Getting out opposite 20-21 balanced

[mgoetze]

Currently we play 2NT as 20-21 balanced, and 2♣ as 22+ balanced or GF, with responder always relaying with 2♦. We recently changed our responses to 2NT (and 2♣-2♦-2NT and 2♣-2♦-2♥-2♠-2NT) so that opener would only complete transfers with a fit, meaning responder with a yarborough generally has to pass 2NT.

 

Given that I'm toying with switching 2NT and 2♣-2♦-2NT, so that the latter would show 20-21 balanced, and allowing

 

2♣-2♥ = 0-3 with a 5+ suit (or 4 spades?)

2♣-2♥-2♠ = 20-21 balanced (perhaps also semibalanced min GF having second thoughts?)

2♣-2♥-2♠-2NT/3♣/3♦ = Transfer

 

I'm sure some of you have done something similar, please do comment on my scheme.

[antonylee]

Sorry to immediately derail the topic but can you detail why you only complete transfers with a fit? This approach is also fairly common in France, but if you want to help you slam bidding by identifying major fits quickly, it seems clearly better to only complete transfers without a fit, thus allowing you to transfer even with very weak hands with a 5-card major (as it is more likely that game will at least have some play with a fit).

[mgoetze]

Sorry to immediately derail the topic but can you detail why you only complete transfers with a fit? This approach is also fairly common in France, but if you want to help you slam bidding by identifying major fits quickly, it seems clearly better to only complete transfers without a fit, thus allowing you to transfer even with very weak hands with a 5-card major (as it is more likely that game will at least have some play with a fit).

Probably due to my simple nature? It seems quite nice to be in an obvious cuebidding situation after 2NT-3♦-3♥ - but if opener were to gratuitiously cuebid whenever he had a fit it would give the opponents unnecessary bidding space and information in simple COG situations. Plus, this way we easily identify and rightside 4-4 spade fits after responder transfers to hearts (in the case that opener has 2 hearts that is, would of course be nice to find them otherwise also).

 

I'm happy to look at proposed alternate schemes, perhaps send me a private message to keep this thread on track. ;)

[karlson]

I've seen the following kokish-like thing, which seems to work pretty well:

 

2♣ = 20-21 balanced or 24+ bal or strong unbalanced

-2♦ = either waiting or 5+♥

-2♥ = 5+♠

- higher = whatever you want

 

over 2♣-2♦, 2♥ shows 20-21 balanced or hearts. Responder passes with 5+ hearts and bids 2♠ otherwise, then opener clarifies.

 

In theory, you might play 2♥ when opener has unbalanced with hearts and responder has a weak hand with 5♥. I haven't seen it happen yet.

[nullve]

Responder passes with 5+ hearts and bids 2♠ otherwise, then opener clarifies.

I've seen Welland-Auken do this.

[wank]

Sorry to immediately derail the topic but can you detail why you only complete transfers with a fit? This approach is also fairly common in France, but if you want to help you slam bidding by identifying major fits quickly, it seems clearly better to only complete transfers without a fit, thus allowing you to transfer even with very weak hands with a 5-card major (as it is more likely that game will at least have some play with a fit).

 

because it allows you to do nice stuff over the completion, for example, having 2 different ways to make a slam try (3nt and a direct bid of a new suit, to show, for example, a balanced HCP slam try and a weaker shortage based slam try).

 

wanting to get out in 3M on weak hands is obviously going to be very rare and when you do it your reward, in terms of imps, is far smaller than your reward for improving your slam bidding.

 

 

 

as for the original question, i've played 2c-anything above 2d as to play opposite the minimum balanced hand, that way you don't need kokish. obviously good when it comes up, but it's very rare. reversing the ranges also has a lot negative effects when they intervene. it can be very awkward to unravel strength now.

[The Pud]

I play:

 

2♣: 20-21 balanced or GF (25+ balanced/suit), this was partner's idea which I've gone on to adapt a bit, but the main reason we play it is to get out opposite 20-21 balanced

 

2M: 5-card suit to play opposite 20-21

2NT: 6+♣ 0-3 or 8+

3♣ 6+♦ 0-3 or 8+

 

Over the transfers into a minor, completion shows 20-21 balanced, obviously any move after the completion would show 8+

 

2♣ - 2♦ is any positive or a negative without a 5cM or 6cm

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ is 20-21 balanced or hearts

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥- 2NT is 5-5 minors 0-3 and at most 1 heart

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥- 3♣ is 5-5 minors 0-3 with 2-3 hearts

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ are all the other hands including the balanced negatives that pass the 20-21 2NT rebid

 

 

Of course, considering the rarity of 2♣/2NT openers I've not had much chance to see where this gains/fails

 

 

I'd like to play transfer negatives starting at 2♦ not 2NT but I'm not sure if partner would play them with the argument being 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ Pass, but I've not really asked him.

 

You could then use 2♣ - 2♠ as 0-3 5-5 minors or 6-card minor (Ken Rexford) and the transfers into the minors as real positives or something else

[BillPatch]

If one is playing the 2♥ response as the bust hand the treatment suggested in Bridge World for the uninterrupted auction 2♣ 2♥

2♠ (puppet to 2NT) 2NT

3 of opener's suit

to show the NF suit 2 club openers offers clarity to many more hands than the OP treatment for the first three bids in this auction, so I think it superior.

 

Game Forcing suit hands bid the suit directly over the 2 hearts "drop dead" bid.