Two or three?

[cherdano]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sk64hakj975da9c98]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥-1NT-?[/hv]

You deal and open 1♥ (playing 2/1). What is your rebid? (Opponents silent.)

[mike777]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sk64hakj9da9c98]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥-1NT-?[/hv]

You deal and open 1♥ (playing 2/1). What is your rebid? (Opponents silent.)

NO wonder I never win, they only give me 11 cards on BBO.

[HeartA]

I would rebid 2♥. 3♥ is close. There is no other choice.

[the hog]

3H. What else? Far too good for a meagre 2H with these prime cards.

[TimG]

I would rebid 2♥. 3♥ is close. There is no other choice.

2NT should be a consideration. If partner has a weak hand with a long minor, he can bid 3m over 2NT (not an option over 3♥).

[pclayton]

Is this a serious question? 2H is about my 4th choice behind 3H, 2N and 2C. This hand evaluates at north of an 18 count.

[the hog]

I agree, Phil, in fact at Imps even 3NT is better than 2H. There are too many hands where you will make 9 tricks if you can bring in the H suit for 6 tricks - eg even something as minimal as

 

Axx

xx

xxxx

xxxx

 

has an excellent play unless they cash 5C.

 

I actually don't mind Tim's 2NT bid on reflection, but think that 3H is better.

[awm]

I think any bid but 2♥ or 3♥ is unlikely to work out. 2NT is not a good contract to play, and partner will not get you to hearts when it's right (whereas partner may get you to 3NT when it's right over a heart rebid). 2♣ manages to distort the shape without clarifying the values, and encourages partner to bid notrump with two or three small clubs.

 

As to choosing between levels of hearts, at imps nonvulnerable, we don't want to be in games that are much below 50% (I think the cutoff is 44 or so). If partner has doubleton heart, some sort of club stopper (at least length), and some quick tricks, then we can make a light 3NT when we manage to find the heart queen. The example hand given by the_hog (Axx xx xxxx xxxx) is a terrible 3NT -- you need to find hearts breaking with the queen onside and also have clubs break. Even if we add the two minor suit queens to the hand, I wouldn't call this a good game to be in. And if partner has a singleton heart things are substantially worse. I'd go with the 2♥ rebid here, although changing one of the small clubs to a diamond or changing vulnerability to red might convince me to bid three.

[the hog]

"The example hand given by the_hog (Axx xx xxxx xxxx) is a terrible 3NT -- you need to find hearts breaking with the queen onside and also have clubs break."

 

Do people even comprehend English on this bb?

I said even opposite something as weak as...., I did not say that that is a 1NT bid. Actually the odds of 3N rolling in on my example hand are about 41% - not unreasonable at Imps. Anything better, (and my example was not a NT bid anyway), makes the game far better.

 

Also note that I DID NOT BID 3NT!

 

Anyone who bids 2H has no understanding of hand evaluation whatsoever imo.

[Guest Jlall]

3H, good heart suit, extra values. Amazingly exactly what i have.

[awm]

Hmm game is 41%? Well, regardless of what I understand about hand evaluation, I do have some grasp of math. Seems to me that to make 3nt you need hearts to play for six tricks with small doubleton opposite AKJ9xx. With only one entry to dummy, surely the right play is to bang down the ace and then finesse for the queen. This works if the queen is singleton (2 ways that can happen) or the queen is doubleton onside (4 ways) or third onside (6 ways) for 12/32. So that's 3/8 or 37.5% for the hearts to behave. Now you also go down if clubs are 5-2 (most of the time, the suit might block). Even assuming LHO cannot find a doubleton club lead, you go down when LHO has five which is 21/128 or about one in six. So now we're down under 31.35% to make -- not even good at vulnerable.

 

Of course, like you said, this isn't a 1nt response, and as I mentioned adding the minor suit queens (or the diamond king) or such things to this hand doesn't make the game good. And if the 1NT bidder has a singleton heart it's going to be painful. And the main point of my post is that 2nt and 2 clubs are poor calls; after all, will responder know to bid hearts with Axx Qx Kxxxx xxx? I'd bid 3n over 1h-1n-2n with that hand without much thought and I believe most people would do the same.

 

I believe there's some value to playing making partscores and avoiding games that are low percentage. I suppose this makes me less of an optimist than a lot of people responding on this list, but I don't appreciate being told I know "nothing" about hand evaluation.

[sceptic]

Is this a serious question? 2H is about my 4th choice behind 3H, 2N and 2C. This hand evaluates at north of an 18 count.

 

Hi can you expalin how it evaluates to 18 please?

[geofspa]

Is this a serious question? 2H is about my 4th choice behind 3H, 2N and 2C. This hand evaluates at north of an 18 count.

 

 

Hi can you expalin how it evaluates to 18 please?

 

At the table and without a calculator I would probably assess this hand as a 17+ holding a good long suit and holding most of my HCP in aces and kings.

 

I like to use K&R evaluation tool which gives this hand 18.4 (better than my off the cuff evaluation)

 

I am not sure of protocols of posting web addresses here but the K&R evaluation tool is available online and if you would like the URL contact me, there is also a page that shows how hand assement is made by K&R

[the hog]

Hmmm! Isn't 3N in the refirgerator on the expected 4-4 C break? Who says you are going to get a c lead anyway? You may not like the comment, but seriously 2H is really poor.

[whereagles]

Expected 4-4 break? Why? A 5-3 is more likely by around 2-to-1. But indeed they might not lead one.

 

I'd bid 3H as well, though.

[Free]

3♥, decided in 0.4 seconds :rolleyes:

[bearmum]

3♥(I DO have 6 of them !!) -------- IMHO TOO strong for 2♥ and a minor bid at 2 level could get passed :rolleyes: if P is weak with 6 cards in your minor and 2 ♥

[Chamaco]

These kinds of hands are those for which the "Gazzilli relay" 2C was invented for: the in-between hands too good for a minimum rebid and too bad for a genuine GF reverse.

[nikos59]

3H but not very strong feelings against 2H

[flytoox]

My choice is between 3H and 2N. This hand has very good offense potential. 3H looks right after pd's 1N response.

 

A good question is what if the suit is spade rather than heart? I would consider 2N rebid then.

[pclayton]

Is this a serious question? 2H is about my 4th choice behind 3H, 2N and 2C. This hand evaluates at north of an 18 count.

 

Hi can you expalin how it evaluates to 18 please?

http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/knr.cgi

 

Kaplan and Ruben's evaluation calls this a 18.3.

 

I concede that this is evaluating the hand in a vacuum. When pard denies a 4 card fit, the usefulness of the hand goes down a little. However:

 

1. 3♥ gets us moving toward a good slam opposite some 3 card limit raises; especially if we have a tool for finding a stiff♣ or ♦;

 

2. It gets us to game opposite 2 cover cards and a doubleton heart.

 

3. It gets us to 3N opposite a meaty 9 or 10 count.

 

2♥ will frequently allow you to play exactly 2♥.

[luis]

3♥, if we are needing results I might try 3NT since it can be the right hand to try such a bid but I really prefer 3♥ as a very normal bid in most normal situations.

I don't think 2♥ is an option.

[inquiry]

This hand is problematic, as can seen by the above responses.

 

What I would respond, is quite different depending upon who I am playing with. I would respond 3♥ with most partners. The hand is just too good for a simple 2♥ bid.

 

However, playing with partners that use 2♣ as "drury"/NT/GF opposite a major opening (See Unloading 1NT forcing ), 3♥ goes right out the window. With these partners, 1NT DENIES three card support (direct raise or go through 2♣) and denies balanced type hand with good 10 hcp (go through 2♣ as well). With these partners, facing at most a doubleton heart, my desire to jump to3♥ has been greatly reduced. Here 2♥ is to be preferred. Partner will pass, bid a new suit with long weak junk, or occassionally raise to 3♥ to show doubleton and 9 to bad 10 hcp, or bid impossible 2♠ to show fair hand with at least one minor. I will have a good chance to compete correctly over each of these. And if partner passes? Well 2♥ is safer than 3♥ (playing unloaded 1NT forcing, there is ZERO chance of slam).

 

Ben

[han]

I also play 2C as drury or GF here, but I would still bid 3H, as it descibes my hand best, and game is still a lively possibility. (I also play that 3H shows about 14-16 HCP with 6+ good hearts, and no shortness, but I would have bid 3H anyway)

 

I think that Ron's comments in this thread are way off, and I also think that he doesn't understand his own English (Did you not say that game is excellent opposite Axx xx etc?). However, I do agree that 2H is a serious underbid, this is a very good hand.

[inquiry]

I also play 2C as drury or GF here, but I would still bid 3H, as it descibes my hand best, and game is still a lively possibility. (I also play that 3H shows about 14-16 HCP with 6+ good hearts, and no shortness, but I would have bid 3H anyway)

Since you use 2C as drury or GF, pull out the last 10 or 20 hands your partner responded 1NT with to 2♥ and see how they fair opposite this hand.

 

For me, what does 1H=1NT show?

 

For me, it denies 4♠ and 3♥, so partner is looking at most 5 major suit cards, and thus at least 8 minor suit cards.

 

For me, it denies the a fair balanced hand (so along with this 8 minor cards at a minimum, if he is balanced he has nine or less hcp.

 

Playing with Misho, here are some hands where we started 1H-1NT (thank goodness for Bridgebrowser where you can look for hands by partnership and specific auction)...

1. ♠xx ♥K ♦Qxxxxx ♣Axxx

2. ♠Txx ♥xx ♦AQJxx ♣xxx

3. ♠xxx ♥xx ♦Kxxx ♣Kxxx

4. ♠T82 ♥JT ♦QJxxxx ♣Kx

5. ♠xx ♥x ♦JT8xxx ♣QJxx

♠x ♥Qx ♦AJ85 ♣QJTxxx

♠QTx ♥xx ♦QT9xxx ♣Ax

♠xxx ♥x ♦Axxx ♣KQTxx (this one approaches my 2C then 2NT rebid in value)

♠AJx ♥x ♦xxxx ♣QJT9x

♠x ♥xx ♦Qxx ♣KJxxxxx

 

To see how each fits, you might have to change a chard here or there. The first one, swap heart king for the missing queen, giving you likely 6 heart tricks. Still with this change, how do you like a club lead (their longest and strongest suit?

 

The second one, you are of fthe entire club suit, and may have two clubs and three spade losers of the top, and you still have to avoid one more heart loser.

 

The third one you have two spades, and a club loser for sure, maybe another spade and antoher club, and somewhere between 0 and 3 heart losers.

 

The fourth one you can lose 2C, 3S, 1D and maybe a few hearts if all goes bad. If all goes well, 1C, 1D, 2S, and 0H

 

The fifth one, well.. you got the idea. When you unload forcing 1NT, the good hands your partner can have are gone away. On the sixth hand, misho raised my 2♥ rebid (I know he has at most 2 hearts)... so we sould get the after 2♥ rebid.

 

ben