Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped?

[hrothgar]

So a Trumpist mob has now stormed the capitol...

 

Can't help but note that this is why they coined the expression "A whiff of grapeshot"

[awm]

So how come whenever the left marches in protest, there are police everywhere in riot gear tear-gassing people, beating them with bludgeons, shooting rubber bullets etc... and when the right marches in protest there is minimal police presence and the protestors are allowed to do whatever they like?

 

The contrast between today's Trump-supporter protest and the BLM protests in Washington is pretty stark. Both right and left-wing protests seem to be largely peaceful with a small fraction of violent extremists, yet the reaction is so different!

[hrothgar]

The Capitol Police and the National Guard are both under Federal control.

Guess who is blocking their deployment.

 

The mayor of DC has made an official request that the National Guard be deployed.

The Defense Department is refusing.

[Winstonm]

How long does it take to build a guillotine?

[hrothgar]

The White House is claiming that the National Guard has been deployed

[pilowsky]

Apparently, Trumps tiny rally attended by the disturbingly titled 'MAGA youth' is more akin to a little Flash mob than a protest.

Worth remembering that Trump styled a few golfers at Bedminster as a protest movement.

Echoes of Germany in the 1930s without the same desperation.

[Winstonm]

I am thinking the Caligula model would be best for dealing with a recalcitrant president.

[cherdano]

In a just world, this picture would end Josh Hawley's career.

As I am almost sure it won't, at least everyone who cares to know now knows who he is.

[kenberg]

 

 

 

One who claimed to have broken into the halls of the Capitol bragged to a fellow demonstrator about how scared the employees must have been.

 

“There was coffee still sitting there and everything,” he said. “They must have just ran.”The man, who would not give his name, said he fled the building after a woman was shot.

 

[\quote]

 

 

And so on.

 

And so on.

 

And so on.

 

 

So scaring workers is fun, but he draws the line at shooting women. This is what we have come to. May this please be over soon.

[hrothgar]

Pelosi and McConnell need to convene congress off site and remove Trump from office.

 

Immediately.

[shyams]

Is there an option to edit the title of this thread?

 

I feel the time has arrived for one specific word to be excised and replaced by a "new reality" alternative that reflect whatever is prevailing (politically) in the USA.

[y66]

In a just world, this picture would end Josh Hawley's career.

As I am almost sure it won't, at least everyone who cares to know now knows who he is.

I feel sure Hawley has miscalculated and that it will cost him dearly. But I have been wrong before.

[barmar]

So not only are there "good people on both sides", Trump put out a video today in which he asked protesters to go home peacefully, but also declared "We love you." And continued to claim that he won the election by a landslide.

[Zelandakh]

I feel sure Hawley has miscalculated and that it will cost him dearly. But I have been wrong before.

He is 41 so the most important thing to him at this point of his career is the support of the conservative base and name recognition. This little diversion is giving him both. Expect him to make a Presidential run in 8-12 years' time.

[kenberg]

My hope, perhaps naive.

 

We need some top Rs and Ds to get together. McC and Pelosi certainly but we need others. They need to collectively say something like:

 

 

"Donald Trump has made it very clear that he does not accept the results of the election and he does not intend to willing accept the transfer of the presidency to Joe Biden. We, the undersigned, do accept that Joe Biden has won the presidency, we accept the election is legitimate, and we are determined to see that the presidency is transferred to Joe Biden on January 20. Ongoing events have caused great concern. We very much hope that Donald Trump will acknowledge that Joe Biden will rightfully and peacefully become president on January 20. We will assure that the transfer of the presidency takes place, that will be done regardless. We hope that Donald trump, starting immediately, will acknowledge that this transfer will take place, but we are prepared to do what is necessary to assure that the transfer does take place. "

 

No doubt someone could write it better.

 

But we have reached a crisis. There really is very little time to debate this, maybe 24 hours, maybe 48. But it looks very much like this will go very badly. We must do what we can to make it go better, but we must be prepared to deal with reality if Donald Trump continues on the path he has taken. That road leads to very dark places, but we have to deal with it as it happens.

 

Who i the Republican Party will support tis? A good question, but those who deny the reality we face are not fit to be in any position of leadership.

 

 

This is serious. Serious issues must be dealt with. And no dawdling.

[cherdano]

I'd prefer if they just did their job.

1. Certify the electoral vote.

2. Impeachment. Can be done in days if everyone agrees.

[johnu]

We need some top Rs and Ds to get together. McC and Pelosi certainly but we need others. They need to collectively say something like:

 

 

"Donald Trump has made it very clear that he does not accept the results of the election and he does not intend to willing accept the transfer of the presidency to Joe Biden. We, the undersigned, do accept that Joe Biden has won the presidency, we accept the election is legitimate, and we are determined to see that the presidency is transferred to Joe Biden on January 20. Ongoing events have caused great concern. We very much hope that Donald Trump will acknowledge that Joe Biden will rightfully and peacefully become president on January 20. We will assure that the transfer of the presidency takes place, that will be done regardless. We hope that Donald trump, starting immediately, will acknowledge that this transfer will take place, but we are prepared to do what is necessary to assure that the transfer does take place. "

 

No doubt someone could write it better.

My attempt to come up with something better:

 

Donald Trump: If you don't vacate the White House at 12:00:00 January 20, 2021, you will be arrested for trespassing, insurrection and sedition, and sent to Guantanamo on a one way ticket

[y66]

Today, the United States Capitol — the world’s greatest symbol of self-government — was ransacked while the leader of the free world cowered behind his keyboard — tweeting against his Vice President for fulfilling the duties of his oath to the Constitution.

 

Edit: Sasse said this, not Jake Tapper.

[shyams]

OK, my last cynical comment for the day (promise)

 

I am waiting for Trump to tweet something along the lines that "since the Senate + House did not complete the certification on the day mandated as per the US Constitution, they have failed to approve phony Joe Biden. This means I will remain in office until the next Presidential election in 2024"

 

:lol: :rolleyes:

[Winstonm]

My hope, perhaps naive.

 

We need some top Rs and Ds to get together. McC and Pelosi certainly but we need others. They need to collectively say something like:

 

 

"Donald Trump has made it very clear that he does not accept the results of the election and he does not intend to willing accept the transfer of the presidency to Joe Biden. We, the undersigned, do accept that Joe Biden has won the presidency, we accept the election is legitimate, and we are determined to see that the presidency is transferred to Joe Biden on January 20. Ongoing events have caused great concern. We very much hope that Donald Trump will acknowledge that Joe Biden will rightfully and peacefully become president on January 20. We will assure that the transfer of the presidency takes place, that will be done regardless. We hope that Donald trump, starting immediately, will acknowledge that this transfer will take place, but we are prepared to do what is necessary to assure that the transfer does take place. "

 

No doubt someone could write it better.

 

But we have reached a crisis. There really is very little time to debate this, maybe 24 hours, maybe 48. But it looks very much like this will go very badly. We must do what we can to make it go better, but we must be prepared to deal with reality if Donald Trump continues on the path he has taken. That road leads to very dark places, but we have to deal with it as it happens.

 

Who i the Republican Party will support tis? A good question, but those who deny the reality we face are not fit to be in any position of leadership.

 

 

This is serious. Serious issues must be dealt with. And no dawdling.

 

I am hoping people like McConnell understand that this is no longer simply politics. The president at the moment is still Donald Trump, and as such is commander-in-chief of the military. There must have been a reason to put in sycophants in the DOD - perhaps so there could be no national guard responses? It no longer matters. Take him out of office now - regardless of method. Et tu Brute? Once out, he needs to be prosecuted.

[kenberg]

I don't disagree with the other suggestions. That includes Richard's direct action. The main thing is to agree we are now in a completely unacceptable place. We have the president denying the validity of the election, denying he will agree to step down and really, however he might try to deny it, or maybe not deny it, he is the motivating force of today's riot. This has to be adderssed, and addressed without delay and without ambiguity. It is totally unacceptable and it will be dealt with, that is the only position anyone can take who has any sense whatsoever of responsibility. Exactly ow to do it? Wiser heads than mine can debate this, but not debate it long. Reality has take a turn for the worse, predictable perhaps, but at any rate iit has.

 

I doubt that Pelosi or McConnell or anyone else will enjoy this. It is necessary.

[johnu]

OK, my last cynical comment for the day (promise)

 

I am waiting for Trump to tweet something along the lines that "since the Senate + House did not complete the certification on the day mandated as per the US Constitution, they have failed to approve phony Joe Biden. This means I will remain in office until the next Presidential election in 2024"

 

:lol: :rolleyes:

At least for now, Twitter and Facebook have suspended the Manchurian President's account due to his part in the violence at the Capitol building.

[johnu]

I don't disagree with the other suggestions. That includes Richard's direct action. The main thing is to agree we are now in a completely unacceptable place. We have the president denying the validity of the election, denying he will agree to step down and really, however he might try to deny it, or maybe not deny it, he is the motivating force of today's riot. This has to be adderssed, and addressed without delay and without ambiguity. It is totally unacceptable and it will be dealt with, that is the only position anyone can take who has any sense whatsoever of responsibility. Exactly ow to do it? Wiser heads than mine can debate this, but not debate it long. Reality has take a turn for the worse, predictable perhaps, but at any rate iit has.

 

I doubt that Pelosi or McConnell or anyone else will enjoy this. It is necessary.

I saw a news report that cabinet members were talking about invoking the 25th Amendment. Another news report says that Pence was the one who called out the DC National Guard to restore order at the Capitol building. The president is the commander in chief, not the VP, so we'll have to wait to find out what happened since I don't think the Insurrectionist in Chief would have done anything to stop the domestic terrorists.

[Winstonm]

What in hell was the deal about the police opening the fences to let the insurgents into the capitol building?

[johnu]

What in hell was the deal about the police opening the fences to let the insurgents into the capitol building?

Trump stooges come from all walks of life.