manudude03 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I don't know if this is a good idea as a topic type, but here goes. 8.5 tables, mixed field (even spread ranging from beginner+ to expert). The weaker half of the field will be playing Acol (weak NT, 4cM) while the stronger half will be split between Acol and SAYC. What would you estimate to be the MP score for N/S here? [hv=pc=n&s=sqt952hj32dqtc862&w=s63ht94dk8762cjt9&n=sak8ha875da4ca753&e=sj74hkq6dj953ckq4&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1c(16%2B)p1d(0-5)p1hp1sp2sp3sppp&p=cjc3c4c2ctcacqc6c5ckc8c9s4s2s3s8sas7s5s6sksjs9d2h5hkh2h4d3dtdkdac7d5h3d6hah6hjh9d4d9dqd7sqd8h7djsthth8]399|300[/hv] Final result was 3S+1 for +170. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I think I like this type of topic. What is the common opening bid for N hand in Acol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 totally guessing but I think it's like to be a pretty good score, 70-80 maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The beginners and Acol players will bid 1♥-1♠-3NT or 1♣-1♥-3NT. On a diamond lead they will stick in the ten (second hand low) and play the spade honours in the wrong order, attempting to block the suit. However, there is no obvious way to go off, so they will rack up their contract. Of course, I would not expect this to happen very often, except that OP was obviously shocked by the score ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 It looks like there are 5 possible/probable losers in spades, so ten tricks ought to be pretty good. Then again, 3NT can be made on the likely diamond lead from either side. But will people really be playing there with a perfectly good spade fit? I voted 80-90%, but am feeling a little less confident now, maybe 60-70 or 70-80 is more realistic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 At least half the Acol players will open 1♣ rather than 1♥, and most of them will rebid 2N and play there. The brave few who bid on with the S hand will play in 3N or 4S. Even if they pass, they've done better than spade part score whenever they get Ds right. And against any number of spades a reasonable number of defenders will lead 4th highest from their longest and strongest. So I'm guessing about 25%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 At least half the Acol players will open 1♣ rather than 1♥, and most of them will rebid 2N and play there. The brave few who bid on with the S hand will play in 3N or 4S. Even if they pass, they've done better than spade part score whenever they get Ds right. And against any number of spades a reasonable number of defenders will lead 4th highest from their longest and strongest. So I'm guessing about 25%... except that the score in question is +170, not +140. While NT does better than spades, +180 seems unlikely. At least, more than one or two of them. There is the amusing possibility of east leading a low diamond, and then when back in, leading low again, blocking the suit. Even that seems only to lead to +150 though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The beginners and Acol players will bid 1♥-1♠-3NT or 1♣-1♥-3NT. On a diamond lead they will stick in the ten (second hand low) and play the spade honours in the wrong order, attempting to block the suit. However, there is no obvious way to go off, so they will rack up their contract. Of course, I would not expect this to happen very often, except that OP was obviously shocked by the score ... I also thought 3 NT will be reached 1-2 or 3 times, and 2 NT partscore after 1m--1sp--2NT. NT partscores will do bad vs +170. Not sure if anyone will open 2 NT playing acol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Safest contract at a safe level. Many will fail to bid game at all and spades offers the most opportunity for an overtrick(s). I guessed 70-80 with only 3nt really getting the best of them. Of course if east avoids a heart lead due to the bidding I will drop my estimate to around 40% (what was that 1h bid anyway):) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 [hv=pc=n&s=sqt952hj32dqtc862&w=s63ht94dk8762cjt9&n=sak8ha875da4ca753&e=sj74hkq6dj953ckq4&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1c(16%2B)p1d(0-5)p1hp1sp2sp3sppp&p=cjc3c4c2ctcacqc6c5ckc8c9s4s2s3s8sas7s5s6sksjs9d2h5hkh2h4d3dtdkdac7d5h3d6hah6hjh9d4d9dqd7sqd8h7djsthth8]399|300|I don't know if this is a good idea as a topic type, but here goes.8.5 tables, mixed field (even spread ranging from beginner+ to expert). The weaker half of the field will be playing Acol (weak NT, 4cM) while the stronger half will be split between Acol and SAYC. What would you estimate to be the MP score for N/S here?Final result was 3S+1 for +170.[/hv] I think I like this type of topic. What is the common opening bid for N hand in Acol? Playing Acol, North might open 1♣ or 1♥. A likely auction:1♣ - 1♠ -2N - 3N APIMO 3N is likely to make, especially after ♥K lead, so 3♠+1 might be a bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Posters so far seem to have missed that the South hand may not respond (doesn't have "6 + " HCP) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenG Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Around here, many will go 2♦ (8 playing tricks or 18+, almost any shape (yech)) - 2♥ (relay) - 2NT - 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I don't know acol, but if the system requires a 1♥ opening bid, then I don't think I am missing much. So I expect that almost the entire field will see the auction proceed 1♣ 1♠ 2N, and most will then play it there. If I were on lead as east with that hand and that auction, I would be very, very tempted to lead the heart K. I mean, Jxxx, even J9xx, is a horrible lead against notrump when the suit could well be 3=3=3 around the table, and even 4=3, with dummy holding 4 (altho that may be less likely if acol is a strictly up the line method even with very weak responding hands. On a Heart K lead, N-S fall into 10 winners in notrump. Moreover, it is possible to see how 11 tricks can be won after that start, altho that would be ugly. It is a small field, which tends to randomize score distributions. I doubt that the hand would prompt a post if the score were average, and so I predict that 170 scored 1 or fewer mps. It was beaten by 2 or 3N bids by N and by 4S bidders by S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 ... 1♣ 1♠ 2N, and most will then play it there. On a Heart K lead, N-S fall into 10 winners in notrump. Yeah I overlooked this, three heart tricks come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yeah I overlooked this, three heart tricks come in. Yeah but is K of ♥ a likely lead in the context of level of players? They will lead ♦. Only 4 card suit E holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yeah but is K of ♥ a likely lead in the context of level of players? They will lead ♦. Only 4 card suit E holds.wait a second...we were told that some of the players were expert :P And maybe the non-experts would missort their hands....with KQJx in hearts, they'd all lead one, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerseyd Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Surely some Norths will feel that this hand, with all four aces and five quick tricks, is too strong to open 1♣ and rebid 2N. If North opens 2N, then North is likely to play 4♠, and a ♥ lead is quite likely against this, allowing an easy ten tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerseyd Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Actually, on reflection, 4♠ by N can always be made. For instance, on a club lead, North can keep West off lead and eventually endplay East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Actually, on reflection, 4♠ by N can always be made. For instance, on a club lead, North can keep West off lead and eventually endplay East. Actually you may be able to scramble 4♠ home from the south hand even on a heart lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tramticket Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 The standard English Acol auction is surely 1H, 1S, 2NT, Pass. Of course, local clubs tend to attract local fads. In some clubs it might be fashionable to open a minor before a major, or open 2NT (or a Benji 2C) on a balanced 19. But my guess is that 2NT making 8 Or 9 would be normal ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyunuS Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Let's see, there are many possible bidding sequences with these hands, and most of them do not lead to 4♠. Possibility 1: 1♣ - Does not get as many points2: 1♥ - Again doesn't win as many points ~12.5% +6.25% MPs3: 1NT - Also probably doesn't get as many points ~6.25% +6.25% MPs4: 1NT with transfer to spades - About equal to this ~18.75% +9.375% MPs5: 1 something - 1♠ stuff ending in 3♠ - About equal to this ~12.5% +6.25% MPs6: 1 something - 1♠ - 2NT - Probably doesn't get as many points as this ~12.5% +12.5% MPs7: 1 something - 1♠ - stuff ending in 3NT - Beats this if it makes, loses if it fails, but with how they'd likely play it'd probably only make about 20% of the time, ~12.5% +10% MPs8: 1 something - 1♠ - stuff ending in 4♠ - Beats this ~12.5%, +0 MPs Total: +69.375% MPs So I'll go with 60-70%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Hm. I estimated 70% too -- but on the assumption that almost everyone in my club is getting to 4S (even the ladies with walkers are bidding on 5 HCP and a 5-card suit now, it seems) but most of them finding a way to lose 4 fast tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 BBF has guessed the score succesfuly, not very popular option perhaps, but a win is a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well, turned out that +170 was worth 33% (I made a typo in the OP, it was 7.5 tables, not 8.5) with most pairs in 3NT or 4S making (one making an overtrick on ♥K lead, and I guess a later diamond switch). In a very quick post-mortem I basically said that I didn't want to be in 4S looking at the 2 hands. I had claimed when I had 2 diamond tricks and hadn't realised that hearts were breaking 3-3 also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well, turned out that +170 was worth 33% (I made a typo in the OP, it was 7.5 tables, not 8.5) with most pairs in 3NT or 4S making (one making an overtrick on ♥K lead, and I guess a later diamond switch). In a very quick post-mortem I basically said that I didn't want to be in 4S looking at the 2 hands. I had claimed when I had 2 diamond tricks and hadn't realised that hearts were breaking 3-3 also. Not a total surprise, 1♣/♥-1♠-3N (15-16=1N, 17-18=2N, 19=3N) or playing a 19-20 balanced 2N because you have 2 2N openers one of them thru 2♦ are fairly prevalent in UK club bridge, and either of these will get you to game. We'd start with 2N because we play good 19-21 for our 2N opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.