Opening a 22pt hand at the four level

[ezyang]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakjt2ha2dkqj2cat&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3hp4h?]133|200[/hv]

 

Your call? (IMPs)

[ArtK78]

4♠. Who knows? Maybe we can't beat 4♥. Maybe we can make 9-13 tricks in spades.

 

Realistically, we know that whatever action we take is going to be the final contract (unless we double and partner has a very long suit and pulls). I would expect to make 4♠ opposite almost any hand that partner tables. So that is my call.

 

 

 

[steve2005]

For me double of 4♥ is still takeout so I would double. I would raise 4♠ and 5♦ to 6 and bid 5♠ over 5♣.

 

If 4♥ penaltyish. Then hopefully you have 4N as takeout and would do the same thing as after a double.

 

Bidding at this level is a guess whatever you do could be right or wrong.

 

 

 

[blackshoe]

Bidding at this level is a guess whatever you do could be right or wrong turn out well for you, or not.

FYP. :P

[neilkaz]

I just bid 4♠ and suspect that pard has little to help.

[eagles123]

*awaits phil g saying its a wtp pass*

[rmnka447]

4 ♠! It's likely the opponents have taken a sac, but you can't be absolutely sure. But holding ♥ Ax, it's very likely partner has some ♠s and can ruff your ♥ loser. Slam may be there or not, but there's no practical way to find out. So take the most likely positive result.

[gszes]

If this were MP I could be convinced x was the way to go. This is IMPS and while I might win at least some MP for setting 4hx I lose mucho IMPS if we make 4S. That means we sort of have to accept the opps transfer to 4S as a form of insurance. I would be much happier playing 5hx than 4hx. No logical method to search for and no reason to assume we can make slam so we do the best we can.

[benlessard]

I feel that high level doubles should be mostlty for the same level suits especially at imps.

 

(4D)--X--(P)--??

 

i feel that playing a style where the X doesnt promise clubs is sensible. 5521,5422,5431,4621,4612 etc. IMO you can double with 46 as long as partner bid 4H with 3S/3H.

 

After 4H i feel the same way I think 4S or pass should represent at least 95% of partner responses, he should bid 4NT/5m with a 7 card suit or 55.

 

Ive been playing like this for a quite a while with medium success. We avoid some pretty horrible 5m contracts but sometimes its 4 double making.

 

I think it will take some time before we finetune the right middle ground between values and how many spades we should hold.

 

Its really somehting that i would like to sim to know if its a good method or not.

[PhilG007]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakjt2ha2dkqj2cat&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3hp4h?]133|200[/hv]

 

Your call? (IMPs)

 

Pass Anyone tacking action on this hand at that level should be recommended to

a good psychiatrist..(!) <_<. Another difficult lesson to learn.. accepting when you've been

outgunned and going quietly...

[diana_eva]

Pass Anyone tacking action on this hand at that level should be recommended to

a good psychiatrist..(!) http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif. Another difficult lesson to learn.. accepting when you've been

outgunned and going quietly...

 

It's called being preempted, not outgunned. None of your opps has shown points so far, all they have shown is a fit.

[mcphee]

I rate failing to bid 4S slightly lower than bonkers. No point in the BIL mentor seeing a shrink, he is obviously past any help.

[manudude03]

I tend to double more than most here, and would do so here. I don't think it's a WTP by any means, but 4S just feels too unilateral. I would not be surprised if we only took it for 500 with 4S making though.

[lycier]

This is a real good hand with 4 losers,in the face of 4♥,of course,making double is the preferred option because 4♥ give us more leeway.(Assume facing up to 4♠,there is no leeway.)

Its following is I will regarded as two suiters of ♦ and ♠,even with 4-card ♦. I also think other description may be worse.

[Winstonm]

I try to recall good advice in these situations, and this hand brings to mind the admonition to stop once there are no tools left to make an intelligent inquiry. I bid 4S.

[cherdano]

I really like double. If partner passes, I am hopeful of 800, and if he pulls to anything but 5♣, I like our chances in slam.

[billw55]

I really like double. If partner passes, I am hopeful of 800, and if he pulls to anything but 5♣, I like our chances in slam.

A discussion of what sorts of hands partner is expected to pull with would probably be more interesting than the question of what to bid with the strong hand.

[case_no_6]

4S. Is there anything else that is remotely sane?

 

By the way, you can't open this 22 HCP hand. The opponent bid first and the first to bid is the Opener. You have to OVERCALL.

[diana_eva]

4S. Is there anything else that is remotely sane?

 

...

 

Yes. Double is a reasonable option. I personally would double, but I get these doubles wrong too many times, so I refrained from arguing in favor of X because I do not know what's best.

 

If it were such a clear call, the hand wouldn't have been posted at all.

[ezyang]

On the actual table, your partner held:

 

Qxxx x Tx QJxxxx

 

Slam works on a (working) finesse.

[Trinidad]

On the actual table, your partner held:

 

Qxxx x Tx QJxxxx

 

Slam works on a (working) finesse.

Fortunately, partner balanced after your obvious pass, right? ;)

 

Rik

[manudude03]

Fortunately, partner balanced after your obvious pass, right? ;)

 

Rik

 

Just balanced? Weak. Partner obviously jumped to 6S ;)

[Winstonm]

Yes. Double is a reasonable option. I personally would double, but I get these doubles wrong too many times, so I refrained from arguing in favor of X because I do not know what's best.

 

If it were such a clear call, the hand wouldn't have been posted at all.

 

I agree that double could be a reasonable call but without a solid agreement with partner double has lots of risk. For example, is partner forced to bid again over 5D when partner pulls the 5C bid? Will partner know to correct to spades with equal length? Should he rebid a 6 card club suit? How would he know the relative lengths of the spades and diamonds?

 

These questions always seem to have two answers: the real and the right. The right is the answer that assumes a perfect partnership; the real represents what we should bid most of the time under most circumstances. For me and my game, I have to keep it real.

[The_Badger]

Anyway...back to the question Ezyang posed...what to bid? Both sides vulnerable, a 3♥first-position opener raised to 4♥, my question would be what sort of hand does the 4♥ bidder have? With a total bust, and a shapely hand and a ♥ fit, wouldn't responder be making life a bit more difficult by bidding 5♥ (we assume that is a pre-emptive raise rather than a slam try) so the 4♥ bid is based on shape, some values and a ♥ fit, which basically leaves your partner with nothing more than a near Yarborough and some shape too.

 

You have a good 5 card ♠ suit, first round control of ♥ (that's important) and a good hand. X throws the ball into partner's court - and more often than not he's going to respond 5♣. Slam may be there but 4♠ just seems the most sensible bid available.

[ArtK78]

Anyway...back to the question Ezyang posed...what to bid? Both sides vulnerable, a 3♥first-position opener raised to 4♥, my question would be what sort of hand does the 4♥ bidder have? With a total bust, and a shapely hand and a ♥ fit, wouldn't responder be making life a bit more difficult by bidding 5♥ (we assume that is a pre-emptive raise rather than a slam try) so the 4♥ bid is based on shape, some values and a ♥ fit, which basically leaves your partner with nothing more than a near Yarborough and some shape too.

 

You have a good 5 card ♠ suit, first round control of ♥ (that's important) and a good hand. X throws the ball into partner's court - and more often than not he's going to respond 5♣. Slam may be there but 4♠ just seems the most sensible bid available.

Both sides are vulnerable. That might inhibit East from jumping to 5♥.