WesleyC Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 How do you get card advantage when they get dealt in the wrong order? Whenever my starting cards are all 4,5,6 I invariably lose (and it mostly seems to swap big cards for big cards at the start). If you're mulliganing into such bad starting hands often then you're probably not playing enough cheap cards. In an normal arena/starter deck I usually aim for something like: 1: 32: 83: 54: 55: 46+: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyC Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 <repeat post> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyC Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 This was quite disrespectful, don't you think? I have been playing CCGs for nearly 20 years, albeit not seriously. When I say HS is all about card advantage it is comparing it to its rivals. Naturally there are specific decks that work around it but for a starting player this is absolutely the best advice (by the time you are in a position to play in a different style you should understand the game well enough to work out the exceptions). In the same way as I would advise an MMDoC player not to worry much about card advantage and to concentrate more on the state of the board and positioning (because drawing is devalued in MMDoC). MtG is the most difficult - I would suggest a new player start with a Sligh deck to learn about tempo and to get a feel for threat removal versus face damage but I find it much more difficult to give a simple direction there...and that is reflected in the complexity of the game. I'm not sure how you could find this comment disrespectful. Antrax corrected you as politely as he possibly could! To be more blunt, card advantage is of minor importance in Hearthstone compared to most of the other games you've mentioned. If I was offering one concept to a new player it would be "board control" which is by far the most important/defining idea in Hearthstone given that every creature comes pre-built with "attack anywhere". FWIW, I played a lot of MMDoC and I really enjoyed the way that board positioning became a key idea. I gave up playing after ubisoft managed to stall development for 12 months. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 To be more blunt, card advantage is of minor importance in Hearthstone compared to most of the other games you've mentioned. If I was offering one concept to a new player it would be "board control" which is by far the most important/defining idea in Hearthstone given that every creature comes pre-built with "attack anywhere". This makes no sense to me. The main benefit of board control is to gain card advantage, through advantageous trades and to eliminate the opponent's counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Haven't played Hearthstone in a year or so, but back in the day it was pretty easy to build a competitive Zoo deck pretty quickly. Look at some of the low cost Warlock and Hunter decks and use these to fund more expensive options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Does "card advantage" mean having more cards in play, in hand, in deck, or ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Does "card advantage" mean having more cards in play, in hand, in deck, or ... ? In total between play and hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It can also mean having better cards for the state of the game. So trading a 2/1 for a 3/2 is a form of card advantage even though it is a 1 for 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 This was quite disrespectful, don't you think?Well, I'm sorry. I still disagree with that blanket statement though, and in HS in particular it may lead a player down a greedy path. For instance, playing my beloved grinder mage and going second against a hunter dropping a turn 1 leper gnome, I'll coin out a mad scientist rather than coining out ping, even though the latter gives immediate card advantage whereas the former loses the coin for a 1:1 trade (the secret is 50% to be duplicate and thus irrelevant for the first couple of turns, and 50% to be ice barrier, which is again a card which loses card advantage). You can look at everything through a card advantage lens (I think at the time, Zvi Moshowitz tried to force his model so that aggro decks win through the card advantage gained from the cards their opponent didn't have time to play before dying), but I don't think it really helps to think of things this way. The fact Handlock isn't the dominant deck (and is countered easily when is, and not by aggro) should be enough evidence that even HS is more complex than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Btw the current tavern brawl is well suited to mage decks with mainly common and/or basic cards. I'm currently 5-0 with a deck where the only epic cards in it (2 spellbenders) are decidedly optional and precious few rares (5). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, the word on the street is that running Druid with power of the wild is dominant. I've had a lot of fun and success playing Priest. Thoughtsteal, AoE, Wild Pyro, Shadow Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, the word on the street is that running Druid with power of the wild is dominant. I've had a lot of fun and success playing Priest. Thoughtsteal, AoE, Wild Pyro, Shadow Madness. I seem to have a very high success rate grabbing velen's chosens with my spellbenders (which I suspect aren't the secrets priests are expecting), 2 insta-concedes so far. I'm 9-2 atm and the two I lost, one was another mage "topdeck 4 damage or die" after I'd seen both FBs, they got 10, one I just got a terrible draw (7 cards left in my deck including all of my big AoEs and card draw). I had one lucky win, I presume when my spellbender intercepts a power overwhelming, the 5/7 dies at the end of opps turn, opp suicided his critters into it not realising that, and I suspect should have killed my other critters and won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Is there ny prize on the tavern brawl appart form the first win prize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not currently. The win counter is mostly for bragging rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix214 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 The new tavern brawl is pretty cool! I personally hate deckbuild tavern brawls - because as in casual mode, people start to try hard to get those wins- which takes some fun off. Last weeks challenge was great - but only when I found hunter to play with. This week is way better - all random is for me personally one of the most fun ways to play with friends - and with the increased number of legendaries it makes it even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 The new tavern brawl is pretty cool! I personally hate deckbuild tavern brawls - because as in casual mode, people start to try hard to get those wins- which takes some fun off. Last weeks challenge was great - but only when I found hunter to play with. This week is way better - all random is for me personally one of the most fun ways to play with friends - and with the increased number of legendaries it makes it even better. A slightly better algorithm than pure random for building the decks would help, after getting captain's parrot in my starting hand and discovering no other pirates were in my deck 4 times, I felt they'd run out of ideas. They could have put a bit more effort into it and got something really good. Last week's challenge was playable with anything other than warrior, I had particular success with mage/druid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't think it's pure random - I seem to get a lot more legendaries than expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't think it's pure random - I seem to get a lot more legendaries than expected. 67/566 cards are legendaries, in a 30 card deck you'd expect around 3-4, so it may be entirely random. If you filter by class a class has 36 cards of which 2 are legendary. So there are 242 neutral cards of which 49 are legendary, so each class has 51/278 available cards as legendary so you'd expect even more (around 5.5). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix214 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well, tavern brawl is to eveybodies own personal tastes - as i told - i do not like the deckbuilding challanges because people are pushing too much to win - if you get prebuilt deck of any form - it is way healthier. Not everybody thinks like that - because the challange might seem dull, but you can never please everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well, tavern brawl is to eveybodies own personal tastes - as i told - i do not like the deckbuilding challanges because people are pushing too much to win - if you get prebuilt deck of any form - it is way healthier. Not everybody thinks like that - because the challange might seem dull, but you can never please everybody. I've no objection to prebuilt decks, but putting a little work into the prebuilts would be a lot better. They could also do a "build your own deck, max n (blue) rares and everything else common (white) / non collectable (no gem)" for the challenge to make it simpler for new players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 67/566 cards are legendaries, in a 30 card deck you'd expect around 3-4...Oh, you mean it's actually uniform across all cards. Sounds reasonable - I thought it would be the same distribution like arena, which I think is closer to the distribution of card packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Oh, you mean it's actually uniform across all cards. Sounds reasonable - I thought it would be the same distribution like arena, which I think is closer to the distribution of card packs. I wonder if that's what they did to get a decent number of legendaries into peoples' decks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 New expansion coming August to shake things up: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19819218/the-grand-tournament%E2%84%A2-opens-this-august-7-22-2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 New expansion coming August to shake things up: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19819218/the-grand-tournament%E2%84%A2-opens-this-august-7-22-2015 I was watching the stream till it died, will certainly shake things up, not sure how balanced it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 So far I'm very impressed with Blizzard's ability to create a balanced CCG, so I'm rather hopeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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