How to show a strong raise?

[1eyedjack]

[hv=sn=1eyedjack&s=SAKJ7HT4DAJT3CAJ3&wn=Robot&w=S43HAQJ8653DKQC76&nn=Robot&n=SQT82HK972D64CT52&en=Robot&e=S965HD98752CKQ984&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1H(Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)PPD(3+%20%21C%3B%203+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21S%3B%209+%20HCP)P1S(4+%20%21S%3B%2013-%20total%20points)2D(4+%20%21D%3B%202-%20%21H%3B%205-%20HCP%3B%207+%20total%20points)3S(3+%20%21C%3B%203+%20%21D%3B%204+%20%21S%3B%209+%20HCP)PPP]400|300[/hv]

MP, Instant, V 34

 

We were in a reasonable spot, after a reasonable auction, but the explanation of the 3S bid is off.

 

Trouble is, if North interprets 3S as intended, he will still pass, so there is no way of knowing whether North interpreted 3S as intended or as explained.

 

I moused over some alternatives but none showed a strong raise to 3S.

[cloa513]

[hv=sn=1eyedjack&s=SAKJ7HT4DAJT3CAJ3&wn=Robot&w=S43HAQJ8653DKQC76&nn=Robot&n=SQT82HK972D64CT52&en=Robot&e=S965HD98752CKQ984&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1H(Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)PPD(3+%20%21C%3B%203+%20%21D%3B%203+%20%21S%3B%209+%20HCP)P1S(4+%20%21S%3B%2013-%20total%20points)2D(4+%20%21D%3B%202-%20%21H%3B%205-%20HCP%3B%207+%20total%20points)3S(3+%20%21C%3B%203+%20%21D%3B%204+%20%21S%3B%209+%20HCP)PPP]400|300[/hv]

MP, Instant, V 34

 

We were in a reasonable spot, after a reasonable auction, but the explanation of the 3S bid is off.

 

Trouble is, if North interprets 3S as intended, he will still pass, so there is no way of knowing whether North interpreted 3S as intended or as explained.

 

I moused over some alternatives but none showed a strong raise to 3S.

All the crap programming on display. West pass of double is ridiculous. North's 1♠ bid especially with its useless definition. Its pass of a strong raise with its idiotic definition.

[Bbradley62]

I moused over some alternatives but none showed a strong raise to 3S.

Then what on Earth would 2♥ have shown?

[Bbradley62]

All the crap programming on display... North's 1♠ bid especially with its useless definition...

If the description is going to specify 4+S (I don't think it should, but I'll start here), then the strength should be 10- total points, because North would have made a takeout double with 13+ total and he should have jumped to 2♠ over re-opening double with 11-12 total.

 

With regard to "4+S": What is North supposed to bid over the re-opening double with Jxx, xxxx, Jxx, Jxx?

[Bbradley62]

No human South did anything other than raise spades over 2♦, but the explanations of 2♠ and 4♠ also leave something to be desired:

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|clhun,~~M40322,~~M40320,~~M40321|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S7JKAH4TD3TJAC3JA%2CS34H3568JQADQKC67%2CS28TQH279KD46C25T%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%204%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%203%2B%20%21D%3B%203%2B%20%21S%3B%209%2B%20HCP%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%3B%2013-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21D%3B%202-%20%21H%3B%205-%20HCP%3B%207%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cmc%7C10%7C]360|270[/hv]

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|niboj72,~~M40352,~~M40350,~~M40351|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S7JKAH4TD3TJAC3JA%2CS34H3568JQADQKC67%2CS28TQH279KD46C25T%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%204%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%203%2B%20%21D%3B%203%2B%20%21S%3B%209%2B%20HCP%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%3B%2013-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21D%3B%202-%20%21H%3B%205-%20HCP%3B%207%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%3B%2023-25%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CS7%7C]360|270[/hv]

[iandayre]

So many of the explanations of GIB seem to be defined looking at that one action only. In this sequence, 2S, 3S and 4S are all normal rebids by the takeout doubler, and they clearly should all show 4+ Spades with an increasing range of strength. Not just here but in many other auctions, major gaps are left leaving a bidder without a call that even remotely shows their hand. And as so many of us have said repeatedly, no raise to game should show massive values, such as the 23-25 here. There are always cue bids available to show hands that may have slam interest after a non-jump advance, and those hands are very rare. Few bidding sequences should be reserved for them.

[Lovera]

No human South did anything other than raise spades over 2♦, but the explanations of 2♠ and 4♠ also leave something to be desired:

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|clhun,~~M40322,~~M40320,~~M40321|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S7JKAH4TD3TJAC3JA%2CS34H3568JQADQKC67%2CS28TQH279KD46C25T%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%204%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%203%2B%20%21D%3B%203%2B%20%21S%3B%209%2B%20HCP%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%3B%2013-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21D%3B%202-%20%21H%3B%205-%20HCP%3B%207%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cmc%7C10%7C]360|270[/hv]

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|niboj72,~~M40352,~~M40350,~~M40351|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S7JKAH4TD3TJAC3JA%2CS34H3568JQADQKC67%2CS28TQH279KD46C25T%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%204%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21C%3B%203%2B%20%21D%3B%203%2B%20%21S%3B%209%2B%20HCP%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%3B%2013-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21D%3B%202-%20%21H%3B%205-%20HCP%3B%207%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21S%3B%2023-25%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CS7%7C]360|270[/hv]

But in the last hand if the nine is ruffed it being the club J is winner there are ten tricks. Anyhow i saw that in GIB explaination of bidding there is also this indication about more total points as here(=23-25) in the South hand for 4♠ and i think is not wrong.