asking for trouble

[manudude03]

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn|manudude03,~~M3889fik,~~M633pykl,~~M3517i4x|st%7C%7Cmd%7C3S579JQAH67TJD3C3J%2CS6KH24QKAD28JQC59%2CS4H5D459KAC478QKA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%2029%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C1C%7Can%7CMinor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20%21C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7COne%20over%20one%20--%204%2B%20%21S%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7CTwo%20suit%20takeout%20--%205-%20%21C%3B%204%2B%20%21D%3B%204%2B%20%21H%3B%205-%20%21S%3B%2012%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7COpener%20reverse%20--%205%2B%20%21C%3B%204%2B%20%21D%3B%203-%20%21S%3B%2021-%20HCP%3B%2018-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3S%7Can%7C6%2B%20%21S%3B%209%2B%20HCP%3B%20forcing%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7CTakeout%20double%20--%205-%20%21C%3B%204%2B%20%21D%3B%204%2B%20%21H%3B%205-%20%21S%3B%2016%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4D%7Can%7C4%2B%20%21D%3B%208-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C5%2B%20%21C%3B%201-%20%21S%3B%2021-%20HCP%3B%20biddable%20%21D%3B%2018-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CHQ%7C]399|300[/hv]

 

So, N/S have an established GF, and West still wants to make a t/o double? Also, why did East bid 4D which had already been bid instead of 4H which hadn't. Not that is is much better.

[steve2005]

Gib actually has it's 16 points need to make second X by Gib's system. But how can it be a takeout double, only one unbid suit. If Gib wants to play in ♥ should just bid 4♥ but Gib probably needs 30 pts to make such a crazy bid but takeout double is safe according to Gib.

[johnu]

Robot W was actually a little lucky to find partner with such a suitable hand (if zero points can be a good hand).

[1eyedjack]

Unconvinced.

 

I think West can be criticised for not passing, but if he is going to act I think that X is better than 4H.

 

4H unilaterally deprives East of the option of defending 3SX, and for all that he has a 5th Heart it is not the shapeliest hand.

[johnu]

Unconvinced.

 

I think West can be criticised for not passing, but if he is going to act I think that X is better than 4H.

 

4H unilaterally deprives East of the option of defending 3SX, and for all that he has a 5th Heart it is not the shapeliest hand.

 

Unbelievable.

 

Maybe double is better than 4♥, but even on the nige1 scale, both should score 0 (assuming minus scores aren't usually allowed).

[1eyedjack]

I agree. I only commented on the relative merits of double and 4H given that someone expressed a preference for 4H between the two (or at least with sufficient extra strength as to justify some action other than passing). Whether either action other than pass justifies a Nige1 score of greater than zero, presumably rounded to a whole number, and its credibility, is of little interest to me. Either way, to opine that a preference for X over 4H is "unbelievable" and then immediately, in the next breath, to acknowledge that "maybe" it is better seems inconsistent.

[johnu]

You misinterpreted. Unbelievable was my description of West stepping back into a live, game forcing auction at the 3+ level with no shape and diamonds stacked behind, and partner is marked with a yarborough or near yarborough. Both double and 4♥ are hopeless bids and debating which one is worse is like debating whether bad breath or body odor is worse.

[cloa513]

You misinterpreted. Unbelievable was my description of West stepping back into a live, game forcing auction at the 3+ level with no shape and diamonds stacked behind, and partner is marked with a yarborough or near yarborough. Both double and 4♥ are hopeless bids and debating which one is worse is like debating whether bad breath or body odor is worse.

Yes its insane to enter a game force auction with anything less than very extreme shape. And yet GIB will not sacrifice. Play for free- I open 1♦ vulnerable, GIB bids 2NT (unusual)nonvulnerable, GIB partner cues 3♣, GIB responder holding five clubs including the KQJxx and 5422 shape bids 4C. I raise to 4D and partner pulls to game. 2NT held 6 clubs to A, A of diamonds, K of hearts with 5. 5 ♦contract is solid. 6♣ contract is only two down.