another 5 level choice

[jdonn]

Double is beyond my comprehension. Can't partner easily be, Q-7th and void in the majors with any hand? How are we expecting to beat this? It just seems like a huge gamble that partner helps in clubs, or has a heart, neither of which I see any reason to believe.

 

I mean, if they ruffed a spade lead and claimed 6 would we be shocked? I wouldn't.

 

I think 5♠ is just normal. Our spades are so good and hearts so bad that this feels right no matter what his reason for bidding 4♠ was.

[Finch]

I agree with Jdonn and was surprised as PhilKing's vote for a double.

[zillahandp]

Nv equal leave the five level yo opps their suits not litting wee.

[zillahandp]

Can i repeat that sry, leave 5level to opps their suits not splitting well, p could well be trying to bounce them so he could overide me with the weak and long spade hands mentioned above, well done Phil!

[PhilKing]

Sorry, I just don't give "random BBO experts" that much respect.

 

Also, my "random BBO expert" partner will remove my double WAY more often than I would expect a regular partner to do, which is perfect for this hand.

[MrAce]

Double is beyond my comprehension. Can't partner easily be, Q-7th and void in the majors with any hand? How are we expecting to beat this? It just seems like a huge gamble that partner helps in clubs, or has a heart, neither of which I see any reason to believe.

 

This is why perhaps I shd have passed rather than dbl. Q7th/6th + void + 5♥ goes undoubled in front of pd = obvious 5♠ by partner to me. I am not gonna bid his hand. A non forcing pass of course.

Fwiw, I do not believe there is anything unexpected in my hand that justifies bidding 5♠ while there are many things that are unclear about what pd may hold. I think the fact that we are not in pass out seat is being overlooked.

 

Otoh, I am aware that there are also other hands w/o partner holding 6/7th ♥ bidding 5♠ can be winner. But I still think in this hand the person who needs to step up and decide should be partner, but just like Phil said, I also overlooked to the fact that pd is a random BBO expert, which comes with a variety of all skill levels.

 

Do you agree with the previous call 2♠?

I do.

[krhorneman]

Pass is definitely not forcing, imo. Pard has to bid 4c/d/h to set up a forcing pass. As I've promised 4 card support, even 4d by partner is showing a good hand and setting up a force. Pard doesn't rate to have a great hand here, as he is obviously short in hearts with likely extra spade length, but didn't make any noise on the way to game. I think it's close between pass and 5s, but 100% I think pass is not forcing. Given the form of scoring, the upside/downside seems to favor bidding. I would not consider double. One of the opponents is almost certainly short in spades, and I have way too much wasted there. I would have bid 2S originally and wouldn't really think about 3S. I have four card support, minimal HCP, and not a good first suit. The singleton isn't enough, I need about a queen more.

[PhilG007]

I'm pretty sure I would double, but I am far from sure I am right.

 

Double in haste,repent at leisure as I have done on more than one

occasion and got a big fat bottom for my trouble. More often than not

one opponent(or both) turn up with a void in ♠ The fact the opponents

have competed to the 5 level clearly shows they do not fear a ♠ lead.

It's wise to desist and hope declarer has 3 losers.

[crdshrk]

Partner went to 4S after the horrible 2S bid which severely undervalued the hand (first bid should have been a splinter of 4C, although I am ok with 2D also showing a limit raise+). So 5S should be a no brainer. Unless partner is a maniac, that terrible 2S bid probably cost a chance at slam.

[wyman]

What I'm seeing in this thread is that I should be expecting p to remove this X with poor hands way less frequently than I thought when I dbled.

 

Jdonn: I would have expected partner to pull for example with qxxxxxx and out, so while yes that's obviously a hand type he can hold, I didn't fail to dbl based on it.

 

Same, honestly with Mike's example 5053 4/5-count, on the theory that holding that hand, only I really know about my lack of defense and double fit, where partner has only partial info and should be expecting fewer spades and something more defensive (than zero defense) on average.

 

Based on partner not bidding 4D to help out the cause, I'd be expecting a shape more like 5035, and Qxxxx / void / Kxx / Axxxx makes more sense for a 4S bid than a random 4-count with that shape.

 

What this fails to do is thinking hard about hands the opps can hold, but I think some are consistent enough, e.g.,

 

x / KQJxx / x / KQJxxx and xxx/Axxx/QJxxx/x

 

Maybe both are a little more balanced since rho dbled instead of 2n but you get the idea.(and these seem like pretty much the nuts, I think they can hold worse cards/shape)

[krhorneman]

Partner went to 4S after the horrible 2S bid which severely undervalued the hand (first bid should have been a splinter of 4C, although I am ok with 2D also showing a limit raise+). So 5S should be a no brainer. Unless partner is a maniac, that terrible 2S bid probably cost a chance at slam.

 

I think maybe you misread the bidding. You opened the hand 1D, so no cue bid showing limit plus available.

[KurtGodel]

I agree with Jdonn and was surprised as PhilKing's vote for a double.

Me too.

[billw55]

What I'm seeing in this thread is that I should be expecting p to remove this X with poor hands way less frequently than I thought when I dbled.

 

Jdonn: I would have expected partner to pull for example with qxxxxxx and out, so while yes that's obviously a hand type he can hold, I didn't fail to dbl based on it.

This was my line of thinking at the table: I have good defense - two aces and four trumps to the ten - so I double, relying on partner to pull with a preemptive type hand, and sit for it with some defense.

 

The full deal was:

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sakj9ht842da976c9&w=sqt8hk653dk5ck754&n=s765432hdjt32caq2&e=shaqj97dq84cjt863&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1dp1sd2s3h4s5hdppp]500|400[/hv]

 

Nobody appears to be insane.

 

My double somewhat fortunately produced +300, while 5♠ was making, so this was not a success, but not a disaster either. We were the only pair defending: 11 pairs played in 4♠, two in 5♠, and two went off in 5♦. Of the 13 pairs that played in spades, 8 made 11 tricks and 5 made 10 tricks. At both tables where 5♠ was bid, south doubled 5♥ directly and north pulled. Not sure what to make of all that, except maybe that the EW field was a little timid.

 

Overall it seems that bidding on is better.