An excuse like this

[Phil]

 

FYI these forums are democratic...everyone has the right to air their opinion...you can either agree or disagree.. disagreement is good...the world would be a sad place if only one opinion counted(!)

 

You are right, anyone can post in these forums.

 

Two good players named MikeH and Timo are sitting at the bar at a NABC after an event. Maybe they don't have the resumes of, say, Michael Rosenberg and Steve Robinson, but these are solid expert players who just qualified for Day 3 of the LMs. They have good playing records and have proven themselves as good players in real life and on the forums. They are discussing a particular bidding problem on Board 14, or maybe the opening lead on Board 3.

 

Now, some random who played in the event, or maybe the Gold Rush Pairs who has had a few too many Budweisers strolls over and inserts himself into the conversation without really being invited. Maybe he likes to spout his opinion, and back up his ideas with platitudes and 'rules' that you might learn at the club or a Barbara Seagram class. In a failed attempt to establish credibility and because he's trying to be clever he has a hand diagram scrawled out on a napkin of a holdup play that you might find in an intermediate-level Bill Root book. It takes them about 5 milliseconds to solve the problem because they are experienced players, and they have seen this theme dozens of times, because they are experienced. The conversation would peter out and they'd take their drinks somewhere else.

 

However, lets say Random Stranger politely asks to enter the conversation and adds something meaningful to the discussion, like an interesting deceptive play he made on another board, or a fascinating ending. Now the RS would be welcome, and has made some new friends. They would continue to laugh and joke and enjoy their Buds (well, not MikeH of course because he hates Bud).

 

Sure, the forums are democratic, and anyone can post, but that does not mean that everyone's opinion counts the same as everyone else's! It isn't like voting. Once you get into the door, its like the proverbial bar. If you want to gain credibility, you need to say something INTELLIGENT that good players will want to LISTEN to. Except, players don't have the right to walk away here, they have to go to the effort to actively ignore you. However, there are established rules of protocol and you won't read them in the Terms of Service. When I started posting in 2004 (?) a few players knew me, but not everyone. I remember a one-suit squeeze that I posted early on that a few thought was pretty cool and I hope that somewhere along the line I gained some respect, even though I sometimes make idiotic bids or opening leads. Depending on other priorities in my life I have been in and out of the forums, and I have seen many pretenders try to step in and assert themselves as hot sh*t only to be either laughed at or ostracized or both.

 

 

I warn my students that,when they embark on this strange game,they will not always find the path suffused with sweetness and light.

 

 

Here's yet another reason why internet bridge is so dangerous. Maybe you are a good enough player to teach (not that teaching means anything) or maybe you have a charismatic style that people like, or maybe you don't charge for lessons or playing pro. Worse yet, you are a charlatan that lures the unsuspecting since you can coherently explain the Rule of 15 and this gets you people to pay you for speedballs or take lessons on Bergen raises.

 

Please do me (us) a favor and DONT respond to this post. Read it, read it again, and read it a 3rd time. When you understand the message, come back and try to be a contributing member of the community. Try not to take on the big dogs during the first weeks, and be respectful toward good players. When you post, try to back up your opinion with more than platitudes or pithy sayings.

 

I hope you can be an active member and have something meaningful to say and have people listen to you. Otherwise, you'll be ignored.

 

Just like at the bar.

[masse24]

As I recall it,that hand came from a goulash tournament. I was -2 which was a very good result as opponents had 5♣ stiff.

Some players with my hand didn't even bid(!) :rolleyes: That's the answer,what's the question(?!)

 

Timo, I think you misunderstood Phil's point. What he meant to say was "5♣ is stiff if HE were defending"! ;)

[mikeh]

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.

[MrAce]

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.

 

This is like a "haunted account" ! Some sort of "Buy 1 get 3" or "All in one" kind of deal. Seems like 32519 + Lurpoa + Gerard came together and opened a single BBF account!

I am kinda scared! If my guesstimation is true, ya'll should be scared!! Now I understand what Lurpoa meant when she was saying "we forgive you...." and etc. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif

[nige1]

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.

This is like a "haunted account" ! Some sort of "Buy 1 get 3" or "All in one" kind of deal. Seems like 32519 + Lurpoa + Gerard came together and opened a single BBF account! I am kinda scared! If my guesstimation is true, ya'll should be scared!! Now I understand what Lurpoa meant when she was saying "we forgive you...." and etc.

We should be ashamed of our hyenoid treatment of 32519, Lurpoa, and (especially) Gerard Cohen. Obviously, we're not equally gifted but who is trolling is sometimes a moot point. Anyway, Diana_Eva created this thread to side-line pissing-competitions. The sooner that Mr Ace and PhilG007 start their bridge-match, the better.

[PhilG007]

are these types of posts by this guy almost the classic illustration of the troll? why are we feeding it? He demonstrably has zero interest in actually understanding anything: despite the language employed in these posts, about the LOTT or the mini-notrump, etc.

 

 

I looked up your profile. It makes VERY interesting reading.....(not) You"only play with friends.If you don't know me,don't ask me"

That's hardly the remarks of a sociable person(!) I wonder what he gets up to in his leisure hours(?) I wonder if he has even HAS

any "friends"(?!) :rolleyes: I've also noticed he's decided to make his talent at the game "Private" If you ARE an expert,then why

not declare it openly???.... why all the smoke and mirrors? Why be the shy guy(?!) At least in my profile,I'm open,honest and forthright... with me ,you get what you see....unlike a couple here I could mention(!) If my postings here are indeed,"the classic illustration of the troll",then his must surely be the classic illustration of the DROLL(!) <_<

 

 

"Any fool can criticise,condemn and complain. And most fools do"

- Ben Franklin

[ArtK78]

And the point of this video is.....?! Choose your words carefully,my attorneys are watching(!)

As I have learned in my years of practice, the reason that some people have multiple attorneys is because some of their attorneys have refused to represent them. And if an attorney refuses to represent you, there is a good reason.

[Trinidad]

[criticizing, condemning and complaining post about MikeH]

"Any fool can criticise,condemn and complain. And most fools do"

- Ben Franklin

Ben Franklin has a good point.

 

Rik

[diana_eva]

I looked up your profile. It makes VERY interesting reading.....(not) You"only play with friends.If you don't know me,don't ask me"

That's hardly the remarks of a sociable person(!) I wonder what he gets up to in his leisure hours(?) I wonder if he has even HAS

any "friends"(?!) :rolleyes: I've also noticed he's decided to make his talent at the game "Private" If you ARE an expert,then why

not declare it openly???.... why all the smoke and mirrors? Why be the shy guy(?!) At least in my profile,I'm open,honest and forthright... with me ,you get what you see....unlike a couple here I could mention(!) If my postings here are indeed,"the classic illustration of the troll",then his must surely be the classic illustration of the DROLL(!) http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif

 

 

"Any fool can criticise,condemn and complain. And most fools do"

- Ben Franklin

 

While you were looking at MikeH's profile, did you notice that he has a star on his name plate? That star means that he has represented his country in international competitions, it's a symbol acknowledging real life achievements in bridge.

 

As for the text saying "playing with friends, do not invite me" many star players have similar comments in profile, because they are constantly harassed with invitations to play from randoms.

[diana_eva]

That's as maybe but I guess I'm set in my ways :)

 

PhilG, you started out like a normal poster and now you're becoming more and more aggressive. You maybe were not a troll nor planned to be one, but now you sound a lot like one. There's little point in communicating with someone who is set in their ways. If you are set, why ask? Just to be able to reply "I don't think so" and ignore any arguments? Hardly any point in opening a discussion then.

 

I don't think you intentionally came here trying to cause havoc. You can fit right in if you bother to read arguments of others against your proposed methods or solutions. And then think of what they are saying, consider whether they might have a point or not. Open your mind a little. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with others, but bland statements not backed up by any logical argument will not work well here.

[blackshoe]

At least in my profile,I'm open,honest and forthright... with me ,you get what you see....

Hm. From your profile: Age: unknown, Birthday: unknown, Gender: not telling, Preferred Conventions/System Notes: blank. "This user has not configured their 'About me' page yet".

 

"You get what you see". Yup. Nothing.

[hrothgar]

This is like a "haunted account" ! Some sort of "Buy 1 get 3" or "All in one" kind of deal. Seems like 32519 + Lurpoa + Gerard came together and opened a single BBF account!

I am kinda scared! If my guesstimation is true, ya'll should be scared!! Now I understand what Lurpoa meant when she was saying "we forgive you...." and etc. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif

 

At times, I wonder whether we only have one primary forum troll who periodically sheds his skin...

 

Lukewarm ---> 32519 ----> Phil007

[diana_eva]

...

And I have to ask why you allowed this Diana.

...

 

I think it's a natural reaction to get tilted when the whole community seems to be mobbing against you. IMO PhilG is right now on that thin line where he can lean towards listening and becoming a normal member of the community, or blow up completely and turn into a troll. Let him vent, maybe now he will see it's not personal and it's all about communication. If mods also censor him while allowing others to attack him (I'm sure that's his perception of what's going on here), there will be little chances that he goes the non-troll way.

 

He chose to take it out on MikeH. Bad choice, since Mike actually has a shiny visible symbol in his profile to prove he is a good player in real life. I hope mikeh will not mind, the "attack" is so absurd it's almost amusing.

 

Side-note: I've heard the anti-social, these-people-have-no-friends argument before from people who did not know what that star means, and why stars would write something so unfriendly in their profile. Seemed like a good moment to demote that myth along the way.

 

This is probably not the best approach, and the other mods are welcome to come clear the thread.

[PhilG007]

Hm. From your profile: Age: unknown, Birthday: unknown, Gender: not telling, Preferred Conventions/System Notes: blank. "This user has not configured their 'About me' page yet".

 

"You get what you see". Yup. Nothing.

 

Excuse Me? My profile is NOT blank Maybe something wrong with your PC? As for the other 'unknowns'

My birthday 13th May My Age 58 About me ? Just Ask! (As long as its not too personal)

[diana_eva]

Excuse Me? My profile is NOT blank Maybe something wrong with your PC? As for the other 'unknowns'

My birthday 13th May My Age 58 About me ? Just Ask! (As long as its not too personal)

 

He is talking about your BBO Forums profile. There is such a thing as a profile in the Forums too.

 

Please stop assuming something is wrong with everyone else, and instead think of what they might be saying. This is the last chance you are getting to try and read other people's replies before posting. I'm a huge believer in people, but you're not trying at all to understand that not all world is having a big problem while you are perfectly fine.

 

 

[kenberg]

As I have learned in my years of practice, the reason that some people have multiple attorneys is because some of their attorneys have refused to represent them. And if an attorney refuses to represent you, there is a good reason.

 

It's so easy for things to get out of hand. Here is what happened in a f2f game recently. The uncontested auction (I am declarer0:

1C-1H

1NT-2D (alerted by me as new minor)

3NT

 

Apparently I put down my 3NT bid with extra force. i hadn't intended to and hadn't realized I did, but perhaps I did. Before passing, rho asked if there was any significance to my added force in putting down my bidding cards. Partner said no, there wasn't. After the play was over (and I ran a squeeze for an overtrick) rho then asked me what it meant when I put down the bidding cards in that manner. I said "We are joking, right?". No. So I responded that my 1NT showed 12-14 balanced and my 3NT showed a desire to play 3NT rather than 2NT.

 

What was going on? I figured it out. Rho is very loud, and when I was playing a couple weeks ago he was frequently making comments. I had asked the director if he could get the guy to analyze the hands and make his complaints in a manner so that the whole room did not have to listen to it. At least I think it was him. Apparently he had been nursing a grudge.

 

Sometimes we just have to get out of these things alive, the winning and losing is meaningless by comparison. I take some satisfaction in rarely needing lawyers. If I need one, of course I will get one. but I prefer not to need one. I feel pretty much the same about director calls. Recently the auction went Pass-Pass-1NT alerted as forcing. Say what? Obviously lho had a misfire in her brain. Might there be a need for a director? I couldn't think of why, and we just went on.

 

Anyway, back to the thread. The 4S preempt followed by 5S and then 6S reminded me of a time when I was a volunteer playing bridge with patients at a mental insitution (the same one that houses Hinckley if he is still there). This one rather large guy played most every hand, simply by bidding until everyone else stopped. I was a bit hesitant to double him.

[Trinidad]

I expect you never tried to double him with a voice of thunder.

 

;)

 

Rik

[mikeh]

I think it's a natural reaction to get tilted when the whole community seems to be mobbing against you. IMO PhilG is right now on that thin line where he can lean towards listening and becoming a normal member of the community, or blow up completely and turn into a troll. Let him vent, maybe now he will see it's not personal and it's all about communication. If mods also censor him while allowing others to attack him (I'm sure that's his perception of what's going on here), there will be little chances that he goes the non-troll way.

 

He chose to take it out on MikeH. Bad choice, since Mike actually has a shiny visible symbol in his profile to prove he is a good player in real life. I hope mikeh will not mind, the "attack" is so absurd it's almost amusing.

 

Side-note: I've heard the anti-social, these-people-have-no-friends argument before from people who did not know what that star means, and why stars would write something so unfriendly in their profile. Seemed like a good moment to demote that myth along the way.

 

This is probably not the best approach, and the other mods are welcome to come clear the thread.

Trust me, attacks by this guy on my bridge ability aren't causing me anything but a smile. As for the 'only play with friends', it was put in as an attempt, partially successful, to avoid being constantly asked to play in 'ALL STAR TEAM GAME's. Instead of getting about one such invite about every two minutes (including when I was already playing with friends!) I sometimes go for an hour without one :P

 

I do not play much bridge, whether online or not, and prefer to play with friends when I do. And when I am watching, or commentating, it gets tiresome to either decline requests I have not invited or to ignore them.

 

As for my skill level, technically by BBO definition, I am World Class. I happen to think that WC should refer top players with a proven ability to be a serious challenge for medals in world play or the major team championships at such things as the NABC. I am not that good. In addition, I see some players claim WC status on BBO who are, frankly, bad players, and of course we all know that 80% or more of BBO experts are far from expert, so I simply opt to keep my skill level private. My friends and others who have played with or against me have their views of my abilities and since I am not looking to expand my bridge-playing, I don't care what others think.

[nige1]

You are right, anyone can post in these forums. Two good players named MikeH and Timo are sitting at the bar at a NABC after an event .... Now, some random who played in the event, or maybe the Gold Rush Pairs who has had a few too many Budweisers strolls over and inserts himself into the conversation without really being invited.

Is that analogy germane to current events on BBF? PhilG007 started a topic. Mikeh and Mr Ace replied accusing him of trolling.

He chose to take it out on MikeH. Bad choice, since Mike actually has a shiny visible symbol in his profile to prove he is a good player in real life. I hope mikeh will not mind, the "attack" is so absurd it's almost amusing.

We're grateful to the better players on BBO for allowing us to benefit from their wisdom. It's absurd, however, to cast an aggressor in the role of innocent victim.

This is probably not the best approach, and the other mods are welcome to come clear the thread.

IMO, we should tolerate eccentric views. We should attack opinions and arguments rather than their proponents. I like Diana_Eva's approach of creating this thread to side-line personal attacks and lèse-majesté protests.

[MrAce]

IMO, we should be tolerant of eccentric views. We should attack opinions and arguments rather than their proponents.

 

Not in N/B forums, and definitely not when the owner of eccentric views intentionally harming the newcomers just to piss of other people. Not in the expense of newcomers to the game.

 

Besides, there is a huge difference between eccentric and moronic.

[diana_eva]

FWIW I don't think he's posting to intentionally harm beginners. I raised the question with the other mods whether we should censor bad advice from the N/B Forums. Until now it was not necessary to police the N/B content-wise, the community did a fine job at answering questions and pointing out why bad advice was bad.

[ggwhiz]

I expect you never tried to double him with a voice of thunder.

 

;)

 

Rik

 

My University hosted training camp for the Ottawa Roughriders and a defensive end suffered a career ending injury and they bought out his contract.

 

He stuck around for a year and took up bridge with the rest of us........ and went the whole year without being doubled.

[kenberg]

The initial post refers back to the "responding to a preempt" topic, posted in the I/A forum not the N/B forum. I'll say a little about both cases.

 

 

I/A: I rate myself as advanced. I learned bridge in 1961 reading Goren and played rubber bridge for a while, then didn't play at all until maybe 1977 or so when I started playing duplicate. I used to play quite a bit, I have played far less ofte over the past twenty years, I have been playing more again lately. I know something, but an expert I am not.

I mentioned that I found the initial topic, responding to a 3D preempt, interesting. Mr Ace says 3H, mikeh says pass but he would bid at imps. I hadn't responded on the original thread but I mentioned on this thread that I thought it worth discussing just what we exepect partner to raise 3H to 4H on. Qx yes, stiff Q no, I think. At any rate, I find the question interesting. The question was posed by eagles123 and I can say I often find his posts of interest. I also think that both eagles and I can recognize an eccentric approach when we see it. Raising 3D to 5D is not my plan, and I doubt it was his.

 

N/B: I have never posted there, but if I did it would probably be as an attempt to help rather than because I was seeking advice from my fellow B/N players. It's true that a B/N could get misled by bad advice but they won't die from it and I think that they will quickly learn to take advice with a grain of salt. We all know this really, both in bridge and in life. I regard a couple of phrases as tip-offs: "As I tell my students...". Uh huh. Just give your views, skip the faux credentials. and "I am a certified director and ..." Yes, but I will be calling the certified director who is running the game.

 

There used to be an I/N forum, but no more I guess. I occasionally poste there to answer someone's question and I would sometimes get balsted for it. Not because the blaster thought I was wrong but the complaint was that what i was saying was too advanced. Well, I didn't think that it was. A lot of intermediates play fairly well and have a fair amount of knowledge, and I figured if someone thought what I was saying was over their heads they could simply ignore me and go on to the next. I was pretty sure some intermediates would find my comment useful or I wouldn't have made it. I sometimes play with people who rate themselves as intermediates so I have some basis for making this judgment.

 

Bottom line here: I think Eva has it about right. Largely people can say what they want to say, readers can evaluate it, live and learn, and if the thread becomes too testy move it somewhere. Moving it to the WC is fine, especially with the British understanding of WC.

[MrAce]

FWIW I don't think he's posting to intentionally harm beginners. I raised the question with the other mods whether we should censor bad advice from the N/B Forums. Until now it was not necessary to police the N/B content-wise, the community did a fine job at answering questions and pointing out why bad advice was bad.

 

Lets agree to disagree then.

 

 

It is very hard for a novice to understand which reply was bad and why.

 

Hell..we have 10-20-30 years of players here in forums who would not even go anywhere near a play or defense problem. Will never suggest a line. Forget about suggesting they can not even tell which line is better even after people suggested. And you are expecting a novice to reasonably understand the difference between replies? Some of which are not only fundamentally wrong but also can make a novice decide not to play this game.

 

And this guy is not even making some sort of unpopular suggestions. He is talking about the worst conventions starting with negative double. He is talking about opening 1♣ when holding 6 card spade suit and trying to explain why it is correct. This guy can't even count tricks in double dummy .This guy suggesting to pass with 20 hcp etc etc. And doing these in B/N forums.

 

Tbh, I would have no problem what so ever, if you guys decided that N/B forum is open to ONLY N/B players and MODS and players with stars. I would not be offended despite the fact that I made a living and still do from teaching. At least I would be comfortable knowing that palookas are not messing with N/B. It is not even a very populated forum. Mostly we have a novice or beginner asking a question now and then, and a pile of people answering just to make them even more confused. You-Ben-Barmar are more than capable of replying their questions along with the players with stars. There is not huge amount of N/B players coming everyday asking questions. Please protect them.

[mikeh]

Is that analogy germane to current events on BBF? PhilG007 started a topic. Mikeh and Mr Ace replied accusing him of trolling. [/size] We're grateful to the better players on BBO for allowing us to benefit from their wisdom. It's absurd, however, to cast an aggressor in the role of innocent victim.

Please note that I have not in anyway tried to cast myself as a victim, innocent or otherwise.

 

[/size] IMO, we should tolerate eccentric views. We should attack opinions and arguments rather than their proponents. I like Diana_Eva's approach of creating this thread to side-line personal attacks and [/size]lèse-majesté protests.

 

There comes a point at which reasonable people will, generally,see when a line has been crossed from eccentricity to malice. I would not be in favour of any rule that tried to specify in advance where that line should be drawn, and would be strenuously opposed to any rule that required or even permitted banning a player, in the absence of legally enforceable misconduct, based on one or even two or three instances. However, it is my right, and the right of all here, to point out when, in my opinion, someone is demonstrating not mere eccentricity but malicious intent.

 

For example, we have a poster in the WC who has a bizarre and silly take on global warming, cherry-picking information in an effort, it seems, to persuade us that it either doesn't exist or is not contributed to by human activities. He is silly but harmless, since this forum isn't about global warming and any impact he has would be below the level of noise, so I would never support his being banned, nor Lukewarm,despite their having, what to me seems to be, delusional beliefs.

 

This guy isn't like those guys. He seems to be to be intentionally poisoning the forum, and deriving some sick fun from it. He is striking at the very notion of a bridge community in which all levels of players can learn or express something about this great game. That, IMO, gives us a right to ask that he be barred. Please understand that I do not in anyway suggest that his attack on me, which you appear to view as a legitimate response to my criticisms of him, should be a factor. I'm sufficiently secure in my assessment if who I am that his attack is merely risible.