Do *NOT* bid partner!

[Walddk]

By the way, I'm interested in your simple defence on the multi  :rolleyes:

 

Alain

2nd seat:

 

Double: 12-14 balanced, usually at at least 4-3 in the majors, or any 17+ hand, unblanced if 17-18 (will bid again).

2♥: Take-out double of a weak 2♠. 4-5 hearts, 12-16 hcp.

2♠: Take-out double of a weak 2♥. 4-5 spades, 12-16 hcp.

2NT: Natural, 15-18 hcp, usually both majors stopped. Stayman/Puppet and transfers apply.

3mi: Natural, non forcing.

 

Responder will treat double as the weak take-out type. If doubler bids again, he has the 17+ hand.

 

4th seat:

 

2♦ pass 2♥ ?

 

Double: Hearts or take-out of hearts! Opener will reveal.

2♠: Natural, non forcing.

2NT: Natural, 15-18.

3mi: Natural, non forcing.

 

2♦ pass 2♠ ?

 

Double: Spades or take-out of spades. Opener will reveal.

The rest is the same as after a 2♥ response. 3♥ is now also non forcing.

 

2♦ pass 2NT ?

 

Double: Responder psyched partner! I have a strong, usually balanced hand.

Any bid at the 3-level is natural and non forcing.

 

.....

 

This is quite simple, efficient and pretty easy to remember (my view of course).

 

Roland

[Fluffy]

IF I understand it correctly, since partner can't bid, you could alert the 3♦ pre-empt on third position as 'anything but ♣', if they double you, you can safely run to 3♥, and if still ♥ isn't your suit, you can safely run to 3♠ later :rolleyes:.

 

So for opponents to double you, they must be able and willing to double 2/3 suits.

 

BTW it is not possible for a non vulnerable passed hand partner to have a 7 card support I believe ;).

[Walddk]

IF I understand it correctly, since partner can't bid, you could alert the 3♦ pre-empt on third position as 'anything but ♣', if they double you, you can safely run to 3♥, and if still ♥ isn't your suit, you can safely run to 3♠ later ;).

 

So for opponents to double you, they must be able and willing to double 2/3 suits.

 

BTW it is not possible for a non vulnerable passed hand partner to have a 7 card support I believe ;).

Irony is dangerous on the internet, I know. When I said that partner can't bid unless he has 7-card support for opener's "suit", I thought I also "said" that responder can never bid.

 

Never is a strong word, but at least their is no ambiguity.

 

Roland

 

P.S. For the record, the most silly lead responder can find if RHO becomes declarer, especially against 3NT, is obviously a card in my suit! :rolleyes:

[cherdano]

Btw, Roland, I have to inform you that when playing in the ACBL, your partner will NOT be allowed to use ANY conventions when NOT bidding in reply to your wide-ranging 3rd seat do-not-bid-p-preempts!!! I hope this scares you from EVER using them over there (or your partner from EVER bidding over them -- he might be able to fight with you, or with an ACBL TD, but both at a time...)

 

Arend

[Walddk]

I am not worried. Firstly, I rarely play in the USA. Secondly, when I do I obviously respect the rules and regulations in the country I'm in, whether I think they are good or bad.

 

Roland

[Free]

I love weak preempts in 3rd seat. If you combine this with light openings in 1st seat, you have quite some destructive effect :rolleyes: It's not randomizing, but indeed, your partner has to pass! You either bid to make, or you bid to kill opps bidding, nobody knows...

[inquiry]

I love weak preempts in 3rd seat.  If you combine this with light openings in 1st seat, you have quite some destructive effect  :rolleyes:  It's not randomizing, but indeed, your partner has to pass!  You either bid to make, or you bid to kill opps bidding, nobody knows...

It would be interesting to see what a committee, director would say about a preempt third seat in a suit with a void and the agreement partner must pass. The reasaon why I say this is that this sounds like a psyche control, ESPECIALLY if doubled, you run and partner with great support for the opened suit does not put you back in that suit.

 

One could thus argue that the forced you must pass is a psyche control, which in some places are illegal. The counter arguement is that the preempt suggest a final contract, and does not promise any legnth in bid suit or any specific stregnth...everyone has to guess what to do... partner and opponents (well not partner as he is not allowed to participate further). Then you described it accurately, so how can it be a psyche?

 

ben

[cherdano]

I am not worried. Firstly, I rarely play in the USA. Secondly, when I do I obviously respect the rules and regulations in the country I'm in, whether I think they are good or bad.

And I tried to make it sooo obvious that I was being ironic :rolleyes: I think your agreement shows how little sense there is in regulating preempts by regulating conventional bids thereafter.

[Free]

I love weak preempts in 3rd seat.  If you combine this with light openings in 1st seat, you have quite some destructive effect  :)  It's not randomizing, but indeed, your partner has to pass!  You either bid to make, or you bid to kill opps bidding, nobody knows...

It would be interesting to see what a committee, director would say about a preempt third seat in a suit with a void and the agreement partner must pass. The reasaon why I say this is that this sounds like a psyche control, ESPECIALLY if doubled, you run and partner with great support for the opened suit does not put you back in that suit.

 

One could thus argue that the forced you must pass is a psyche control, which in some places are illegal. The counter arguement is that the preempt suggest a final contract, and does not promise any legnth in bid suit or any specific stregnth...everyone has to guess what to do... partner and opponents (well not partner as he is not allowed to participate further). Then you described it accurately, so how can it be a psyche?

 

ben

I didn't say that I open with voids, but as you put it, it's indeed possible to control the bidding this way. BUT, this is imo not a psych control, since responder has less than 10HCP... Where will he run to? And if you bid another suit, it's clear to everyone you psyched. But this is control again...

 

I wonder if you play by agreement that 3rd seat preempts are with 0+ cards in the bid suit, is it a psych control? Or is it just another "convention"?

[joker_gib]

I wonder if you play by agreement that 3rd seat preempts are with 0+ cards in the bid suit, is it a psych control? Or is it just another "convention"?

Play poker, there are a lot of psyches there !!! LOLLLL

[cherdano]

@inquiry, free: if you really open 3♥ on QJTxxx x Ax xxxx then 3♥ basically becomse a preempt in an unknown suit, and thus becomes brown sticker -- exactly as if you treat it as a controlled psych (per WBF rules). And I don't see why it shouldn't be treated as such.

[inquiry]

@inquiry, free: if you really open 3♥ on QJTxxx x Ax xxxx then 3♥ basically becomse a preempt in an unknown suit, and thus becomes brown sticker -- exactly as if you treat it as a controlled psych (per WBF rules). And I don't see why it shouldn't be treated as such.

Not sure if this is directed at me.. after my third seat preempts, my partners is not forbidden from bidding. The only precaution he should take is to allow me more freedom in my third seat preempt than in other seats. That means, just because he supports me does not necessarily mean he should automatically up the preempt. But I certainly have no controls in place, and my partners are certainly free with a fit to bump the preempt.

 

I was just point out what you did. If you bar your parnter, because you can preempt in a suit you do no hold... this could run afoul of the laws of psychic controls.