stayman and transfers after intervention

[123600]

I have heard the expression syms off syms on after interference. i know 1nt-2C X is stole my bid and is stayman. ACBL says syms off after any int. bid. I can see with many conventional bids after 1NT it may not make sense to ask for a transfer to a major. BUT if you know your OPs CC why not bid X over 2D ( stole my bid) to transfer to H or bid 2H to ask for S. MY idea is to alert this. MY ftf partner play this way and today i was told in no uncertain terms i cannot do this and i was making an unsportsmanlike bid.

Please help

123600

[Vampyr]

Your method may not be best, but I cannot imagine any jurisdiction where it would be illegal. The important thing is disclosure.

[mgoetze]

The reason not to do it is that there is usually a better use for the double, but of course it depends on what the opps are playing exactly. There are jurisdictions where it is disallowed to alert any double, but you didn't specify where you're from so we can't help you with that. I will agree that it is hard to imagine a jurisdiction where double showing hearts would be illegal.

[wank]

doubling 2♦ to show hearts is 100% legal, though perhaps not a very good idea.

[helene_t]

Your method is fine, just make sure to discuss:

- if double is hearts, how do you ask for a four card hearts?

- Is opener allowed to pass the double with 4+ diamonds and a doubleton hearts?

[frisbee]

In a standard ACBL GCC (General Convention Chart) tournament, Stolen Bid doubles are allowed and must be Alerted ... note that you "Alert", you do not announce "Transfer". The normal (ACBL GCC) meaning of the Double (except over 2♣) is Penalty, so the Double must be Alerted when it is not Penalty. You can play Stolen Bid doubles, but make certain that both partners understand what the subsequent bids mean ... too often, both partners know what the first bid means, but neither partner is certain what the next bids mean, which is a good reason not to play that convention.

 

Playing Stolen Bid doubles, when the auction goes: 1NT - (2♦) - 2♥ ... and you mean the 2♥ bid as a Transfer to ♠, it must be Alerted by Partner.

 

As others mention, it is debatable whether Stolen Bid doubles are useful or not. The last survey that I saw (maybe a year ago) showed that the great majority of good, experienced tournament players used the Double as Penalty and most inexperienced players used the Double as a Transfer (Stolen Bid).

[Vampyr]

 

As others mention, it is debatable whether Stolen Bid doubles are useful or not. The last survey that I saw (maybe a year ago) showed that the great majority of good, experienced tournament players used the Double as Penalty and most inexperienced players used the Double as a Transfer (Stolen Bid).

 

I am surprised by this. Even where strong NT is common, I would have expected takeout to be a popular choice.

[helene_t]

I am surprised by this. Even where strong NT is common, I would have expected takeout to be a popular choice.

I would say especially where strong nt is common. If you play weak nt, opps are under more presure to bid with hands with points but dobious shape and suit quality, so penalty double becomes more attractive. And playing weak nt, it is less safe for opener to reopen which again makes penalty double more attractive.

 

I am not saying that you should play penalty double if you play weak notrump. But playing strong I think it is very clear that you should play take-out.

 

By the way, I am not convinced that stolen bid is so bad if you play strong NT. The advantage of making opener declare is much bigger when opener's LHO has shown a suit for his partner to lead.

[Zelandakh]

Out of interest, have you considered a simple form of Rubensohl instead? For example, over a natural 2♦:-

 

X = takeout

2M = nat, competitive

2NT = clubs, INV+

3♣ = Stayman-like, GF

3♦ = 5+ hearts, INV+

3♥ = 5+ spades, INV+

3♠ = stopper ask

3NT = to play

[Siegmund]

I am surprised by this. Even where strong NT is common, I would have expected takeout to be a popular choice.

 

It's not a scientific survey, and I do play in a relatively oldfashioned part of North America... but don't be surprised: I can't remember ever having a partner propose 2-level takeout doubles over a strong notrump when we filled out our card. I do know a couple of weak notrumpers who do it.

I've had plenty of people play it as takeout against me -- almost all of them beginners who had no idea that 1NT-2D-X might be different than 1H-2D-X. The ones who haven't yet been taught Stolen Bid by their friends. Heh. (There are a few good regular partnerships who do it, but they are an invisibly tiny minority where I am.)