Reporting GIB Bugs

[jdonn]

Bridge Base Online offers GIB to its users, either for free or at a small cost depending on when and how it is used. GIB is a bridge-playing robot, or computer program. Since GIB is a computer, there are certain things it does really well as a bridge player. For example, GIB never miscounts a suit. It never misses a spot card. It never forgets its own system. It never fails to notice… well, anything. Overall, GIB plays better than the average player on BBO – in fact, this has been proven, as when GIB plays in BBO tournaments that humans played in as a test, it consistently performs well above average.

 

However, GIB is far from perfect. When GIB does make an error, it tends to be a dramatic error of the type that humans would rarely make. Why does this happen? There are quite a lot of reasons. GIB may be programmed incorrectly for the auction. GIB may have misunderstood what someone else meant by their bid, and reached a faulty conclusion. Sometimes when GIB doesn't know what to do, it examines a bunch of simulated hands to reach a decision, and although those simulations tend to be quite accurate, they can from time to time reach a silly conclusion for a variety of reasons.

 

It is important to BBO that GIB plays as well as reasonably possible. After all, many customers pay money to rent GIB, and they deserve a good product. What does BBO do to improve GIB? The answer is, a lot, and you can help! BBO appreciates the help of its players to find problems with GIB so they can be fixed. If you find any problem with GIB, there are several ways to report it. By reporting a hand in any of these ways, it will always be seen and considered.

 

- If the hand was in a robot tournament, you can send an automated report. After playing the hand, go to My Results toward the right of the screen. Highlight the hand on the list of hands. Toward the bottom, click on Options, mouse over Export Deal, and go to Send Robot Report. You have the opportunity to type a brief message stating what you believe went wrong, then slick Send.

- You can post to the BBO forums, in this sub-forum which is specifically designated for reporting problems with GIB: http://www.bridgebas...bot-discussion/

- You can email support@bridgebase.com with the tourney number and board number, or a link to the hand and a brief description of the problem.

- You can send a private message on BBO, either to jdonn, uday, or georgi.

 

In order to be most helpful, and help facilitate BBO's improvement of GIB, please consider the following Dos and Don'ts. Please note, these are meant as a general guide to help us all, not hard and fast rules.

 

- DO report bugs you find at your table, even if they were by your opponent GIB instead of your partner.

- DON'T be rude in your message when you report the bug. We are trying to help you!

- DO report bugs in either the bidding or the play. It's easier for us to work on the bidding, but we work on improving the play as well.

- DON'T report a bid that you think isn't best if it's not really a bug, assuming GIB did make the proper system bid, or a very reasonable choice. For example, If GIB holds AT3 K2 8754 K763 and the auction goes 1♥ (2♦) to him, none of P, 2♥, X, or 2NT are really "bugs" that we are likely to be inclined to fix. Or if GIB bid Stayman with a balanced hand including four small of its major and AQ doubleton on the side, we probably won't change it even if you think just raising to 3NT was a better idea. You can always check with us if you aren't sure, but ultimately we try to go with what seems to us the best mix of "good bridge", and what most GIB users want (many of whom are not expert bridge players, and might be confused that GIB passed with 10 points or failed to bid Stayman).

- DO analyze the hand correctly! Maybe that 4NT bid was supposed to be Keycard Blackwood for hearts after all. Or maybe GIB dropped that K from Kx under the ace because it could be endplayed if it didn't, so it hoped partner had QJx.

- DON'T report a bug just because GIB doesn't play your favorite convention. You can make suggestions if you like, but we have much more important things to work on than Exclusion Keycard Blackwood (such as improving how GIB uses regular Blackwood).

- DO read the explanations of the bids! A common example is something like 1NT (2♣) P (2♦), P (2♥) 2♠, where 2♣ showed a single-suited hand, 2♦ asked which suit, and 2♥ confirmed hearts. Partner's 2♠ bid is generally a 4 card suit, since if GIB had a 5 card suit it would have transferred directly over 2♣. The explanation explains that 2♠ would likely be a 4 card suit. It can't be stressed enough, please read the explanations of the bids, and you will save yourself a lot of trouble!

 

Thanks again to all BBO users who use GIB, and who report its problems to us so we can fix them. Your contributions are valuable and appreciated. We will continue to work on improving GIB, as well as implementing some new features and ideas down the road if and when they are possible.

 

Edit: Here's a help file with screenshots showing various ways to report GIB bugs.

Edited May 14, 2015 by diana_eva
Added link to help file

[lycier]

Honorific Jdonn :

 

Even if what you said is clear,I have to say sometimes it is partial to your feelings,not our fans.Don't be angry with me,if I make some mistakes,now I beg you pardon in advance.You are very very busy at robot,never know what is the most afraid on this forum.I think there are four things at least to be afraid of.

 

First thing : No moderaters on this forum.

Rain said

" Please refrain from using offensive language here. "

You said

"DON'T be rude in your message when you report the bug. We are trying to help you!"

 

I have ever seen somebody using offensive language here three times ,even English is not my mother tongue,I also know those comments are verbally abusive and off topic at least,who can maintain order? Maybe you say admin? A new admin had ever dealed with those,but I never think that admin have ability to deal with it well.

 

Rain said

" Do understand that this is a public (moderated) forum "

 

The communication and understanding are the most important parts of bridge.

Who had ever made communication and understanding with our fans?

Georgi? He mainly said : Thanks for reporting,it will be fixed on xx version.Nothing to say about other things,even though he is a kind Yellows.

Stephen Tu? It is only recently for him to let us know more about robot work.

Without communication and understanding ,our fans are afraid you are angry with us because no one is always right under the sun,of course,including anyone whatever it is.

How to do next for us?

 

Second thing:some concrete requirements are beyond our fans' abilities.

- DON'T report a bid that you think isn't best if it's not really a bug, assuming GIB did make the proper system bid, or a very reasonable choice.

- DON'T report a bug just because GIB doesn't play your favorite convention. You can make suggestions if you like.

 

 

To be honest,I'm afraid this task is beyond our fans sometimes. Here,May I make a example?

Now please look at my thread,its link : Is this a qualified Cappelletti overcall?

 

As for my thread,there are three issues on it:

1- Should I report ?

If you say "No ",I will be glad to accept it.

2- Should this be a issue with worth discussing?

Of course,our fans think it is.

Should a issue with worth discussing be reported ?

Sorry,obviously we really don't know it.

3- Discussion is also a kind of learning method.

As for my hand,our fans really wanna to know how to bid for expert players if play capp,but we are afraid you are angry with the issue reporter - eventually your BBO ruled that we basically complain about Gib.

How to do next for us?

 

Third thing:

Barmar said :Why not use " Send Robot Report "?

It is just today I know his exact meanings.His comment is very good.

 

Jdonn,would you tell us what is the best reporting procedures?

I mean that you would better tell us reporting procedures - first step,second step...... or best method,second method....etcetc.

How many different are there between " Sent Robot Report to you,Uday and Georgi " and " post it on this forum" ?

 

Fourth thing :

Beg you pardon in advance here again.

To be honest,there is a biggest bug on this forum !

I remembered that I had made several self-judgment on several bug reporting,Georgi's replies are same,it seems I am a "expert" fans,unfortunately, Georgi told me that really isn't a bug at another thread,now I became a "beginner" fans.

Who have told our fans what is standard bug of Gib?

My answer is that no one define bug of Gib exactly.

So," what's a standard bug of Gib is a biggest bug in fact.

So,strangely I found a " bug " ish issue on your this thread :

 

-DON'T report a bid that you think isn't best if it's not really a bug, assuming GIB did make the proper system bid, or a very reasonable choice. For example, If GIB holds AT3 K2 8754 K763 and the auction goes 1♥ (2♦) to him, none of P, 2♥, X, or 2NT are really "bugs" that we are likely to be inclined to fix. Or if GIB bid Stayman with a balanced hand including four small of its major and AQ doubleton on the side, we probably won't change it even if you think just raising to 3NT was a better idea. You can always check with us if you aren't sure, but ultimately we try to go with what seems to us the best mix of "good bridge", and what most GIB users want (many of whom are not expert bridge players, and might be confused that GIB passed with 10 points or failed to bid Stayman).

 

 

To be honest,your "Don't" is a bit far from fans,even it is beyond us. And it is also paradoxically.

1- If it is a valuable definition on bug according to what you said,please you review our threads in the past- in which we have reported many error of the type,now we know you do not recognise our reports which should meet your reporting requirements.

2- Do you believe we have ability to authenticate bug?

Of course,we have no ability, our fans will try our best,please you don't think we have "complained about Gib" if we really make some mistakes.

 

Now let's review what Rain said again:

Do understand that this is a public (moderated) forum - any BBFer can see and reply to your post and give their opinion too. Not everyone wil share your opinion about what constitutes a GIB bug.

This is not for venting against GIB. Bug reports here are meant to help the developers improve GIB and make it play better.

 

 

For our fans,we should try to help the developers improve GIB and make it play better,but we also need communication and understanding .

For the staff of BBO,generally speaking,It is just because it is a public forum, it need to have a broader mind and pay more patience.

would I say wrong?

 

Best Wishes

 

Lycier

[jdonn]

Hi Lycier, I'm not sure I understood everything you were saying, but my post was intended to be a general helpful guide of how to report bugs for GIB. My uppercase DO and DON'T was just intended as a style of writing, not shouting or bossing anyone around. Like I said in the post, if you think you should report something or you aren't sure, just report it. I was just trying my best to give guidance.

 

Maybe it would also have been helpful for me to define "bug". We are looking first and foremost for things that are clearly wrong with GIB. When I used the example of AT3 K2 8754 K763 after 1♥ (2♦), I was choosing an example where lots of choices have merit. If we did a bidding poll, they would all get a few votes. It's not a productive use of our time to do a study of what GIB "should" do, when all the choices are reasonable and when the situation is very specific. Someone (I honestly can't remember who) did send a bug report on a hand very similar to that (not exactly the same though), and it seemed to my that GIB made the most popular choice of double, and the sender was unhappy that GIB's choice (combined with their own choice, which was also debatable) led to a poor result.

 

By contrast, suppose your GIB holds Qxx T9xxx Txx xx and sees the following auction:

1♦ (1♠) P (3♠)

4♣ (P) ?

Obviously GIB should bid 4♦. There isn't another remotely reasonable choice. But suppose your GIB passes, choosing the second suit even though he has more cards in the first suit. That is a clear and obvious bug. Something must be programmed incorrectly. Those are especially what we want to know about. Of course, even if someone sends a report that maybe "shouldn't" have been sent, it's no big deal and we will still look at it. But it would save them and us a little time if frivolous reports weren't sent that's all.

 

I should probably have also been more clear that the BBO forums are a great place to discuss if you aren't sure whether you should or shouldn't report something. In my post I was mostly thinking in terms of the automated robot reports. Those are reports of problems, whereas the forums are a place for open discussion. There was nothing at all wrong with your question about Cappelletti, it was a good question. Regarding your 3 questions on it:

1. I would say no, it's not worthy of a robot report. The bid matches the explanation, and the explanation is part of a common convention. But like I said, if someone reports it, no big deal, and I do understand why since not everyone would bid a major on 4 cards in that spot.

2. Absolutely it's worthy of discussion on BBO forums.

3. Also a big yes.

 

I wasn't accusing anyone in particular of being rude, but sometimes in the robot reports, people are. "What the [bleep] are your programmers doing, they must be idiots, blah blah blah." Of course they are usually sending a report right after something happened that frustrated them, I understand that. But I think a reminder for everyone to be polite doesn't hurt every now and then. That means BBO as well of course, although in my experience BBO employees and representatives have always been very polite.

 

Thanks for your feedback, and I hope you continue using GIB and sending helpful reports so we can make GIB even better for you.

[malprac]

https://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=SB%3Amalprac-1550424415-4&username=malprac

hi,

in above link (hope it's working) one of the instant tournament hand GIB declared differently..

nearly all players bid 2♥ after GIB 's 1♠, 1nt and GIB passes after 2♥

but only in my table GIB keeps bidding by 2♠,and 3♣

is it normal? or a bug..

thanks by now..

[steve2005]

https://www.bridgeba...sername=malprac

hi,

in above link (hope it's working) one of the instant tournament hand GIB declared differently..

nearly all players bid 2♥ after GIB 's 1♠, 1nt and GIB passes after 2♥

but only in my table GIB keeps bidding by 2♠,and 3♣

is it normal? or a bug..

thanks by now..

NO bug a new version of GIB just released so GIB will play differently till have enough games to use current Gib in instants

[malprac]

NO bug a new version of GIB just released so GIB will play differently till have enough games to use current Gib in instants

ok.. now it became clear.. tanks.. one more example.. after the second one i was thinking GIB has really some problem with me :)

it's getting sharper anyway..

https://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=SB%3Amalprac-1550743797-1&username=malprac

[JurgenPetr]

Hi all,

 

what I don't understand:

1. Most Mails are from 2015, only the last 3 are recent.

2. I didn't find a button "Send robot report" in the old version with flashplayer, only in the new version do I now find one.

 

best wishes

Jurgen

[peho]

GIB always attack very badly, also very strange blackwood - always misunderstanding. Take a look at example:

https://imgur.com/ufIjIlJ

1NT-2H-2S

Attack in trump is not good idea as robot with NT plays, attack in H seems much safer and better.

[ArtK78]

I experienced the following GIB blowup today.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk94hq3dakq764ck6&n=sqt7hj97d832caq72&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1n2cd2s3dp3sdpp3ndpp7ddppp]266|200[/hv]

 

 

GIB took us out of an apparently cold 3NTx by pulling to 7♦! I have never seen anything like this.

 

By the way, East had all 4 diamonds, which I picked up to hold the loss to down 3.

[johnu]

7♦ is a conventional bid that shows an original holding of 14 cards.

[smerriman]

Basic GIB does everything the same except pulls to 4♦ instead of 7. Guessing some bytes were lost midstream somewhere (like on very rare occasions where I've seen GIB bid as if it had its RHO's hand - including describing the bid as a 'raise' etc)

[bhappy2]

Why does GIB pitch what could be useful cards, often pulling an intermediate card out of a suit rather than just selecting the lowest card? No transportation issue involved. Idk whether that's a "bug" or not.

[johnu]

Why does GIB pitch what could be useful cards, often pulling an intermediate card out of a suit rather than just selecting the lowest card? No transportation issue involved. Idk whether that's a "bug" or not.

Just following the time tested bridge adage, "throw winners, keep losers".

[otangu]

GIB hardly (never) uses Total Law of Tricks principle in competition and always (mostly) pulls the penalty DBL below 4S.

Since BBO acquisitioned Bridge Baron it'll be much better to deploy its player which could also be configured with respect to bidding system and defense principles. I'd pay a one-time fee for a configurable robot on top of the tourney fees. In fact, I'd own more than one configured robot and rent it on a tourney basis e.g one Robot for 2/1 and another for 1C Strong

 

There's no point to complain the shortcomings of the current GIB as I understand it's a hefty task to maintain / revise it.

 

There's also a wide-spread belief about returning to the clubs late this year if the vaccines work but a lot of people will stay away for a while and folks like me will keep using the robot

[pes_6]

Please fix this. Robot go down easy makeable grand slam contract. I really don't know why it played on this way. It didn't play ruffs than it played expas in spades?!?!?!!?!??

 

 

Link:

 

https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|k70,pes_6,spaton,~~M31549|md|4SQ74H65DT85CK7542,SAKTHT932DAKJ74C3,S86532HDQ632CQT86,SJ9HAKQJ874D9CAJ9|sv|n|rh||ah|Board%202|mb|1H|mb|P|mb|2D|mb|D|mb|2H|mb|P|mb|3H|mb|P|mb|3S|mb|P|mb|4N|mb|P|mb|5C|mb|P|mb|5D|mb|P|mb|5N|mb|P|mb|7H|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|DT|pc|DA|pc|D2|pc|D9|pc|H3|pc|S2|pc|H8|pc|H5|pc|H4|pc|H6|pc|HT|pc|S3|pc|SA|pc|S5|pc|S9|pc|S4|pc|SK|pc|S6|pc|SJ|pc|S7|pc|ST|pc|S8|pc|C9|pc|SQ|pc|C2|pc|C3|pc|CQ|pc|CA|pc|CJ|pc|C4|pc|H2|pc|C6|pc|DK|pc|D3|pc|H7|pc|D5|pc|HA|pc|C5|pc|H9|pc|C8|pc|HK|pc|D8|pc|D4|pc|CT|pc|HQ|pc|C7|pc|DJ|pc|D6|pc|HJ|pc|CK|pc|D7|pc|DQ|

[nige1]

[hv=lin=st||pn|k70,pes_6,spaton,~~M31549|md|4SQ74H65DT85CK7542,SAKTHT932DAKJ74C3,S86532HDQ632CQT86,SJ9HAKQJ874D9CAJ9|sv|n|rh||ah|Board%202|mb|1H|mb|P|mb|2D|mb|D|mb|2H|mb|P|mb|3H|mb|P|mb|3S|mb|P|mb|4N|mb|P|mb|5C|mb|P|mb|5D|mb|P|mb|5N|mb|P|mb|7H|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|DT|pc|DA|pc|D2|pc|D9|pc|H3|pc|S2|pc|H8|pc|H5|pc|H4|pc|H6|pc|HT|pc|S3|pc|SA|pc|S5|pc|S9|pc|S4|pc|SK|pc|S6|pc|SJ|pc|S7|pc|ST|pc|S8|pc|C9|pc|SQ|pc|C2|pc|C3|pc|CQ|pc|CA|pc|CJ|pc|C4|pc|H2|pc|C6|pc|DK|pc|D3|pc|H7|pc|D5|pc|HA|pc|C5|pc|H9|pc|C8|pc|HK|pc|D8|pc|D4|pc|CT|pc|HQ|pc|C7|pc|DJ|pc|D6|pc|HJ|pc|CK|pc|D7|pc|DQ|]300|300|

pes_6 'Please fix this. Robot goes down in easy makeable grand slam contract. I really don't know why it played on this way.'

+++++++++++++++++++++++

GIB makes such errors with increasing frequency :(

The likely explanation is that the BBO programmer took time off from his onerous revenue-creation schedule, to tackle an old Gib bug :)

Unfortunately, bizarre behaviour like this was an unforeseen side-effect of his fix :(

The obvious solution is for BBO owners to allow their programmer a few extra minutes for regression-testing :) [/hv]

[smerriman]

The explanation is pretty obvious here; North doubled and is therefore guaranteed to have the remaining honors. It's a major issue with GIB that it overly trusts opposition bidding, and is unable to distinguish between lines which rely on that information and lines which don't.

 

But it's been like that forever.

[thepossum]

Clear example of defensive psyche fooling a piece of software that relies on certain assumptions about where the points are. But arent there easier ways to make it?

[thepossum]

Clear example of defensive psyche fooling a piece of software that relies on certain assumptions about where the points are. But arent there easier ways to make it? Does it even need that play. I'm not good enough to know if that is the percentage line or not. I thought I had seen a line that required no risk at all. Are there really all these people who just like to torment the poor thing. I used to rant at it a bit then developed a more kindly attitude towards it.

 

PS I know it was a lead directing double but does GiB know that :)

[pes_6]

I really can't belive this one. In automated tourney where is 2/1 mandatory system by description Robot make this mistake:

 

1H - 3D isn't D suit that means 10-12 4H+ if Bergen raise. Robot's right bid is simple 1NT in this situation.

 

https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&myhand=M-1040942438-1617263521

[smerriman]

GIB doesn't play Bergen. It plays invitational jump shifts (which is common at expert level too, though GIB doesn't play them very well). If you looked the description of the bid you would have seen this.

[mikl_plkcc]

delete

[icer]

this happened recently: https://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/fetchlin.php?id=1938585196&when_played=1641132001

GIB forgot system just like a human would...

[thorvald]

I am unable to reproduce this with the normal robots, could it be the advanced robots?

[Castle1944]

I have had a few instances of what I would consider programming problems but last week was the worst. At the table, with humans, it would have been considered a psyche but, presumably Robots can't psyche.

 

Robot held:

KQ1084

3

K9

AK953

 

After three passes robot opened 1S (Vul against non), 2H overcall by me, 2S by robot’s partner, Pass by my partner and 3D by robot and explained as 2- C; 3+ D; 5+ S; 16-18 total points, forcing to 3S

 

A total misstatement of the hand.

 

Is this a programming error or a programmed random bid? It is bids and explanations such as this that spread the information that the robots cheat and people are dropping out of playing on BBO because of it.