misleading and prejudicial to the twice impeached one term Manchurian President and Grifter in Chief, and his GOP stooges (is that redundant)?

 

There was overwhelming GOP support for the

 

"National Commission to Investigate Black Lives Matter Rioting and Demonstrating While Black" bill.

 

There would also have to be restrictions that no GOP politician could be investigated or named in the final Commission report. Those partisan Democrats refused to go along with these bipartisan changes so the GOP had no choice but to vote no and maintain their dignity, honor, and integrity.

[Winstonm]

The Democrats must stop playing Charlie Brown trying to kick the football to the Republicans’ Lucy as ball holder.

[Chas_P]

The Democrats must stop playing.

 

Good luck with that.

[pilowsky]

White House press conferences are very boring now.

Occasionally Peter thingamy or the Newsmaxie asks a question, but the 'straight bat' sarcasm from not-Kayleigh is nowhere near as much fun.

I almost miss the old days.

[kenberg]

White House press conferences are very boring now.

Occasionally Peter thingamy or the Newsmaxie asks a question, but the 'straight bat' sarcasm from not-Kayleigh is nowhere near as much fun.

I almost miss the old days.

 

This stuns me, I have to say that. I cannot recall when I last watched a White House press conference and I live in this country. I am pretty sure that I have never watched the Australian analogue, whatever it would be called. Do you also watch French press conferences and British ones? Do you know other Australians who watch the American ones?

 

I have no idea who Peter thingamy is, or the other people either. I do know who Jen Psaki is, and, inspired by your comments, I tried watching a press conference:

I learned that Gina McCarthy sees multiple pathways across all sectors, something I was unaware of. Very good to hear.

 

I acknowledge that some people pay more attention to what is going on in the world than I do, but I often find that in casual conversation I am aware of events that others are unaware of. So I don't think of myself as totally uninformed. Imagining a bunch of Australians watching a WH press conference is difficult for me.

 

But we should be aware of multiple pathways across all sectors. Sounds important.

 

I guess I am agreeing with you about "very boring", it's just the "now" part I am having trouble with.

[Winstonm]

White House press conferences are very boring now.

Occasionally Peter thingamy or the Newsmaxie asks a question, but the 'straight bat' sarcasm from not-Kayleigh is nowhere near as much fun.

I almost miss the old days.

Personally, I don’t miss the Conway lies. But then I don’t watch pro wrestling, either.

[pilowsky]

This stuns me, I have to say that. I cannot recall when I last watched a White House press conference and I live in this country. I am pretty sure that I have never watched the Australian analogue, whatever it would be called. Do you also watch French press conferences and British ones? Do you know other Australians who watch the American ones?

 

I have no idea who Peter thingamy is, or the other people either. I do know who Jen Psaki is, and, inspired by your comments, I tried watching a press conference:

I learned that Gina McCarthy sees multiple pathways across all sectors, something I was unaware of. Very good to hear.

 

I acknowledge that some people pay more attention to what is going on in the world than I do, but I often find that in casual conversation I am aware of events that others are unaware of. So I don't think of myself as totally uninformed. Imagining a bunch of Australians watching a WH press conference is difficult for me.

 

But we should be aware of multiple pathways across all sectors. Sounds important.

 

I guess I am agreeing with you about "very boring", it's just the "now" part I am having trouble with.

 

A friend of mine once described a compellingly attractive young woman as being "like a shark in a swimming pool" - fascinating to watch, but you wouldn't go for a swim.

The entire former US administration was (and to some extent continues to be) absolutely riveting viewing.

That's what happens when fake TV stars think they are real.

No doubt you have seen or read Jerzy Kosinski's "Being There" when Chance the Gardener is mistaken for a supremely intelligent being.

The moment Tr**p was elected, I knew that Life was imitating art.

At the start, people thought he was a big joke who could do no harm. No-ones laughing now.

What the modern Republican party has become is so malevolent, it is incomprehensible. And I speak as a person who has looked at documents describing the murder of his family members by Germans as a "state policy".

Tr**p is just the tip of the pustulent boil that infects the whole organism.

Whenever the world appears to be making progress towards a civilised society, the impulse to slide back into feudal warlordism seems to overwhelm.

Tr**p was the "lottery ticket" or "long shot" that people buy when they are desperate - it's the same reason that stocks in gambling companies surge during hard times.

Create a system that dispossesses large swathes of the population from adequate Health Education and Welfare and Tr**p or Hitler types will emerge.

Tr**p isn't the problem. There's a reason that one-third of the eligible voting population threw in their lot with him.

It isn't just minorities discriminated against when a tiny proportion of the population is permitted to own nearly everything, and everyone else is just fodder.

 

Do I watch other countries? Yes, where it is available and of interest.

America is unusual because it is the elephant in the room.

Incompetence or bad behaviour by the American President affects the whole world.

The stupidity and incompetence that is rampant in Australia affect only a few.

 

I lived in New Zealand for a while. Pretty strange and horrible things happened there as well but it's such a small place no one really cared.

America is different. Anything the American government does touches the whole world - and not in a nice way.

What though the spicy breezes

Blow soft on Ceylon's isle;

Though every prospect pleases,

And only man is vile.

The funny thing about that quote is that it's from a hymn "Greenland's icy mountains" which Tr**p wanted to buy.

[Winstonm]

Heard on a talking head show today a guest claim that the spread and continued deference to the lie about the “stolen election” is the greatest threat to US democracy since the Civil War, and I wondered what our WC posters think about that claim.

[kenberg]

Heard on a talking head show today a guest claim that the spread and continued deference to the lie about the "stolen election" is the greatest threat to US democracy since the Civil War, and I wondered what our WC posters think about that claim.

 

I think we have entered a very difficult time. I don't think I want to evaluate a claim of "greatest threat", it suffices to say we have a huge problem. Or suffices for me anyway. I have more than once said that I am optimistic about my personal life but pessimistic about the way our society is headed. But that's not enough. I know it's not.

[barmar]

Heard on a talking head show today a guest claim that the spread and continued deference to the lie about the “stolen election” is the greatest threat to US democracy since the Civil War, and I wondered what our WC posters think about that claim.

The country has gone through many problems, economic and social. But I pretty much agree that these are the ones that struck at the heart of our democratic principles.

[pilowsky]

Normally, the idea of Democracy is premised on the principle that all citizens and legal residents are entitled to vote to decide who governs them.

In America, the founding principle was no taxation without representation. This is subtly but importantly different.

Currently, it appears that at least one party is firmly of the belief that the right to vote is something that only certain legal residents ought to be allowed to exercise.

 

This notion sits behind the rhetoric of the current Republican party.

They don't believe that everyone is entitled to vote.

 

In South Australia, we had a parliamentarian who put it like this: "How can you talk about one vote one value when 90% of the state only gets 10% of the rainfall?"

He was a member of the Conservative parties.

[Winstonm]

Normally, the idea of Democracy is premised on the principle that all citizens and legal residents are entitled to vote to decide who governs them.

In America, the founding principle was no taxation without representation. This is subtly but importantly different.

Currently, it appears that at least one party is firmly of the belief that the right to vote is something that only certain legal residents ought to be allowed to exercise.

 

This notion sits behind the rhetoric of the current Republican party.

They don't believe that everyone is entitled to vote.

 

In South Australia, we had a parliamentarian who put it like this: "How can you talk about one vote one value when 90% of the state only gets 10% of the rainfall?"

He was a member of the Conservative parties.

 

I have been convinced that here in the U.S. religious belief is the overarching principle affecting political choices. This band of extremists is as certain of their rightness as any Taliban Just recently now ex-Attorney General Bill Barr gave a speech castigating the secular nature of public schools - as if Christians were victims of government overreach.

 

 

Former Attorney General Bill Barr, in his first speech since leaving the Justice Department, railed against what he called the "secular progressive orthodoxy through government-run schools," and questioned the constitutionality of funding such public institutions, during an event in Florida on Thursday.

 

"The time has come to admit that the approach of giving militantly secularist government schools a monopoly over publicly funded education has become a disaster," Barr said in Naples. Fox News' "The Story" first obtained the video.

 

Barr said public schools have become totally incompatible with traditional Christianity and other major religions in the U.S., and therefore, "it may no longer be fair, practical or even constitutional to provide publicly funded education solely through the vehicle of state-funded schools."

 

 

 

When people like Barr and Pompeo (ex-Secretary of State) , who both allow their religious views to cloud their guardianship of democracy, are wildly supported to be allowed to hold power, the fate of the experiment is in dangerous territory.

[hrothgar]

The country has gone through many problems, economic and social. But I pretty much agree that these are the ones that struck at the heart of our democratic principles.

 

The "stolen election" lie is a symptom, not a cause.

 

For me, at least, there are two much more significant issues

 

1. The conservative news ecosystem

2. Systemic gerrymandering and the Senate, both of which empower the craziest parts of the right

[y66]

Heard on a talking head show today a guest claim that the spread and continued deference to the lie about the “stolen election” is the greatest threat to US democracy since the Civil War, and I wondered what our WC posters think about that claim.

The greatest threat is the growing class divide between people who have a college degree and people who don't have a college degree.

[kenberg]

The greatest threat is the growing class divide between people who have a college degree and people who don't have a college degree.

 

This is true, and it is so *&*&^* unnecessary. I have a Ph.D., my father finished 8th grade, we got along fine.

[Winstonm]

This is true, and it is so *&*&^* unnecessary. I have a Ph.D., my father finished 8th grade, we got along fine.

I do not think the issue is getting along but being able to understand that people complaining about European travel being closed cannot seem to grasp that others are trying to decide between eating and keeping the lights on this month, and even if true it must be their own fault for being lazy or not trying hard enough.

[kenberg]

I do not think the issue is getting along but being able to understand that people complaining about European travel being closed cannot seem to grasp that others are trying to decide between eating and keeping the lights on this month, and even if true it must be their own fault for being lazy or not trying hard enough.

 

Yes, but perhaps also part of the problem, part of the reason that the Ds have lost support among people I grew up with, is the underlying insinuation that my father has no right to be satisfied with his life, after all he is white male, or a White Male, and we all know that makes him the problem, not the solution.

 

There has to be some reason that the Dems have lost so much support from the working class, and if there is any hope of partially recovering that support it could start by re-thinking through whether the loss of support could at least a little bit be due to how they are portrayed.

As to European travel, I once asked my father if he wanted to go back and visit where he had come from. Well, he didn't know where he had come from and he could not imagine why on earth he would want to do such a thing.

[Winstonm]

For Pilowsky:

 

The Scottish government is facing a new legal challenge over its February rejection of a motion to investigate former U.S. President Donald Trump’s all-cash purchases of two golf courses, reviving an effort to force Trump to disclose how he financed the deals.

Note the date on this Reuters article: May 24, 2021

[y66]

For the silver lining files:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/upshot/stimulus-covid-startups-increase.html?campaign_id=29&emc=edit_up_20210524&instance_id=31452&nl=the-upshot&regi_id=59211987&segment_id=58849&te=1&user_id=2d8b72dd84a9ff194896ed87b2d9c72a

 

Over the last year, multiple stimulus measures from the federal government have helped families buy groceries, pay rent and build a financial cushion. This aid might have also helped start a new era of entrepreneurship.

 

There has been a surge in start-ups in America that experts have yet to fully explain. But a new study — using data that allows researchers to more precisely track new businesses across time and place — finds that the surge coincides with federal stimulus, and is strongest in Black communities.

The pandemic might mark the end of a slump in entrepreneurship that has lasted for several decades. Steep job losses, a widespread shift in how people work and a big influx of federal spending could prompt the kind of disruption that changes how people think about work and what they want to do with their lives.

 

“The idea that the pandemic has kind of restarted America’s start-up engine is a real thing,” said Scott Stern, an economist at M.I.T. and one of the authors of the research. “Sometimes you need to turn off the car in order to turn it back on.”

[kenberg]

For the silver lining files:

 

 

 

I liked this story from that article.

 

Last summer, Pilar Donnelly started making playhouses in Houston for her two 6-year-old boys. She had been laid off from her job in sports marketing and wanted to give them something for their birthday. With no background in woodworking, she started off with a design she liked online and watched YouTube to learn woodworking techniques. After making a number of playhouses for her friends and family, she realized it could be a business. That business, which she registered in June, is called Wish You Wood Custom Creations.

 

She said it was her personal savings and the unemployment benefits that really helped give her peace of mind last summer; the stimulus check wasn't enough by itself to make a huge difference in her decision to start a business.

 

"I did buy a saw with some of that money," she said. "That did help a little bit."

 

If this is where we are going, I say let's go. Notice that no college degree is required. She can, for example, read War and Peace. Or not.

 

[shyams]

For the silver lining files:

The pandemic might mark the end of a slump in entrepreneurship that has lasted for several decades. Steep job losses, a widespread shift in how people work and a big influx of federal spending could prompt the kind of disruption that changes how people think about work and what they want to do with their lives.

 

“The idea that the pandemic has kind of restarted America’s start-up engine is a real thing,” said Scott Stern, an economist at M.I.T. and one of the authors of the research. “Sometimes you need to turn off the car in order to turn it back on.”

 

I liked this story from that article.

Last summer, Pilar Donnelly started making playhouses in Houston for her two 6-year-old boys. She had been laid off from her job in sports marketing and wanted to give them something for their birthday. With no background in woodworking, she started off with a design she liked online and watched YouTube to learn woodworking techniques. After making a number of playhouses for her friends and family, she realized it could be a business. That business, which she registered in June, is called Wish You Wood Custom Creations.

 

She said it was her personal savings and the unemployment benefits that really helped give her peace of mind last summer; the stimulus check wasn't enough by itself to make a huge difference in her decision to start a business.

 

"I did buy a saw with some of that money," she said. "That did help a little bit."

If this is where we are going, I say let's go. Notice that no college degree is required. She can, for example, read War and Peace. Or not. [/size]

 

How dare these poor people start their own businesses and escape the yoke of their min-wage jobs? This is absolutely not what the cash was for.

 

This is exactly why the GOP has been protesting hard about handing over hard-earned cash of the billionaires back to those in need! Imagine these poor people receiving freebies from the Federal Government, then having the temerity to set up their own businesses! If they are rich enough to start their business with stimulus money, they were rich enough not to deserve the stimulus in the first place.

 

What exactly are the Democrats doing here? Are they trying to hamper the wealth-growing potential of the donor-class this great nation and instead allow these small, inefficient businesses to pop up everywhere? Such inefficiencies are bad for the United States. An inefficient US will eventually be attacked by our enemies -- this could soon turn into a national security issue.

 

This has to stop! The establishment must not be allowed to lose control over resources like cheap, captive labour, not even an iota.

 

So what should the establishment do to stem this rebellion? Oh, I know! Let's get the Fed to allow a spike in inflation -- maybe lasting 12 to 18 months(?). It should be enough to quell the resistance and restore the "natural" order back in the Great American system.

 

 

Please don't read the spoiler

 

Sarcasm, obviously.

 

However, the prediction within my post is logical/rational. Inflation is likely to rear its ugly head; maybe by early 2022 (?). By then, the speculators and the billionaires would have had enough time to deleverage, reduce their market positions, and effectively shield themselves from the market tumult that follows.

 

[y66]

Cowardice, not craziness, is the reason government by the people may soon perish from the earth.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/opinion/republicans-donald-trump-loyalty.html

[mycroft]

Yes, but perhaps also part of the problem, part of the reason that the Ds have lost support among people I grew up with, is the underlying insinuation that my father has no right to be satisfied with his life, after all he is white male, or a White Male, and we all know that makes him the problem, not the solution.

This is not a dichotomy, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate" notwithstanding.

 

Absolutely he is part of the problem, as are you, me, Karen, John Scalzi, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. That does not mean we are not, and especially that we can not be, part of the solution. That depends on whether he, or I, or you, or they, are willing to recognize the situation, acknowledge that however hard their life, or impressive their success was, it would have been that much harder, or that much less successful, if they weren't the acceptable colour for the job, or paid "to raise a family" instead of "for pin money", or had the right kind of "+1" for the social networking, or even "felt like they were the way they looked"; and *use* those advantages to change society so that it's a bit more fair for 2021 people. Or alternatively decide "I got mine; everything else (including the damage caused by "getting mine") is Not My Problem" and, in fact, remain solely not Part of The Solution. Absolutely his choice, and mine, and yours, and theirs. It's just now there are enough people willing to call us on it if we decide "wrong", and "how dare you talk to me like that" doesn't work (as well) any more.

 

Or even note that however hard it was for them, harder still it would be if their university education wasn't on the GI bill/400h at minimum wage instead of 3 000h, and a house was 7y/median starting salary instead of 30, and work to return America to *those* times, instead of just the "hide your gays/pregnant unmarried teens, and make sure the 'unworthy' can't vote or live in our areas."

 

There has to be some reason that the Dems have lost so much support from the working class, and if there is any hope of partially recovering that support it could start by re-thinking through whether the loss of support could at least a little bit be due to how they are portrayed.

What "working class" are you talking about here? Surely it's not the massive proportion of "working class" and "small entrepreneurs" that happen to be Black (and vote Dem) or Latino (and vote Dem unless they still have their social conservative upbringing that trumps the damage the "social conservative party" does to them, or unless they're Cuban refugees) or Asian, or Queens natives? Or are you talking about the "working class" that the newspapers always find when they bring up this story - white, rural, farmer or trucker or owner of the diner that the farmers and truckers go to, in non-coastal states, and 75% male?

 

Do you see the power of the unmarked here? That when you think "working class" you think 1950s suburban white nuclear family, even though that isn't what working class means (any more, but it wasn't true in the 1950s either)? Note, so do I (I promise that even though I lived two blocks from "International Avenue" for five years, and currently winter in blanking México, the image in my head, until my rational brain pulls out the rolled-up newspaper, looks like me). And this happens all the time, and it's "normal" when you happen to fit the view of "unmarked", and "incongruous" when you don't. Hundreds of times a day as a viewer, hundreds of times a day as the object of view. And each time, it's just that tiny bit easier if you're "normal" rather than "oh really?"...

 

The question to ask is "should the Dems care about the newspaper's idea of 'working class'?" And yes, sure; but they should also work to ensure the newspapers also cover the real working class that does vote Dem so the next generation of voters don't automatically think the way you, and I, and your father do when they hear "working class family".

 

And that's really hard, because the media, "leftie" (centre-right, anywhere else in the world) or "rightie" (no comment) or anywhere in between, are run and owned by people who, if they have acknowledged that it's easier for them in the current world (and many of them won't, they "did it all by themselves", cheap education, first house cosigned/bought by parents (and not redlined into nonexistence), able to be with their love in public and all), are quite happy with the way the world works right now, and want it to continue.

[Winstonm]

When believes Donald Trump is the true president, is that disfunction only crippling or is it fatal?

[johnu]

When believes Donald Trump is the true president, is that disfunction only crippling or is it fatal?

 

It could be transformational if we can get the part of America associated with the Confederate States of America, aka Red America, to secede from the USA a 2nd time. They can reinstate twice impeached one term Manchurian President and Grifter in Chief Trump as king/emperor/chancellor/dear leader for life. Then they can live happily forever with their no taxes on the rich, no benefits for the poor FAKE religious oligarchy and progress smoothly back to the pre Civil War days.

 

Blue America can then get on with moving into the 21st century and keeping all (Blue) Americans afloat and thriving.